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Forgot to add - has he admitted to anything specific that made him realize what he'd done and turn around?


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Originally Posted By: Maika
Blu - what specifically do you think had a cumulative effect from Sandi's rules? I don't mean like rule # 3 or #4, but in general. What do you think made him turn around? You might've answered this at some point, but I don't remember.

I know that by asking this question, there will be a massive rush of people thinking that there was some specific thing that you did that turned things around - newbies, don't get sucked like that. We all know this is complex and not one specific thing might've made the difference.

I am curious because you're right, there is no measuring stick right now that can provide answers in the moment.


I am not sure I answered this in much detail. Maybe it would help if I did? There are some things that are similar and also different about all of our sitches. Important to note, is that my H was not a traditional Walkaway (WAS) but was completely Wayward (WS) and deep in the A fog. One thing that I tell people, is that while the A feels like the worst/painful betrayal, I think they actually may be more likely to return to the M later when compared to the WAS. Of course this isn't a science, but when you think about it, the WAS has been planning to leave for some time and are not comparing you to someone else. The WS is running off to fantasyland and inevitably that will come crashing down.

This is important in my sitch because my H never had the intention of leaving initially when the EA got started. He didn't want a D and he didn't want our family broken up. He got in over his head with the "friendship" with OW and then everything blew up, they got caught, and I was a mad (insane) woman! So after a lot of drama and push-pull, I kicked him to the curb. Instead of him coming crying/begging back (which I thought would happen) he ran straight to her. She happily left her H and was all in (even wanted to move in together and blend our families and screw up our kids). The reason this is so important is because he on some level knew he was chasing something very unrealistic, he had a lot of guilt that he expressed all along, and of course that R soon became a nightmare for him.

Mostly, I want to tell people that I think the main reason my H came back had nothing to do with my actions and my DBing. But, he also didn't come back until I started doing it. It is both. I want people to see that because we have a lot less control than we think we do. For my H, that A had to die a natural death. I really don't think I had much influence. Fortunately, in our case, OW was incredibly shallow, desperate, and quite unattractive ;-) I mean what woman goes after their friends H and then leaves her H and kids for him? Yes, he did the same thing, but the amount of grooming and energy she put into it was really over the top. He sees that now too.

In the beginning I was so emotional, furious and lashed out left and right. Then cried and begged. I did this on/off for several months. So when I finally started following Sandi's rules that was 1 big 180 in itself. He did try and leave in the middle and says he wanted to come back, but didn't know how. He cut her off for several weeks upon my request. But I forced him at that point. He says he thought I couldn't forgive him. But he also ran right back to her. He was a mess. That has been hard to believe -- that he wanted to come back, but didn't; know how -- but he has said that consistently for 3 years. So after he left me again, and I started to calm down a bit and get better at following the rules, he could no longer point fingers at me and blame me, and so he had to start being more accountable for his own actions. Eventually he couldn't blame me for making things hard because I stopped doing that completely.

As I got better at DBing, he started to increase his fear of losing me. When I broke the rules, threatened D, or lashed out, he just sort of backed off more and pulled away. When he saw me moving on with my life, not paying attention to him, and when I didn't show him a person he was scared of, he really second guessed himself the most. I started to make more plans with friends, kept myself busy, didn't initiate any contact, and even started to plan a life without him, he soon became afraid he could never have me back. This also forced him to look at why he left if he still cared so much about losing me. He could no longer make sense of that. This is why the light house story resonates with me; I had to calm the F down and learn to do that.

Originally Posted By: Maika
Forgot to add - has he admitted to anything specific that made him realize what he'd done and turn around?


One thing my H has always said is that while he was with OW, it felt wrong. He felt guilty, it wasn't comfortable, and he felt stuck. He says he felt as if he had made this choice and needed to follow through. He also felt low about himself and she was a person that accepted him for who he was (a liar and cheater. lol). He says he would miss times we had together and our family and that what we had had was something real. The R with her was an A and felt as such. He just felt like a loser that messed up in his life and felt stuck with this bad decision.

The moment that stands out in his mind was a very simple conversation we had about the dog. It was a moment that just slapped him into reality and reminded him of what used to be our every day normal life. He missed that. He missed it more and more as I backed off, detached, and started to move on without him. So after 10 months, I got better at following the rules and his A was pretty much dead in his mind.

One thing my H always makes a point of is that I was not his plan B. Now we have fought over this (and all of the above stuff that seemed liked BS to me) but he holds his position firmly. The R with OW did not drastically change -- fall apart -- and then he ran back because of that. He actively chose to leave it. He will stand firm that he chose to leave her and wanted me back. This has been hard for me to understand because I see it that it had to die a natural death. I think his position is that it wasn't ever real, it was fantasy. She wanted so much more than he ever did; to bring families together, to live together, and to pursue a future. He more so saw her as the only friend that cared about him after he ruined his M and life. The attraction and excitement had fizzled out quickly for him when the reality of losing his family had set in.

That was a lot. I think it's easier to answer more specific questions. I can certainly ask him now too.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Blu,

How long did it take for your trust to return or has it fully returned.

Are you and your H closer now?

Is there any info you can provide about how to make it thru recon?

My W has made some of the same statements as your H after she decided to stay in the M.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Thanks Blu for the response. I feel like a major factor was your H feeling massive loss. And maybe he would've felt it with or without DB, but with you DBing, it magnified it as he could see how you were moving on with your life. And this sense of loss cannot be engineered.


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Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Blu,

How long did it take for your trust to return or has it fully returned.

Are you and your H closer now?

Is there any info you can provide about how to make it thru recon?

My W has made some of the same statements as your H after she decided to stay in the M.



JJ, thanks for replying. I will try and answer the best I can, but these questions are hard. I think it's good for me to think about them more tho, and writing them out helps me process too.

How long did it take for trust and has it fully returned?

I trusted right away that when he came back it was genuine, but I will never fully trust him or anyone again. I said fully because I now know that anyone can be dishonest and hurt us. The only 100% trust I have is for myself, and even that isn't consistent. When my H ended his A and came back, I could tell it was real. That is why I tell people that they will know intuitively. I think our instincts are strong, even if we don't understand why. So in a strange way, I trusted him initially. I could feel he was back and vulnerable. I could tell that he knew he made a terrible mistake, was remorseful, and was committed to changing. And, his actions were consistent with his words on a daily basis. He let his guard down fully, he offered complete transparency, and he really looked at his part. I think he said he was sorry about 20 times a day. I could just feel that he was trustworthy. And what I learned after BD, was to trust my instincts. So the trust was there and has remained there. The hardest part for me, has been the forgiveness.

Are we closer now?

That is a hard question to answer. I would say no, we are not. The closeness we had for so many years was an intimacy that we all crave. Maybe some would say we were suspended in a honeymoon period for 10-15 years? I don't know, but it felt good. I was so attached to this man and he could do no wrong in my eyes. I think that's why D rates are so high; we run to those feel good feelings and romance, the newness. Now, things are different. I see him as a good man, but one that is human and capable of mistakes. Big, giant, huge mistakes. But I also see a very strong character in him, because he has owned those mistakes. He has looked at himself and been committed to changing. He is stronger, more confident, listens and makes adjustments, and far more than most of my friends' partners. Not everyone can do that and I respect that about him, it shows integrity. I also think the silver lining in this was that it forced me to look harder at myself too. I have made some good changes too. So I would not say that we are "closer" (not yet anyhow), but I would say that our M is more genuine now, it's more solid.

How to make it thru recon?

I think it takes two people that are committed to making it work and that really mean that. Both people have to be willing to look inside of themselves and their history (which can be really painful), and be willing to change. It is hard to change all those habits that we have adopted in life, but it can be done. I also think both people have to accept that it takes a long time and learn patience. The more damage that was done, the longer it takes. The spouse that had the A and/or left has to be willing to accept the fallout of that. They have to be patient, demonstrate compassion, and they also have to accept that they may not get forgiveness from their S. My H has had to learn to forgive himself and not wait for mine. I am still working, or deciding, on that....

The betrayed S has different challenges. Even if we have been wronged, we cannot only see ourselves as a victim. We have to learn to understand how this happened and have compassion for someone that betrayed us. That is very difficult. We also have to look inside and be committed to changing. We also need to be patient and know that this can take a long time. Once I accepted that there is chance that this may never work -- like I did when I decided to leave him last fall -- I also freed myself up to see him for who he actually is now. There are so many things I like about him more now than who he was before. I never, ever thought my H was capable of this before, I was blinded by my love for him. However, today, I see a man that is proving on his own he doesn't want to hurt me and that he values our M and family, not because we are M and in love, but because this is what he wants in life.


JJ, I'll check out your threads too, I wish you guys the best!

Maika, I think you are right. You cannot engineer the loss. My H certainly felt the loss on his own right away. I just didn't have the strength to pathe the way. Life was so hard when I lost my father, my H's beatryal, and my teen spiraling out of control. I was viscous to H, so he stayed back for a long, long time. I didn't have a rosey picnic, I had a fire breathing dragon on the wrong side of the draw bridge!

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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BLU,

I really appreciate the info.

It amazes me that thru all the damage beauty can be had. After my wife and I recon, I was happy, then after a few months, I stop wanting to be in the M. I couldn't get pass the betrayal. I start to feel like she didn't deserve me. But she stuck by me thru all my pain. The other honesty, I was a truly sh!tty husband and father and I have to live with that as well. I treated her like deal and I sometimes wonder why she decided to come back to me after I treated her so bad and ahe wonder as well.

I also know now that I truly love her, before last summer I wonder if I did.

BLU, I'm glad you have stayed around. The recon thread is dead.

Can you answer, why you think my W stayed?

Did your husband and you go to any Marraige retreats, if so did they help?


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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joejoe, thank you for posting. I have read your thread in piecing and so I will post to you there!

I'm sorry it has taken so long to post. As I have said before, while I enjoy reading/posting here, I also recognize that it can keep me held back a bit. I do still frequent here several times a week and follow many of you. My strongest advice to all of you in the throws of it, would be to challenge yourselves to actually follow the advice. The most simple, yet hardest thing to do! I read a lot of excuses and justifications, but remember it only keeps you stuck. You really have to push yourself out of your comfort zone to GAL, 180, and let them go.

I am not sure what to update with. Most days I go about my routines and the "drama" of my sitch has faded. I had to see XOW at a kids event recently, and that was a strange and slightly surreal experience. These are the kids milestones that we had planned (or assumed) we would all share together over the years. It's hard to share much because her XH reads here and my H could potentially. I will say, I am starting to pity her more, because of the choices she made, how much she has lost, and her overall character. Not sure how much self awareness she has, but I personally would not want to show up at these events knowing that I was a sleazy OW and ruined my Rs with friends (that were also present there) .... so yeah, obvi I still have the bitterness ...

Things with H are okay. Not much new to report. He is very helpful and supportive of our home and family, more so than a lot of my friends partners. I also have noticed how much he listens and hears me now compared to pre-BD. When I tell him something I don't agree with or need, he listens, validates makes the adjustment. Honestly, even without this site, he is better at following the rules than I have ever been. I cannot lie and say that I have fully forgiven him and that my heart is healed. I do see more so now tho, that those answers are within me. I have a lot of work to do.

Most of my days are filled with the same; work, kids activities, time with family and friends, and trying to carve out my own time. I feel like I am still looking for something, but I don't know what. I am trying to get better at healthy activities that facilitate soul searching, as opposed to the same habits and then negative thinking, ie "you should do more of this, or less of this, or this isn't good enough, etc." I often think I am my own worst enemy!

Please feel free to comment or ask questions. I will work on a better response time! Joejoe, I will get back to you on your thread today :-)

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Blu,

Thanks. I truly appreciate it. I lurk around here often as well. But it's hard, because I'm filled with the pain of the LBS on their sitch. But I also like to see the progress of the LBS.

I know the feeling you are describing about feeling like you are missing something or searching for the missing piece.

I'm always trying to not say or do the wrong thing and so is my wife. She seems to be going on like life will be great.

Thanks BLU once again.

It's also impactful that you can see the OW life unfolding in front of you. You are strong person to show up to an event with her there and be calm. Great job.

So OW life is Sh!t now! Wow!


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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BLU!!!!!!!!!!

Just sending love and hugs!!!


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M, hey, yo! Thank you. Back at ya!

joejoe, I am headed to your thread soon!

And just to clarify, I rarely see XOW and it had been over a year. Our kids are school friends, otherwise I have no contact with her. I happened to see her at this event out of the corner of my eye. I was with a group of friends and she waited off to the side for me to leave and then approached them. Recall, we used to have a circle of friends and that all got busted up when BD happened. I don't think I ever shared the details of the story, it's just too much drama to even go there!

So after approaching my friends, they had a brief hello, and then went on their way. We got together for dinner that evening, as we still do. They are civil with her, but it's still awkward for them. Most likely for her too. These were the milestones that we shared as families and all assumed we would over the years. Now she is the black sheep.

So no, I would not say her life is unfolding in front of me at all. We do have some social media friends in common and they will occasionally (rarely) tell me what she is up to. I really don't care, because I know enough about her and her character as it is. When I say that I pity her for her choices/loss, I am referring to the overall sitch. She had a wonderful H and kids and she destroyed her family. This A also broke up our circle of friends, which had an additional impact on all the kids, and her friendships consequentially fell apart. She also did not (to my knowledge) express much remorse or responsibility for the damage she has caused. She just moved on to the next man and his kids. So either she lives with shame for what she did or possibly worse, she lives in denial as to her lack of integrity. Either way, I find myself pitying her when times these events come up and I am forced to think about her.

My husband was as much in the wrong as her, so I don't deny that. The difference is, he has taken responsibility for his part, demonstrated remorse and change, and he did right by his family. Sadly, he still shoulders a burden of guilt. That is just another consequence that cannot be undone. Forgiveness takes time. Even tho the feelings are painful for him, he has also allowed them to motivate positive changes and growth. I have no idea where she is at in her process, so perhaps I am wrong, but from what I have heard about her, she has not changed much.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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