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Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: sandi2] #2786268
04/22/18 03:47 AM
04/22/18 03:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
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betheoa Offline OP
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betheoa  Offline OP
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Hi Sandi and others, i have been reading for a wail.

There was nothing new under the sun...around me.
My WW, try be nice, ask me to go out of the house have a walk or do exercise on the grass, so i agreed but not show any emotional highs...because i know why she do this ...she is not sure where i am, regarding her, and she temp check constantly, manipulate and try to put me in argument, i avoid any attempts to be succeed in to argument, or show i am commuted to her in long term. Of course i am not rood, resist any of my temptation to tell her, this or that (talk about what is wrong). I just ignore her when she try to be nasty or play pity/blame game and leave whit smile when she try to changing me in some why.

Last week she contact OM2 2 time chat for a wail, the stop contact him. She try to slow things down with me, but may be there some tension between WW and OM2.
Last week there is not any shows of not respect in front of me.

But....
This week we walk to the place where is out other flat, several times, just walk, she constantly talk about how beautiful and nice i "OUR" flat, that we pickup the best flat and so on, talk about how we can buy another flat, and other schemes how we can do more investments, how this will be very good for the kids and so on.
I listen to her, but not agreed to do nothing, just validate her as much as possible, whiteout agree to nothing.
I thought ...Should i talk with her, what she have to do in order to proceed whit her wishes about new investments...the i felt that i already told her how i will not live, so she should do the thinking and asking by her self not initiate by me.

Already WW several times, to many people, she talk that she thinks to start the investment without my knowing (if i refuse to do it, when she ask for last time - she wait to see what will be the price - if it is as low as she wont, she will book the new flat, and when the time comes she will put me in stuck situation- something like to get pregnant) - So my question how to address this, i our last argument she was telling me that she saved money to book the flat to surprise me, so o know this from her - but she talk this to almost every one around her, that is disrespect and rebellion.

So if she start talking about this - should i remind her, about i am going to leave after 2-3 months, and is we not going in same direction we should not do any investment together?

Quote:
This is no threat...... when you are dropping her. She told you this to manipulate you and keep you upset. It stops working to push your buttons when you don't get upset.
Yes, i us to handle my self very well, last times. In the past i thought i must react in some way, now if i am truly "drop the rope", i have to be calm about this, not funny or happy, but calm and collected. Of course it is difficult to listen how she have to found other men to care about her (because i will left her), my heart broke, because more then 5 years she did not behave with me as woman even as wife, but are willing (have to do), because i will not provide to her. I see some very nasty/punishing behavior in this. How ever, if she is able to be woman to other man, well lets be (she clime that i kill her as woman, so she will never fill love and trust to any one, as well as be sexual with any one), i believed this for 3 years after my confession about my infidelity, but after her crush to OM 1 and now to OM2, i do not believe. That is her filings thoughts about me, so if she think that i will provide to her, and take her emotional need from elsewhere - i will not do it.

Quote:
It's okay. You will get better when you realize you deserve more respect.

Of course, i hope this to be soon. I just hope to be calm and collected, not to be aggressive (NGS)

Quote:
Quote:
This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.

If it is late, you don't have to leave, if you are not full of anger.

I am really capable to handle my self very well, my big struggles are when i am not sure (what to do), if i must show dissatisfaction or be calm and collected, that is my struggles, because of this i ask so many questions to you, to be ready how to behave when the time comes.

Quote:
You will conquer these issues. How do I know? B/c you are doing what you must do, in spite of being afraid. The cowardly man feels fear and lets it paralyze him. The brave man feels fear and does what he must do. In my opinion, you are overcoming lies that has captured your mind for a long time. You listened to lies whisper in your ear about Betheoa. Don't let the lies defeat you any longer. Believe in the man you truly are.

Thanks Sani for the sportive words...i do not buy the lies, the lies are barometer for me if she come to M or not. In my opinion if she start to do any work on her, this will be the firs one..

So i really need support here, what to do when she behave as nothing is changed..talk about future plans about new investment...how/when i worn her about not to do the stupidity to book this new investment when i do not agreed on, because in this case she/we will loos money (if i do not support the investment- booking price will be lost-it is around 2 moths of he salary)

So any thoughts an suggestion are welcome.
I feel very down this week, limbo is difficult place to live, i am trying to survive this by taking day by day. In my interaction i am easy going, not doing any pursuing, she is the one pursuit me (yesterday she ask to massage her back - i did for awhile), but as by guard is up all the time, i see every thing as manipulation and temp check.

so ...will write soon.

P.S. last week, i have red a lot, here in the forum, so i have question ....my WW have not real EA (where they, say i love you, or consider planes to live together in future and things like this), but my WW have all signs to be/where in limerance with OM1 and OM2, as well as flirting with OM2 (by chat), with OM1 i do not have Intel if there was flirting as with OM2. So my question is ..is this change something in my approach to the situation..or i must behave like she is full blown WW.
hugs


Me39
W 41
T18 M12

D8
S10

I was WH 2011
WAW from 2012
WW from 2016
OM1 2016 (just friends) limerance
OM2 2017 (just friends) limerance

Full blown EA - not yet confirmed
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: betheoa] #2786278
04/22/18 04:55 AM
04/22/18 04:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Posts: 18,086
You are leaving your W b/c she is disrespectful to you, her H. She lies, schemes, deceives, refuses you sex, and flirts and has EA with OM. Her treatment to you is horrible, and she laughs behind your back. It does not really matter whether or not she has said ILY to OM.........it is still an emotional affair.


I did not know your W knew about the flat. So, she believes both of you will live in the new flat? Does your W have any legal hold on it? My advice is to make sure she cannot snatch it from you, when she realizes you are leaving.

Quote:
Already WW several times, to many people, she talk that she thinks to start the investment without my knowing (if i refuse to do it, when she ask for last time - she wait to see what will be the price - if it is as low as she wont, she will book the new flat, and when the time comes she will put me in stuck situation- something like to get pregnant) - So my question how to address this, i our last argument she was telling me that she saved money to book the flat to surprise me, so o know this from her - but she talk this to almost every one around her, that is disrespect and rebellion.


I am confused and don't understand. What do you mean "book" the flat?

How could she put you in a stuck situation? If you aren't having sex with her, she can't get pregnant with your child.

This is a situation you need advice from your lawyer or financial officer. I cannot give advice about those matters.

((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: sandi2] #2786280
04/22/18 05:39 AM
04/22/18 05:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
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betheoa Offline OP
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betheoa  Offline OP
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Quote:
I did not know your W knew about the flat. So, she believes both of you will live in the new flat? Does your W have any legal hold on it? My advice is to make sure she cannot snatch it from you, when she realizes you are leaving.


This apartment were we bought 2 years ago, we have two flat. Last argument i told i will move there when is ready to living here.

Quote:
I am confused and don't understand. What do you mean "book" the flat?


I am talking about she will reserve the apartment by paying some money in advance, to take lower price. So if she do this, we will have to pay for this flat in long term, or we will loose this "book" money. About pregnant this is joke. I wanted to say i will be in situation that her move is done (booking the flat for baying) so i have to accept or to loose money.
is it more clear now?
Sorry about my English


Me39
W 41
T18 M12

D8
S10

I was WH 2011
WAW from 2012
WW from 2016
OM1 2016 (just friends) limerance
OM2 2017 (just friends) limerance

Full blown EA - not yet confirmed
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: betheoa] #2786285
04/22/18 06:45 AM
04/22/18 06:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Okay, yes it's more clear. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: betheoa] #2787975
05/03/18 04:31 AM
05/03/18 04:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
Hope you are okay. Can you give us an update?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: sandi2] #2788275
05/04/18 08:51 PM
05/04/18 08:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
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betheoa Offline OP
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betheoa  Offline OP
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Posts: 53
Quote:
Hope you are okay


OMG Sandi, every time when i felt on the bottom, think about post here to have your support (but did not yet wrote here in the forum, because i am not in tact of my emotion and thoughts), and you come here and say "Hi", you are so much to me.
I felt so much worm about, there is some one who are interested/care in your well being, without anything in return.

Quote:
Can you give us an update?

yes there is a lot of update, and i am going to divide to different post:
1. Facts (what has happened - as objective as possible).
2. My feelings, thoughts and vents.
3. My further plans, i will ask questions, about how to proceed.

I feel blessed to have you Sandi.
To be continuation...


Me39
W 41
T18 M12

D8
S10

I was WH 2011
WAW from 2012
WW from 2016
OM1 2016 (just friends) limerance
OM2 2017 (just friends) limerance

Full blown EA - not yet confirmed
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: sandi2] #2788286
05/05/18 01:25 AM
05/05/18 01:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
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betheoa Offline OP
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betheoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
Quote:
yes there is a lot of update, and i am going to divide to different post:
1. Facts (what has happened - as objective as possible).


As you write in my lasts post, we have been in civil interaction, on daily bases. I have capt be aloof, and no show any pursuit. After WW last chat with OM2 (i have wrote about) there was NC between them (NC was about 20 days NC between WW and OM2), it is look like Pursuit / distancing game between them. Normally my WW can resist 3-4 days without NC, then initiate. Sometime OM2 initiate contact, the most of the cases OM2 initiate contact when it is time to haircut (normally each 14 days). There was/is situation when OM2 initiate contacts, when my WW play aloof.
So during those 20 days, i was starting to relax, emotionally slide back (hope UP), but did not show. I accept her invitations about walk around our block, when several times to the place were is our new flat. Each time we were to our new flat place, she was talking about how nice the flat it is, how we should buy another flat,....and thing like this. I just listen, be very aloof, validate but not agree i am going to have plans with her, buying new flat.
We also did exercise (material art) with the kids and/or only two of use in front of the block.
My approach to her was like annoying sister.
During those 20 days she try to bully/disrespect me in front of the kids, or alone, i call her writhe there 90% of the time, 10% just ignore.
She tried several time to bite me, involve in arguments, i ignore her.

There was several times, when we were with some neighbors at the evenings, her approach to me was very friendly. She did not try to disrespects/joke on me in front of the others (like last summer). When she start to not pay attention that i am there, i just left to walk around, and she start to looking about me.

My observation show, that when i become funny with others man/woman and especially other woman's, she become very curios, and start showing i an her man, body language or/and in conversation. She become very jealousy when some one appreciate me or/and show i have some value/skills.

During thous days, whit OM2 so much in the picture she look for my company/attention. There was not calls from my side, and few from her. She had some conversation with her friends, about how she want to invest in new flat and i am agents that, how she think to invest without my knowledge/agreement, and after 6-12months when the real payment will become, i will agreed as post fact.

So that i more or less, the good part.
because i know OM2 come to her each 14 days (haircut), i start to think when it would happened. OM2 become late with 6 days (so i have started to think, that my WW was setting some end of contact with OM2), smile but not.
The good think was, this is not for first time so i do not bring much hope about WW starts do the work.
4 days ago,OM2 FB her, about haircut for the next day. I happened next to me, so she felt that i know they texts. It was in the evening, we were smoking on the balcony, i shut down my self, she try to small talk, but i did not engage (just answer yes/no). I observe her body language, so she was worried/thing (she was know what is suppose to happened next days). This day we both had free day, we spend a good pleasant day, until OM2 text.

Next day, i had free day she had to go on work. I was known she will met OM2, she was suspect that i knew. I did not wand to see her how she will, make her beautiful, put a dress and all other make up thinks for OM2. Write after i wake up, i peeper my self for leaving (go to place from where i can take very good natural water for drinking, put in bottles and took at home).
WW - ask me am i go out,
me- sad to take water.
WW -ask why so early
me-well be hotter later
WW-why do not take the kids
me-ask the kids and they prefer to stay at home

Then, i said bey and left.

Later, OM2 was with her, she pompously made free 2-3 hours, after OM2 coming, to have time to be/talk with him. (she loos money, when she do this). There conversation, was not so much flirty as their FB chat talk about/her/his life/dais/events. I did not cover to listen all of it, but she mention it me only two times, she talk about her marital art exam (it will happened soon) and in relation of this, she talk about me. He ask her, am i steal go to exercise, she said yes, OM2 told her that he thought i will quit after a wail (so here i found out that she told him, that i join in this exercise, in attempt to control her).
To be frank - that is true. I become exercise with her and the kids, because of being needy to be next to her all the time. Later i start enjoying the sport, and become better and better.
When they talk about, what she will do next days, she said that will stay at home and rest, told him she do not know am I will be there (that i have a lot of work-and told him about my involvement in a big project at work).
So at the evening of this day, OM start FB chat with her, the chat was flirty, about going together, here and there, to take her on sea beach, and think like this. It looks like they were make planes, on the line between make planes / seeing what other side will agreed. Here i have to say that there is huge difference how they interact in presents and when they FB chat.
About this chat, she could be not so flirty, known i am at home and she left her FB open on her PC, the pc is in the milled of our living room, so there is 100% chance to me seeing what they chat.

After OM2 left after 3 hours talk with her, she called me.
She ask what i am doing.I told her - do things around
She ask about the kids, i was in hurry to cut the convo. She felt it. In fact their chat become later after she call me.

After her chat, i was devastated, angry all my buttons was pushed. I start thinking to write in the forum, but there was no time some one to answer me. So i started to read, in hope to found what to do, when she come home.
I was in hurry to handle my self how to handle the evening and the near future.

There was not so much option, looking in the past months. She know that i will not live like this any more, and ...nothing different. So i decide to live, when she come home after work. When she come home i go out (because of the kids i had to wait for her), we met on the stairs in front of the block, i was talking on the phone (work related):
WW ask if there is emergency at work so i need to leave,
Me - i told her that i am going out (for a walk),
WW - she told to wait for her to change the clothes, and go out together, spend time with some neighbors out there. (her face shown some worries
Me - I answer he that i do not wont, turn and left (her face become even more worried)

So i spend 5 hours until 1 am, in the car reading the forum, and thinking what to do. I went home, she was asleep.
In the morning, after my coffee, i left for work. She did not talk to me, me either. When i left (50 min earlier), i did not say bey.
When i go back from work, i sow she continuous chat with OM2 flirt even more hard, about traveling with him (emotionally) for now, as she said.
So i have decide to not go home, to found place to stay until my flat will be ready for living there (2-3 months from now). I have call to my friend and ask him, for help to found the place to stay.
At the evening i relay GAL for little with him. There is 2 nights i did not go home. Yesterday i call my kids, to see haw are they, when they ask if i come home, i answer i have work to do, and i do not know when (later i will ask, what to tel the kids)
There is not contact between me and ww since i left.

Yesterday, WW talk to her GF, about WW situation.
WW told her that she suspect me to having OW, that she do not believe me when i told her i have to stay at work (last time when i do not come home, 2 week ago - when she went out with OM2 to eat cake) - i did not told her i stay at work, i told her i do not want to be home, and will go home when the kids are there (they were at her parents).
So yesterday i told i am at work, to the kids not to her.
She admit to her GF, the she start this flirting and contentious as rebellion on me. WW told that last year, when OM2, gave her flowers for her birthday, WW ask to put this flower in the ground in front of our block (at this time i did not know, this flowers were from OM2), i helped her and look after for this flowers. So the flower start to grow, but suddenly they died.
WW told to her GF, that she suspect me to kill the flowers, i fell so much resentment, and because of this she starts this flirty (or whatever behavior with OM2), and will not give up.
Then WW told, her that, i punish her with my behavior, not come home (because of her interaction with him). WW show some from the FB chat, and told her that this was push my button and i punish her for that. WW told her GF, that there is nothing, just flirt, and if she wanted to do something she will hide, told her that she did not hide this from me from the begging. Of course, she did not told her about everything, just put me in controlling husband state, as well as i am cheating to punish her.

The last i heard from their convo was, that my wife told GF, that WW was telling me 2 moth ago, if i need reason to leave her, she will do PA with some one (to be easy for me), because her relation with OM2, is only friends, with whom she flirt for fun.

I will continuous in the next post.
I feel i need guidance, i need support from now one very much. I need advice how to handle the situations from now one. So place check on me often.
At the moment i do not have any hope about WW go out of the fog. There is all she need disrespect, resentment, rebellion and OM2.
Soon i waiting ww to stars call/text me, to guild trip me, threatening me, manipulating me. So i will need your help how to handle the things.

In the next posts i will write how i feel now, and some possible scenarios/situations/questions what to do. There is pattern in WW behavior, so i can predict some actions from her.
Sandi i need you, very much now.


Me39
W 41
T18 M12

D8
S10

I was WH 2011
WAW from 2012
WW from 2016
OM1 2016 (just friends) limerance
OM2 2017 (just friends) limerance

Full blown EA - not yet confirmed
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: sandi2] #2788321
05/05/18 06:51 AM
05/05/18 06:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
B
betheoa Offline OP
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betheoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 53
Quote:
2. My feelings, thoughts and vents.


Now i am feeling very low. The things got worst.
I feel i do not have home anymore where to come. As i said above, my WW punishing me intentionally (or justify her self)to develop what she have with OM2, because she think that i kill her roses from OM2 last year.
So there is no wife, there is no woman i have to wait for.
I really need support about, staying on my way to be separate from now on. I do not want to talk to WW, i do not have anything to speak about. Every thing have been sad. I do not want to confront her about, what i know by my Intel/snooping.
I really do not know how she can, go back to normal...ever. I do not want see her at this point, last month, when we behave almost nice each other, it was like huge lie. For me was difficult to look at her.
During this last 20 days, i sow in me "Stockholm syndrome" i felt, slide forgetting about the reality ....
I do not want live like this any more, i just have to decide how to proceed with the kids.
It is very difficult, my codependency telling me i have to go home, with the kids ....but my new self telling me there is only misery at home. I leave in this misery for long time. I do not deserve this anymore, only way to stop this is to separate my self from WW.
For very long time i lived, in this limbo and try to connection with WW, and she used for cake eating. last 2 moths after my firs leave the home for a week, i looked at my self and said "i do not wont to live like this any more".
I was a full for so long, thanks Sandi .... to open my eyes, in the past i take any temp check like, her attempt to reconciliation or second thought, and the pattern was, when she sow i am commuted, she go back where she was. Not this time. Last 2 months i have slowly become more confident in breaking the loop, that i have lived for so long.

sorry about this venting, i know it is a mess.

next post, i am going to ask some questions and advise, how to handle next..part of my journey


Me39
W 41
T18 M12

D8
S10

I was WH 2011
WAW from 2012
WW from 2016
OM1 2016 (just friends) limerance
OM2 2017 (just friends) limerance

Full blown EA - not yet confirmed
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: betheoa] #2788322
05/05/18 06:55 AM
05/05/18 06:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
S
sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
Quote:
During those 20 days she try to bully/disrespect me in front of the kids, or alone, i call her writhe there 90% of the time, 10% just ignore.
She tried several time to bite me, involve in arguments, i ignore her.


Good job!

Quote:
There was several times, when we were with some neighbors at the evenings, her approach to me was very friendly. She did not try to disrespects/joke on me in front of the others (like last summer). When she start to not pay attention that i am there, i just left to walk around, and she start to looking about me.


It's good that she is respectful in front of your neighbors.

Quote:
My observation show, that when i become funny with others man/woman and especially other woman's, she become very curios, and start showing i an her man, body language or/and in conversation. She become very jealousy when some one appreciate me or/and show i have some value/skills.


Yes, this is typical behavior of a WW. She is possessive or territorial. She doesn't want to be your W, but she doesn't want anyone else having you. It is a very selfish type of jealousy.

Quote:
During thous days, whit OM2 so much in the picture she look for my company/attention


The WW will use the H as her Plan B (backup plan) when she and OM (Plan A) are not as close.

I agree with your decision to stay with a friend until your flat is ready. I want to caution you about finances. Protect your finances so she cannot do damage. I don't know how her percentage in the flat might leave you vulnerable. Some women are mean and will do things to harm the finances of the H.

She will tell her friends and family that you have another woman, in order to make herself appear as a victim. Don't worry about it, but expect it. This is typical behavior of the WW to make her H look like the bad guy. You know the truth, and don't have to prove anything to anyone.

She will pursue you. She will find excuses to ask to go to the house. She will want to know where you are and what you are doing at all times.......b/c she will feel she is losing control of you. As long as you can be reached by phone in case of an emergency......she does not have to know everything you do, your plans, your thoughts, or your feelings.

((hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up [Re: betheoa] #2788326
05/05/18 07:31 AM
05/05/18 07:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,086
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sandi2 Offline
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sandi2  Offline
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Posts: 18,086
Quote:
During this last 20 days, i sow in me "Stockholm syndrome" i felt, slide forgetting about the reality


Yes, I agree. You have been co-dependent on your marriage/children. It may be challenging to start a new life, but you will be fine. Surround yourself with nice people who treat you well. Why stay around people who don't treat you well?

Once you leave the home, don't go back there to stay with the kids. Pick them up, but don't go inside the house. Take them with you, or take them somewhere to play. You need to make an emotional break with that house b/c it triggers past memories and emotions. I think your W will want you to sit with the kids at the house, cook meals, etc. don't ever start doing it. Once you separate, you don't go back into the house, except to get your belongings.

When you are leaving, assure the children you are not abandoning them. Explain that you have another place for them to stay with you. Explain that you and their mother have to live apart, but that you are still their father, love them, and will be in their lives. Perhaps, having a list of activities......or letting them discuss with you some things they want the three of you to do this summer, would help them realize you will be there. Later, when they have bedrooms, they will enjoy decorating how they like it.

You don't have to apologize for venting on the board. Your W tried to reduce you to a bug, but you are a good man, and a good father. Once you remove yourself from her environment and control.......you will grow stronger very rapidly. I have learned it is very important to like ourselves. You are going to like yourself a lot, once you get away from her clutches.

You are beginning to have self value, and you realize you deserve to be happy, respected, and treated well. You realize you don't have to live this way......and you don't want to live this life.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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