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Originally Posted By: sandi2

Even if that is her signal for you to jump and fix her some food.........why would you? (You are too accommodating). She can either fix what you have prepared, or she can get what she wants. I am not the best at giving examples of come-back responses b/c my tongue is a little sharp for most cases. I would probably say something like, "Sounds like a problem", and leave at that. If she doesn't know what she wants, how the heck are you suppose to know?


I ask myself that question everyday, Sandi. Well, I used to anyway. W lives in a way where she just lets things happen to her. She doesn't know what she wants and doesn't take the proper steps to figure it out. She is afraid of the responsibility of making decisions and constantly tries to offload it onto me--even down to what food we eat. If something goes wrong, she wants to be able to blame someone else. Yes, I have been way too accommodating and put up with her passive-aggressive musings and jumped in to try to solve all her dilemmas, no matter how small. But that was the old way. Now, I have no interest in guessing what food she might like or making it for her.

I have a question for you, as I have been reading through all of your WW threads now that I know my W fully qualifies. I understand the best action for me is to drop all ropes as quickly as possible; make her feel the loss of me and all that entails to the fullest extent that I can. The sooner, the better. Everything at once. Of course, this all falls in line with normal DB techniques like detaching, GAL, etc that I have already been doing. However, I sense that with WWs it can be necessary/beneficial for it to be a bit harsher. You phrase it as tough love.

My dilemma is that the A is not in the open. She does not know that I know about it. And as I have mentioned, she is still very attached (for lack of a better word) in that she does the constant temp checks, asking me tons of questions etc. So, I cannot offer justification for drastic tough love behavior. For example, the bed situation. In your posts, you say the message should be "I won't sleep with a cheater." Obviously I can't say that (and in this case, I already know what I will say as we've discussed, I'm just using it as the example). Similarly, most of the steps seem to be underlined with the message "you cheated, I no longer have interest in talking/hanging out with you/having anything to do with you and you will no longer receive anything from me". I feel like the message I send cannot be as strong since the A is not exposed. Does this make sense?

I presume the answer is to just aggressively DB the best I can. The less I am available and around, the more she will feel my loss. But after reading the WW threads, I am afraid the tough love won't be tough enough...would love to know your thoughts on this, given you are aware of my individual situation. Thank you again for all your help.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted By: 44tries
Originally Posted By: Steve85

I want to encourage you here. If she is asking "are you mad" then you are probably doing detachment right! When I would detach well, my wife would always temp check me with a "is there something wrong?" As positively and upbeat as I could be without overdoing it I would respond with "Nope, everything is great!" You've already said that she is constantly temp checking, asking you what you are doing and did. So she is probably uber-sensitive to any changes you make. So if you detach properly she will take note. That may be her "are you mad?" is all about.

Concentrate on your detachment. How she reads it or interprets it is on her. So don't do change it based on her reaction. I think from what you have said you are doing really really well! So keep up the good work!


Thanks so much, Steve! This really made me smile. After being here a few weeks, doing so much reading and posting, it's easy to feel I am so far from where I want/need to be. My eyes were really opened to how weak and accommodating I have been in my MR and how sorely I am lacking leadership skills. I do not want to be the desperate, powerless doormat anymore. It feels really good to know that I have made some positive progress and it is evident.

W called down to me just a few minutes ago, asking what I'm doing and if I'm mad. I really do think it is just her puzzlement at my detachment. Now every time she asks I will use it as motivation to keep pushing forward. smile


Knowing it is working is great motivation! Good call on the leadership thing too! We aren't supposed to mention other authors here but try googling leadership in marriage. Some good advice out there on this topic.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
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Originally Posted By: 44tries
Similarly, most of the steps seem to be underlined with the message "you cheated, I no longer have interest in talking/hanging out with you/having anything to do with you and you will no longer receive anything from me". I feel like the message I send cannot be as strong since the A is not exposed. Does this make sense?

What if you stopped worrying so much about what you say and focus more on saying those sentiments with your actions?

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Quote:
My dilemma is that the A is not in the open. She does not know that I know about it. And as I have mentioned, she is still very attached (for lack of a better word) in that she does the constant temp checks, asking me tons of questions etc. So, I cannot offer justification for drastic tough love behavior. For example, the bed situation. In your posts, you say the message should be "I won't sleep with a cheater." Obviously I can't say that (and in this case, I already know what I will say as we've discussed, I'm just using it as the example). Similarly, most of the steps seem to be underlined with the message "you cheated, I no longer have interest in talking/hanging out with you/having anything to do with you and you will no longer receive anything from me". I feel like the message I send cannot be as strong since the A is not exposed. Does this make sense?


Yes, it does make sense and you are right. If your W does not know you are aware of her A, then she doesn't have to sleep in a separate bed. But if she knows that you know she is betraying you and dishonoring the M, and if you continue to sleep with her.........it appears, IMHO, that you are compromising with the infidelity.

Once the WW knows that you have found out about her affair, she watches you to see how you are going to react. Instinct tells her that there should be some type of response. If she sees you wanting to sleep with her, accommodating her, pursuing her, etc........any lasting respect she may have, flies out the window, b/c she knows you should not want a woman who has disrespected you to this degree.

So, it kind of places pressure on the H to do something, once it comes out that his W is cheating. That's why I tell H's not to confront the WW about her A, unless he is prepared to apply tough love. Confrontation does nothing but alert her that he knows. I'm not against confrontation. I am against confrontation without a plan. Confrontation puts pressure on the WW to do something, too. However, it often results in an action the H did not want. He's thinking if he confronts her that she'll end the A. ATM, I can't think of a case where that actually worked. I can remember stories where the WW would claim she would end it........but in reality, she took the A deeper underground and covered her tracks better.

What I am hoping you will do in your situation, is to get your b@lls back, first, and become an attractive male to your W. Once she knows you are aware of the A, then things immediately go into high gear and much more is required from you. It will harder living with her. You think it's difficult now? Just let her know you've discovered her A!


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Amoafwl

What if you stopped worrying so much about what you say and focus more on saying those sentiments with your actions?


O, I absolutely agree. I wasn't meaning I wanted to say those things. I was referring to the actions I would take that would 'say' those things. Actions that say I want nothing to do with you, basically. If she doesn't know I know she is cheating, taking actions that send that strong of a message will seem unwarranted. That's what I was asking about.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
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Originally Posted By: sandi2

Yes, it does make sense and you are right. If your W does not know you are aware of her A, then she doesn't have to sleep in a separate bed. But if she knows that you know she is betraying you and dishonoring the M, and if you continue to sleep with her.........it appears, IMHO, that you are compromising with the infidelity.


Perfectly stated. This is the reason I was worried, because I do not want to do anything that makes it appear I am willing to compromise with infidelity. But if she doesn't know, then I guess it can't appear that way.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Once the WW knows that you have found out about her affair, she watches you to see how you are going to react. Instinct tells her that there should be some type of response. If she sees you wanting to sleep with her, accommodating her, pursuing her, etc........any lasting respect she may have, flies out the window, b/c she knows you should not want a woman who has disrespected you to this degree.

So, it kind of places pressure on the H to do something, once it comes out that his W is cheating. That's why I tell H's not to confront the WW about her A, unless he is prepared to apply tough love. Confrontation does nothing but alert her that he knows. I'm not against confrontation. I am against confrontation without a plan. Confrontation puts pressure on the WW to do something, too. However, it often results in an action the H did not want. He's thinking if he confronts her that she'll end the A. ATM, I can't think of a case where that actually worked. I can remember stories where the WW would claim she would end it........but in reality, she took the A deeper underground and covered her tracks better.


Right, this is more or less what I would have assumed. I don't see any reason to confront or press the issue, because right now, she has the wayward mindset. Like you said, I can only see that pressure pushing her further down that road.

Originally Posted By: Sandi2
What I am hoping you will do in your situation, is to get your b@lls back, first, and become an attractive male to your W. Once she knows you are aware of the A, then things immediately go into high gear and much more is required from you. It will harder living with her. You think it's difficult now? Just let her know you've discovered her A!


Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to know. I just got worried after reading the WW that there was some kind of window or timely need to drop all ropes ASAP. You spoke of the H's ability to influence the loss that may break the fog. I want to do that to the best of my ability, but given the circumstances, I think the best way is to just detach and GAL as much as I possibly can. I know she will feel loss just by my being unavailable and doing my own thing. She already has to some degree and I just want to capitalize on that. My hope is that the extreme tough love tactics won't be necessary in my case to make her feel sufficient loss.

My plan is to be much less available than I used to be and when I am around, prove that I will no longer accommodate and I can be a leader, along with some other 180s centered around areas I feel contributed to her loss of respect. I read your thread on reasons Ws lose respect and it was gold. Sadly, I saw myself in many of the points. It is very frustrating to have so much newfound awareness and know I may never get the chance to truly implement it, at least in this particular MR.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Jul 2016
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44tries:

I'm very sorry you are in your situation.

In your first post you asked, "Do I keep trying?"

Step back from all the details of your situation and take a look at the big picture:

- You two are young.
- Your wife wasn't sure she wanted to marry you.
- Your wife isn't sure she's attracted to you.
- Your marriage broke down only a year or into the marriage.

Divorce busting baaaaaarely works for those who had a VERY solid marriage to begin with, if they had a strong, healthy fundamental connection that formed the foundation of the marriage.

My answer to your question: No.

Let her go. Let yourself go from a mistake you both made. Move on with your life. You are young. Life is long.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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44tries,

ForGump talks of that which we do not speak. I kind-of agree with him because the best chance of getting your wife back would be to let her go - completely.

The problem is, now that you know about the affair, even though she doesn't know that you know, you're just playing a cat-and-mouse game. It's just a tactic that delays the inevitable.

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44tries Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ForGump
44tries:
I'm very sorry you are in your situation.

In your first post you asked, "Do I keep trying?"

Step back from all the details of your situation and take a look at the big picture:

- You two are young.
- Your wife wasn't sure she wanted to marry you.
- Your wife isn't sure she's attracted to you.
- Your marriage broke down only a year or into the marriage.

Divorce busting baaaaaarely works for those who had a VERY solid marriage to begin with, if they had a strong, healthy fundamental connection that formed the foundation of the marriage.

My answer to your question: No.

Let her go. Let yourself go from a mistake you both made. Move on with your life. You are young. Life is long.


Thank you for your honesty. I think it is easy to feel you are fighting the valiant fight, determined to save the marriage no matter what. But I am not blind to the fact that sometimes this fight is not one of courage and perseverance, but one of fear and desperation. I have spent a lot of time looking at the same big picture you lay out here, even before this particular crisis began. Despite the immense pain and sorrow it brings me, I have made peace with the fact that there is a strong chance you are right.

I may never know exactly how my wife's feelings for me have ebbed and flowed over the years we have been together. I will never know just how sure or unsure she was the day she vowed to love me forever. The only thing I can be sure of is myself and the level of love and commitment I have. I do not want my old marriage back and neither does my W. My DB efforts are not an attempt to lure her back and hold her prisoner. Rather to challenge myself to face my own flaws and contributions to the breakdown, and change permanently for the better. I want to use the profound effect this experience has had on me to fuel positive growth and awareness in myself that otherwise may not have been possible. If there is some tiny chance my wife looks up and sees a man who reminds her that we did at one time have an intense love and connection and maybe there is something salvageable, then great. If not, I am okay with the fact some things are broken beyond repair and were never meant to be. I can walk away not with the regret of a 'mistake', but with a lot of great memories and the closure of a chapter that was instrumental in shaping and pushing me to be the man I will become.


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 249
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44tries Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: doodler
44tries,

ForGump talks of that which we do not speak. I kind-of agree with him because the best chance of getting your wife back would be to let her go - completely.

The problem is, now that you know about the affair, even though she doesn't know that you know, you're just playing a cat-and-mouse game. It's just a tactic that delays the inevitable.



I didn't really follow your last statement, "It's just a tactic that delays the inevitable."


M: 26 W: 26
M: 1.5 T: 3
No kids
BD: 31 March 2018

W's affair began: 23 March 2018
Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018
Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018
Ended in-house separation: July 2018
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