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Also, she sounds delusional about parents and family members. My H was the same way. Said I was still "invited" to family events. Seriously? Was I going to sit there with him and a girlfriend? He even "invited" me to an annual family event that I have thrown for the past 18 years. For some reason, my H seemed to think that nothing was really going to change for him except that he was now going to be able to date and not pay for family expenses. It is a weird delusion.


DB August 6, 2017 after 3 month separation
Me: 54
H: 58
Two Teenage sons
Living Separately from H
Married 19 years, together 22 years
Not sure if this is an MLC or WAS
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Joejoe1,

Thanks dusted myself off and working program again.

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Originally Posted By: Kaizen

But - why would you WANT to hang around with her parents? Im sure down the line that youll have plenty of time to spend with your parents or your future significant other's family. If your kids want to see them, then she can take them.

they have been like family to me for half of my life... we've spent every major holiday with them since we were married...
But I understand what you are saying... and A) I'm not certain I will be welcomed after this (regardless of how good the D goes) and B) that I would feel comfortable at all doing this.
Originally Posted By: Kaizen

Maybe now is time to STOP telling her that "You are in".

Like I said before, she has absolutely zero fear that you would reject her if she did come back. That takes away ALL of her incentive to ever want to come back.

so do I say anything? like "I'm done" or just stop talking about M, A, R or even about my continuing evolution and realizations (i.e. the internal ones that she would never see). These are NOT for her...
Guessing this probably falls into the she doesn't care/pursuing behavior/pushing her away sitch... am I right or?
Originally Posted By: Kaizen

WHAT?!?!

Its hard that SHE doesnt know what YOU are doing? Who gives a crap whether its 'hard' for her? Make it clear that the children are cared for. Otherwise, why on earth does it matter if she knows what youre doing. Its better for you if she doesnt know. Why in the heck would you want to share the details of your GAL with her?

Do you see how she wants you on her hook? She batted her eyelashes at you and you told her everything you are doing. She doesnt want to be with you....but she sure as hell wants you to stay available to her in case she changes her mind later. And every time you open your mouth, you show her that you will be.


I don't really think she does... she's convinced that OM is her soul mate and she's signed a 12 month lease... that in conjunction with ALL the anger she has over past 19 years of marriage and she says that she wishes she was a better person but she's not, she can't get over the past... I'm erratic as heck and getting worse... and she needs for this to be over as it's too hard...
Originally Posted By: Kaizen

Originally Posted By: Hermes
She refused to accept that counseling might bear fruit

If shes already checked out....it wont.

Yup... I get this... I'm just really sad/upset that we never tried together (I get that she was unhappy for a number of years... and just dealt with it, worked harder, tried to talk to me... I know how hard I've tried since May... but we've never actually tried at the same time and that's what the real tragedy is here IMHO.

Originally Posted By: Kaizen
If she doesnt want a marriage, then you saying that you want to change for her/M just reinforces that in your mind she is the bad guy. Stop pushing the M on to her.

Really good point.

Originally Posted By: Kaizen
Yeah. These are her feelings now. But they could change. But every time you have this sdame talk it starts you back over at 0. You are so inconsistent, she cant actually trust any of these changes. They all feel like a trick. A trap.

How do I become more consistent? I've tried so many of the suggestions in the book, and I get that I've done most of them for a week or two at best... she uses things like my GAL being out till late at night and her not knowing where I'm going or what I'm doing as another justification of me being inconsistent..

What does consistent look like (LRT)? Did this for a week solid and she said I was cold and distant to her...

Originally Posted By: Kaizen

Originally Posted By: Hermes
I’m getting to point I just want this to be over frown

Untiul you learn to take control of yourself and to detach....it will never actually be over.

Originally Posted By: Kaizen

Originally Posted By: Hermes
Maybe I’m just feeling sorry for myself but, I can’t stop what’s coming, I can/am gradually making it worse

YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IS COMING.

Who knows what will happen tomorrow or next week or next month or next year.

All I can say with 100% certainty is that you are making this worse with these talks.

I get the thought stopping behaviors, etc... but with the Parent talks looming in under 2 weeks and telling the kids I'm kind of panicking... Maybe once those are out of the bag

Originally Posted By: Kaizen

Originally Posted By: Hermes
More than anything in the world I want a chance to make this right for her/us/kids/family... but reality is I killed off whatever love she had for me long ago.

This IS your chance. Stop following every word SHE says and start listening to the advice you are getting and actually follow it.


I'm so confused... last A discussion she shared about her A and how it started... etc. DB Coach says this is positive because she's becoming vulnerable around me...
Says I need to focus on being humble etc. So I think maybe another discussion like this might bear more fruit... as we don't talk about anything other than Kids or M/A/R these days... I know nothing about what she does etc.


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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Originally Posted By: MStarr
Hi Hermes. I totally get where you are coming from and I'm on approximately the same timeline. These are some things that have helped me (a lot!):

EVERYDAY do something good and healthy for yourself. i.e. connecting with friends, partaking in a hobby you like, etc.

Do NOT have any emotional discussions with your spouse. ONLY talk logistics. Be polite and friendly with those, but do NOT respond if she tries to bait you with emotive stuff. You will feel better about yourself.

"Act as if" you are a person with self-respect who is over the relationship. Even though you feel the opposite of that. Ask yourself before you engage with her "How would I act if I had self-respect and was over her"?

I am also working with a coach and using LRT and have found it beneficial for my sanity and moving forward regardless of how husband reacts. Do not beg, give her space. She's on her own journey and you have ZERO control over how she handles it. All you can do is control your own actions and words. And the ONLY response is to take care of yourself, act as if you are moving on, and treat yourself with self respect. GAL. That is your only chance for your marriage and your happiness. Keep the focus on yourself. You can't get into her head and it will only make you crazy anyway. Get out and do stuff. Even if it all feels completely hollow. "Act as if.." because eventually it won't feel hollow.

I really like these suggestions... How do you stick to LRT? are you still living with him? I did this for a week and WW said that I was being cold and distant... then I fall back into being warm and friendly... or when she has a work problem... I try to help her as I ignored her for soo much of our M... can you do LRT and when she needs help still reach out and do this for her? or do you just need to walk away (which in my case is more of the same behavior from the past).

How often do you GAL? I've done it 2-4 x /week and she gets angry because I'm going out and having fun... don't have a job and she's working her A$$ off to support us... (Mind you it may only be for 3 hours to hike on one occasion and on 2 others out with a friend for 3-5 hours where I might spend $30 total). She says I am always gone and is upset by it then says if that is what I need to do she doesn't want to get in my way.

Originally Posted By: MStarr

Regarding telling kids. My therapist told me it's perfectly fine to let the kids know who initiated. The main thing the kids need to know is that they are still loved by both of you and that it wasn't their fault. They need to know what will change for them and what won't. Encourage them to ask questions because they will be stunned. My 14 year old asked me if he needed to get a job since Dad is leaving. You have no idea what's going on in their heads, so you need to encourage them to talk. She doesn't get to decide everything. YOU COUNT TOO!


So She wants to tell them Just after Xmas as they will be home for a week to deal with it... I think this will still associate XMAS with D... and as she's not moving out until mid Feb we should wait to tell Kids and Parents until 1-2 weeks prior. She says by telling them and then us living together for another month, they will see how great this will be as we get to show them how little changes for them etc. (I think she's deluded).


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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Originally Posted By: MStarr
Also, she sounds delusional about parents and family members. My H was the same way. Said I was still "invited" to family events. Seriously? Was I going to sit there with him and a girlfriend? He even "invited" me to an annual family event that I have thrown for the past 18 years. For some reason, my H seemed to think that nothing was really going to change for him except that he was now going to be able to date and not pay for family expenses. It is a weird delusion.


Unreal... In my Sitch she wants me to go by myself with kids to her P for one holiday she doesn't care about and then she gets them for another one she does care about (where I wouldn't go)... So we would never be there at the same time)...

She also wants to tell her P and K that little will change for them they will still get to go back for all holidays, get togethers etc. (I think this is a lie because we don't know what will happen down the road so we shouldn't say this...


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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So it's been a week... and I've had several more fails in terms of DB.
That said, not going to focus on them...
Also had some positives... She had issue at work... asked S15 to help with it... I looked on... he was not able to help... So I gave my 2 cents which she responded to positively... but she still wasn't getting the point... she went to bed... I wrote up a detailed explanation and took it to her (pretty sure she was IM with OM as she had HUGE smile on face when I entered the room she is staying in) she said thanks... I also gave it to her in elec. form and humbled myself in the process...

She thanked me the next day saying she really appreciated that I did this out of kindness and concern for her...
Today we had to go to school conf. Teachers expressed concern over D12 isolating and not doing work... after conf... we were talking about it by ourselves. She said, I know you think I'm responsible for this... I said, I didn't say anything and wasn't going to bring this up.

At car it got emotional again... sigh... she reiterated how she can't go on like this as she has to be able to work.

BUT later she thanked me again for help with Work sitch... as it really proved useful this week and made a big diff in her project.

No Idea what's going on in her head these days...

I know the D goes forward regardless... and that I need to protect myself and kids at this point in time...

I'm concerned about her behavior in throwing me under the bus subtly with the kids and in how she always speaks about kids in I terms (I will make sure S does homework... vs We will make sure...).
I'd like to have a conversation about us both working hard to not throw the other one under the bus...
I'd also like for us to start co-parenting counseling (with a Marriage friendly counselor trained in co-parenting) as this I think might help greatly our communication with each other etc.

I also need to go back over all the advice again (and on a daily basis) to cement this into my head...

I did read the No more Mr. Nice Guy book (some of which applied to my sitch) and most of the Married Man's Sex Primer (still working that one)...
Found myself getting more resolve reading these that I deserve better... which at first kind of scared me a bit... highlighted a number of sections of both... need to add these to my growing list of advice and then go back over it all to whittle it down into course of action that I can refer back to at least 2x/day. as I'm having trouble with Balance/Consistency in my actions...

Guessing what I do is less important (in terms of DB technique) right now than being utterly consistent and balanced for next 3-4 weeks. (I've been happy, sad, melancholy, morose, upset, quiet, but have a hard time staying with one of these).
And have a hard time trying to be happy and upbeat (have shown euphoria going above and beyond)... but guessing this means just a mild contentment with the sitch (as in at peace...) vs all smiles and happy?

Thougths?


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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She is saying you are inconsistent and all over the place... Because you are! You are saying so yourself. You are being reactive rather than proactive. You start out on a course but if she does something, anything, you change direction. She says she does not know where you are so you immediately cow tow to her. In other words she says jump and you say "how high?" You must stop this if you'll have any chance.

Look, we all know how hard all of this is. It makes so little sense when you are in the thick of it but total sense when you step back or after you see it work. You know what to do, now do it WITH CONFIDENCE and stick with it.

As for this nonsense of her dictating how you will tell the kids and family, what you will say and how you will say it - NONSENSE. The truth is nearly always the best way. That doesn't mean every detail. However it does mean if something is hot you don't say it's cold. Her wanting to not tell the kids she wants the divorce and you don't is not best for anyone BUT HER!!! That's all that is about. There are many stories on the boards about this including kids hating a dad like you only because they did not know the truth. They then find out the real truth many years later and feel terribly for blaming the wrong person due to wrong information. Your kids are old enough for basic truths - starting with, "we disagree about getting D but I will not stand in moms way". That is simply the truth. I would not bring up OM but if asked, I would not cover either. If your kids ask if either of you are seeing someone else, see my comment above - TELL THE TRUTH. Perhaps better yet, just don't lie! Stating or even sitting next to W while she states "we both want a D" is a lie. DONT LIE TO YOUR KIDS, PATENTS OR FRIENDS. That's just a basic rule of life.

For some reason you have not gotten a lot of feedback, which is why I'm giving my two cents. I really hope others, including some of the rock star vets here will chime in.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
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H,

DonH is right. Be prepared to tell the truth. Thats your resolve. You let your W know you won't lie and you are not using her script, because guess what its HER script, not yours and not y'alls. You tell her she can say what she wants but you are sticking to the truth. You dont have to have a discussion after that. The other thing is, this sit down is her doing, not y'alls.

Stop reacting to everything she does and says. You actions should be non reactive and even. No matter what she says or does you are the same.

I also think you are flooding yourself with information. You won't get all this information in, even in a year, so trying to do it in a few days or weeks will only confuse you. Take a step back. Work on one thing at a time. Time to get Sandi's 37 rules down first. Her rules help with detaching, GALing, 180s and validating. If you get a handle on those 37, you can worry about the NGS.

The best thing you can do now is focus on detaching with love and GALing. Work on these first and tell us how they are going. You can't do them for a week and then look for signs and if you dont get signs stop. These are life changes and not situational changes.

Its time to start these life changes for yourself and not your W or M.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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IMHO you are now walking your wife's walk. And you can not keep doing that. Stand for your values. And show your children that.
The truth will make you free. You must start living YOUR life.


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
Piecing since 03/2016
Saw the light in the storm
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Originally Posted By: DonH
She is saying you are inconsistent and all over the place... Because you are! You are saying so yourself. You are being reactive rather than proactive. You start out on a course but if she does something, anything, you change direction. She says she does not know where you are so you immediately cow tow to her. In other words she says jump and you say "how high?" You must stop this if you'll have any chance.

Look, we all know how hard all of this is. It makes so little sense when you are in the thick of it but total sense when you step back or after you see it work. You know what to do, now do it WITH CONFIDENCE and stick with it.


So I recognize what you are saying and she is saying. I need to take a stand and move forward with it. I am strongly considering the Act "As If..." and focus on how I would act if I thought things were going to turn out for the best... (e.g. no following her around, no placating behavior, no reactionary behavior... but be kind, loving, but detached in the sense that I don't let her BS get to me. I have a month left of her in the house before she moves on... I've heard through the grapevine that she's telling others that I have changed and she is not happy and it's a shame but it's for the best... Her big complaint with me is inconsistency... (I realize that WW and Sandi's rules... but am looking at what had worked in past... it was kindness, being humble, no defending, no reactionary behavior, etc.)

Once she moves out, I think in a month I may need to move more towards the LRT and only speak to her when kids are involved... be reserved, but loving, respond warmly when she does speak to me, but don't go on and on....

Regardless, I'm going to keep electronic communication to a minimum... brief phone conversations only when she calls me, and keep it to kids, be the first to hang up... etc. and STOP ALL M/R/A talk and if she wants to get emotional disengage.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted By: DonH

As for this nonsense of her dictating how you will tell the kids and family, what you will say and how you will say it - NONSENSE. The truth is nearly always the best way. That doesn't mean every detail. However it does mean if something is hot you don't say it's cold. Her wanting to not tell the kids she wants the divorce and you don't is not best for anyone BUT HER!!! That's all that is about. There are many stories on the boards about this including kids hating a dad like you only because they did not know the truth. They then find out the real truth many years later and feel terribly for blaming the wrong person due to wrong information. Your kids are old enough for basic truths - starting with, "we disagree about getting D but I will not stand in moms way". That is simply the truth. I would not bring up OM but if asked, I would not cover either. If your kids ask if either of you are seeing someone else, see my comment above - TELL THE TRUTH. Perhaps better yet, just don't lie! Stating or even sitting next to W while she states "we both want a D" is a lie. DONT LIE TO YOUR KIDS, PATENTS OR FRIENDS. That's just a basic rule of life.


Agree completely on the we both want divorce front... Trying to get her to go see a co-parenting counselor who can help us formulate a response to kids before we tell them...

Thoughts on waiting to tell kids until 2 weeks prior to moveout VS. her intention of telling them 2 days after Xmas? (I think this will associate Xmas with D for the rest of their lives... and hope that the extra month might stop that from happening)...
Not certain that spilling the A beans would benefit me during D proceedings (know she's likely to be obstinate at any rate esp. with finances... but worried she might become vindictive and really dig in if A beans are spilled...)


Me 47
STBXW 44
M ~20
D13
S15
BD mid 17
A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr
OM decade older
S Imminent
D Soon after

Be the rock that can weather the storm...
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