I think therapy covers a lot of perspectives. Some will do 'mirroring' where they see their role as focusing on helping the individual be clear about what they currently want rather than challenging their perspective.
And to be fair, people don't always tell their therapists the truth or tell the truth about what their therapists say! I think one of the biggest risks of any kind of IC is that it encourages you to think about you primarily. Sometimes that can be really helpful, but sometimes it can feed an already self-centred focus perhaps.
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
She sounds like a gem. I see that you've bent over backwards for this marriage but let me ask you...what has her contribution been? Take off your love blinders and answer that as honestly as you can.
Hello Kylo and welcome to the forums! I've read all your posts and my question to you is what is your goal? Are you trying to save your M? I'm confused, it sounds like you think your W is crazy and that you wish you hadn't married her in the first place. Assuming that is true then I'm just wondering what your focus is. I hope that doesn't sound negative spin, I mean it as a genuine question as it will affect our advice to you.
Originally Posted By: Kylo
She dropped the bomb in May of this year, with almost no warning.
That's what it usually seems like to the LBS, but she may have been trying to get your attention for months or even years. It probably looked like nagging to you, but it was a cry for help. Then she gave up and started planning her escape.
Quote:
In the following few conversations we had, she would eventually say things like: "I don't think I can love you like that." "Our marriage was terrible" "I've been faking it for so long" "You deserve better" "We can be great friends" etc...
All typical WAS script.
Quote:
I let them down making this poor choice of a mom, (she's actually a good mom, BUT SHE WANTS A DIVORCE, so a failure)
Marriages rarely fail because one person was perfect and the other was a hot mess. It's usually because both spouses quit trying. It happens, after years and years of M it's hard to keep things new and exciting. It all just kind of goes on autopilot. So try to look beyond your W's issues and see if there's not something you need to work on yourself. That's a large part of DB'ing is making ourselves the best possible "me" that we can be.
Quote:
She said "he thinks we should divorce" Wow! What a counselor! I got a kick out of that.
Most IC's and MC's are little more than divorce facilitators. Michele obviously isn't, and she's putting together a network of coaches and counselors that are marriage friendly. Hopefully they will change the landscape eventually!
She sounds like a gem. I see that you've bent over backwards for this marriage but let me ask you...what has her contribution been? Take off your love blinders and answer that as honestly as you can.
There were times when she was loving and caring. The timeline gets fuzzy, but this probably lasted up until the first child. She had been thoughtful in the past, and she has done a good job with the kids. House upkeep was, and is poor. She doesn't cook (although I've told her over and over, it isn't worth the time). She had always been pretty good when we needed to pitch in for the family, (my family, hers is non-existent).
My family and I have done a lot to help her. -Before we dated, I started bringing her out with my friends because she was hanging out with the "wrong crowd" and wanted to get away from that scene. This became dating a few months later. -When we got married, I paid for the bulk of the wedding because her parents would only make limited contributions, (I contributed maybe $20k on a $50k salary at the time?) -I found out she had credit card debt after we were married and I paid that off. -I'm still paying her student loans. (Her dad retired at 50, he has the money.) -We moved out of the house I had because it had been my "bachelor pad", although it was a nice place and had plenty of room. -When our kids were young and she couldn't handle it (although I was very involved and worked short hours) my father sent my sis over 3 days a week instead of having her go to work, to give her a break. -My family took her in as one of our own. She would always say I didn't care about her or like her, but I can honestly say that what she thought entered into every decision I made. So if you wanted to measure "who did what" the scale would tip to my side, but I really didn't look at things through this lens until I started getting attacked, and still don't really unless it comes down to who gets what in the divorce. To her credit, at this point she says she is leaving some things to me (my interest in the family business, that has value on paper, but no way to access it) that she could claim that would seriously affect me and the rest of my family.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Hello Kylo and welcome to the forums! I've read all your posts and my question to you is what is your goal? Are you trying to save your M? I'm confused, it sounds like you think your W is crazy and that you wish you hadn't married her in the first place. Assuming that is true then I'm just wondering what your focus is. I hope that doesn't sound negative spin, I mean it as a genuine question as it will affect our advice to you.
[quote=Kylo]She dropped the bomb in May of this year, with almost no warning.
That's what it usually seems like to the LBS, but she may have been trying to get your attention for months or even years. It probably looked like nagging to you, but it was a cry for help. Then she gave up and started planning her escape.
Quote:
I let them down making this poor choice of a mom, (she's actually a good mom, BUT SHE WANTS A DIVORCE, so a failure)
Marriages rarely fail because one person was perfect and the other was a hot mess. It's usually because both spouses quit trying. It happens, after years and years of M it's hard to keep things new and exciting. It all just kind of goes on autopilot. So try to look beyond your W's issues and see if there's not something you need to work on yourself. That's a large part of DB'ing is making ourselves the best possible "me" that we can be.
I made a commitment and I plan to keep it. I'm a Christian and I'm still struggling with this divorce thing, but the way I read it, there pretty much is no divorce for me unless she leaves me and hooks up with another man. I would like for her to come out the other end on MLC, then by some miracle agree to work on her BPD, (which seems like the AIDS of personality disorders. They can't admit they're wrong because they can't handle the guilt; yet going to get help for BPD is admitting you are wrong). I like our shared history and I think our "getting along" personalities are similar and compatible. I also believe working it out is best for our kids.
This winter we were going through some real problems and my resentment towards her was so strong. I thought to myself "I am fully within my rights to get a divorce." But I made a commitment. I prayed and prayed, and eventually I changed and the bulk of my resentment went away, and I was able to continue.
As for autopilot. I have gown tremendously during this marriage, especially lately. I have always tried to get better. I admit that often times my efforts were pathetic, but I left every argument thinking about what I could do to get better. But looking back, it was like Lucy and the football from peanuts. She would tell me why problem A was my fault. I would work on changing it, and she wouldn't notice (admittedly, only 20% of my efforts were passable). Every argument was my fault. Now I know it had to be, in order for her to avoid the guilt. That's why she would always say: "Why are you trying to make me feel guilty" I wasn't, I was just trying to make my point.
I'm not very thoughtful. I have been blunt. I said some mean blunt things early in the relationship. The lack of sex made me angry. I wasn't a blameless angel, but I would say I was at least average or better. My dadding is All-Star (many dads seem to be now). I loathe people talking about what they deserve, but in a cosmic scales of justice sense, I don't deserve divorce.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Kylo....your W and mine sound very similar. Mine comes from a broken family who does not have a relationship with her mom and takes whatever she can get from her father. She has battled depresion most of her life and what she valued in me was safety, stability and a family structure. I never thought she would do what she did but it happened to me as well. Out of blue, with no clue it was coming. She is a very passionate person which is why I love her so much however it appears she is not able to overcome her disfunctional childhood/up-bringing. I have read that if childhood issues are not addressed they will re-surface later on in life. When I think back to our relationship I feel that I did quite a bit around the house and if you ask our friends I carried the majority of the load.
With that said I don't have much to offer other than realize your own mistakes in the relationship and understand it is more about her than you. I am not sure that my situation will have a positive ending from a reconciliation standpoint however I do know that I have grown as a person and know that my W will have to make some changes in her life before I take her back.
I have also read that most nice guys look for wives that they consider a project and that they can fix. I know that in my next relationships I will look for something different as this forum has made me more confident with who i am and what I have to offer.
The pain is real however if you are really honest with your relationship you will probably realize you sacrificed more of yourself than you should.
I wish you the best of luck and most of all try to get the confidence back!
The post above didn't quite "quote" everything that was a quote.
Why am I posting? A bit of catharsis, journaling, fact finding, and a hope that by the end my story will help someone.
I'm probably focusing on the "crazy" aspects right now because I just learned about BPD in the last few weeks and it has put so much of what she did in focus. I was at a musical last night and another past event that didn't make much sense became clear through the lens of BPD.
What I'm trying to figure out are my odds of success. I feel like if it was just MLC, I'd be at 50% or so. Throwing BPD into the mix I'm assuming drops the odds to 25% or less. I'm going to try to find some examples. If anyone knows anything about this please chime in.
I feel like if I don't move the D along, neither will she (she hasn't so far) If I'm pretty much doomed, I would rather get this over with.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Kylo, I am sorry to hear what you are going through.
"It seems to me like BPD is almost a guarantee of MLC." I can completely relate as my wife is diagnosed. I think that is one of the reasons I missed some things as I thought it was a symptom of BPD. However, after reading this site I'm not sure anymore.
"I called him and he left a message that he would be willing to see me..." Not a good idea. My wife has seen various counselors throughout the years. She would often be more upset after seeing them. It's hard to tell what happened in the session as you are only getting her interpretation. Furthermore, many counselors may see it as a conflict of interest if they already had an established relationship.
I am a complete newbie, so I have no sound advice other than to suggest to you (as a BPD spouse for many years) a diagnosis does no good for you at this point.
Kylo, I am sorry to hear what you are going through.
"It seems to me like BPD is almost a guarantee of MLC." I can completely relate as my wife is diagnosed. I think that is one of the reasons I missed some things as I thought it was a symptom of BPD. However, after reading this site I'm not sure anymore.
"I called him and he left a message that he would be willing to see me..." Not a good idea. My wife has seen various counselors throughout the years. She would often be more upset after seeing them. It's hard to tell what happened in the session as you are only getting her interpretation. Furthermore, many counselors may see it as a conflict of interest if they already had an established relationship.
I am a complete newbie, so I have no sound advice other than to suggest to you (as a BPD spouse for many years) a diagnosis does no good for you at this point.
I wish you well on your journey.
I think the stat was 70% of BPD victims have another issue?
As for calling the counselor, originally we were both going to go, but that didn't happen. Later, when I called him I just wanted him to know there was a husband and two kids that are affected by his "ditch everyone else" advice. It was just a thought in my head that I wasn't going to act on, but I mentioned it to a counselor (long story, I thought I was calling on new business, but it was a return call from a counselor, so we had a session, I suppose. I guess they don't like to identify themselves on voicemail?) and she said it was a good idea. Anyway, I never talked to the guy.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
