A familiar story with questions. II

[Rose888]

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. That was what I understand you to be saying.

But I'm going to stay out of your thread from here on.

[RR17]

Rose888, sorry to hear you feel this way.

I'm trying to seek advice for my sitch.

Perhaps debating the merits of personal boundaries would be better saved for another time.

[RR17]

Let me ask you, if she pretends like this never happened, what will you do???

A boundary isn't a rule, you can't say "You don't get to pretend.." and call it a boundary, a boundary is how you control what goes on around you. So to turn that into a boundary, it would be something like:

"If you pretend this never happened, then I will not communicate with you directly, only through our lawyers."

That would be a boundary because you are not telling her what to do, you are only saying what you will do if she does it.

Okay, "If you pretend this never happened, then I will express my concern and discomfort".

How's that?

[AnotherStander]

I believe that this meeting may have woken her up from a Fog. IDK
She has been nice and respectful and more friendly since going. All good stuff.

WAS's run hot and cold, don't read anything into it.

The problem is she has never expressed her findings or whether she plans to proceed or not. Nothing.

If you give her space and remove all pressure from her, she may very well put it on the back burner and quit talking about it. It's not unusual.

"I have been wondering what you found out and what your next move is?" Yea, I know sounds like an R talk.

Well it is an R talk, but if it's eating you up then go ahead and ask her. Just don't be surprised to find out she is indeed still proceeding. She may be gathering info for her L to draw up the papers. I remember early in my sitch, my W talked a lot about moving out, then she just stopped talking about it. I thought maybe she had changed her mind, so I asked her. Nope, she was still full steam ahead, she just didn't feel obliged to keep me updated. Once a W becomes a WAS, the H is the last person to hear about anything that is going on with them.

[RR17]

Typical dilemma, I am not to initiate R conversations, yet have personal boundaries. Well, my boundaries tell me that you don't get to pretend like this never happened.

As is common of the LBS, you can't figure out a way to deal with things without having a R talk. So, you try to label it a boundary. A boundary doesn't give you a pass for a R talk. Is this a boundary you had previously set, or are you wanting to call it boundary after the fact? If she dishonored your boundary, then you are the only one who has an action response........which should have some type of consequence for her. This consequence does not include talking. Having a R talk is never a consequence for breaking a boundary. So, without any discussions.........what would you do about her pretending nothing happened? A boundary is suppose to protect you. What action will you take to protect you from her pretense that she has not seen her lawyer?

Btw, have you seen a lawyer yet? Most of us will advise the LBS to get legal advice, and say nothing about it to their WS. I think that's pretty much what she has done, and it gets you b/c she isn't talking about it and acting "as if".

Sandi, as I would imagine most of us here do, I take your post very seriously.
I am trying to understand.
I'm not worried about getting a jump on legal counsel. At this point our assets are minimal and the kids are old enough where they can choose. If I get served with unreasonable demands I can pursue representation. At this point, I have done nothing wrong and grounds would be irreconcilable differences. Thanks for the concern.

If the consequences don't include talking, what should I do?
Wait, watch?

She has slowly added terms of endearment back into the routine. Kisses goodbye for the day etc.

I'm not sure what is next. I fear ignoring the recent events is a bad option.

[theoden]

RR17,

I'm not going to discuss boundaries.

Is this information below correct?

1. You wife has indicated she wants out of the marriage, has sought legal advice, and now is suddenly nice or nicer (calm before the storm?). She hasn't seemingly acted on anything yet. She hasn't updated you on the legal advice she's gotten (which is very smart were she about to run you over with mack truck). You are wondering is she biding her time before you get served, or is she genuinely not sure what she wants.

2. You aren't sure if she's having an affair (emotional or physical) with anyone at this point (wayward wife). She may just be a WAW.

3.You want some clarity about her plans/intentions, but don't want to start a relationship conversation, because that appears needy or pursuing.


OK here's my take.....

It appears she's retaining the initiative here. You are waiting for her to do something. Maybe she'll file for divorce. Maybe she'll want counseling. Either way, she's playing this well. You are worried, she's planning.

So...start to plan. ;-)

Here's 2 things you can do without having the R conversation.

1. Consult a lawyer immediately. Really. Sandi is quite patient. And if she's telling you to do this, I suggest you do it. Be prepared.

2. Hire a private investigator to determine if she's having an affair. If she's not, then at least you know you can take a more "wait and see" posture and deal with a WAW rather than a Wayward. You can do all 180's and GAL to you heart's content. Become the magical, amazing, strong, centered, cool person that only a fool will leave. Put a time-limit on your DB efforts (3 mos, 6 mos, 12 mos). If you're wife wants back in, then get into counseling, save the marriage and ride off into the sunset. Oh yeah, don't forget to keep up the superman persona you've taken on for the rest of your life. ;-) Now, if your wife is ambivalent after testing her interest periodically, and your DB time limit is expired, and your STILL in Limbo, you can move to the After The Last Resort Technique, and then, perhaps, the Ultimatum. When you give your ultimatum, have a plan of action with your lawyer already set up.

NOW if the PI discovers she's having an affair - you need to have that R conversation.

1 If you want to save the marriage....I suggest you confront confront with evidence and provide an ultimatum. Me or him. If she chooses you, she must agree to complete transparency, end the relationship with OM and agree to marriage counseling with you. If she can't make a decision, right there, or decides against the marriage, then... cancel all joint credit cards, empty your savings account by half and open your own account, and call your lawyer and put into action what plan you agreed upon. If you divorce, know what you want.

2. If you don't want to save the marriage...cancel all joint credit cards, empty your savings account by half and open your own account, and call your lawyer and put into action what plan you agreed upon. If you divorce, know what you want.

Dunno if any of this helps. Seems seeing a lawyer and finding out if she's having an affair would be two productive things to do while not having a R conversation.

--Theoden

[RR17]

Well it is an R talk, but if it's eating you up then go ahead and ask her. Just don't be surprised to find out she is indeed still proceeding. She may be gathering info for her L to draw up the papers.

Well, the not knowing is eating me up. I also am prepared to proceed in the best way possible. If this includes giving her more time, I will.

I know that the WAS run hot N cold and the wrong words will affect that.

Gut tells me that, as explained in the book, I should express my dissatisfactions as they affect me. I also know that timing is everything. "Given that you spoke to a D attorney, I feel uneasy not hearing your intentions.." or something like that. Perhaps in a text or email so as to take all inflection or emotion that could be misconceived out of it. THis also gives her time to gather her thoughts and removes pressure.

I'm all ears here.

[RR17]

1. You wife has indicated she wants out of the marriage, has sought legal advice, and now is suddenly nice or nicer (calm before the storm?). She hasn't seemingly acted on anything yet. She hasn't updated you on the legal advice she's gotten (which is very smart were she about to run you over with mack truck). You are wondering is she biding her time before you get served, or is she genuinely not sure what she wants.

True, except W said she wanted 90 day S to decide what she wants. I refused to move out and said if she wants out, a quick D was better. After consulting her Attny brother she said she went in for a consultation with another attny in his office. The understanding was that it would be cheaper and amicable.
(This was before reading DR and finding this board)
She is not a good actor and her 180 seems genuine. IDK

2. You aren't sure if she's having an affair (emotional or physical) with anyone at this point (wayward wife). She may just be a WAW.

True

3.You want some clarity about her plans/intentions, but don't want to start a relationship conversation, because that appears needy or pursuing

True

1. Consult a lawyer immediately. Really. Sandi is quite patient. And if she's telling you to do this, I suggest you do it. Be prepared.

2. Hire a private investigator to determine if she's having an affair. If she's not, then at least you know you can take a more "wait and see" posture and deal with a WAW rather than a Wayward. You can do all 180's and GAL to you heart's content. Become the magical, amazing, strong, centered, cool person that only a fool will leave. Put a time-limit on your DB efforts (3 mos, 6 mos, 12 mos). If you're wife wants back in, then get into counseling, save the marriage and ride off into the sunset. Oh yeah, don't forget to keep up the superman persona you've taken on for the rest of your life. ;-) Now, if your wife is ambivalent after testing her interest periodically, and your DB time limit is expired, and your STILL in Limbo, you can move to the After The Last Resort Technique, and then, perhaps, the Ultimatum. When you give your ultimatum, have a plan of action with your lawyer already set up.

NOW if the PI discovers she's having an affair - you need to have that R conversation.

1 If you want to save the marriage....I suggest you confront confront with evidence and provide an ultimatum. Me or him. If she chooses you, she must agree to complete transparency, end the relationship with OM and agree to marriage counseling with you. If she can't make a decision, right there, or decides against the marriage, then... cancel all joint credit cards, empty your savings account by half and open your own account, and call your lawyer and put into action what plan you agreed upon. If you divorce, know what you want.

2. If you don't want to save the marriage...cancel all joint credit cards, empty your savings account by half and open your own account, and call your lawyer and put into action what plan you agreed upon. If you divorce, know what you want.

All sage advice. As of now, I don't think she is having a PA. She may be involved in some degree of inappropriate pre EA or not. IDK. A PI at this point seems expensive and not necessary.
I have the experience of knowing what she was like from 3 years ago full blown EA. It is very different this time. She seems taken by the real risk of D. I realize this is my take and I could be wrong. I think she is using the D appointment as emotional currency. If that makes sense?

Right now without proof of any A, I want to try and save my marriage. I want to do it in the right way where she deals with whatever she needs to address and I don't have to go through this again.

Without sounding too self-serving, I believe her Happiness issues, are her own. I want her to address these things. I'm happy to help her. I'm sure I could become a better me, but I don't think I prevent her happiness.

[sandi2]

Sandi, as I would imagine most of us here do, I take your post very seriously.
I am trying to understand.

Based on your post, your initial iritation was due to your W being nice and acting as if nothing has happened. I think Rose and I were trying to say that your W "acting as if" isn't really boundary material ("She doesn't get to act as if nothing has happened"). Nevertheless, if you had set that as one of your boundaries.........then what was the consequence of breaking it? See what I mean? That was what I wanted you to see. To have an effective boundary, is to have consequences. IMO, I thought you were really wanting to talk to your W......and was looking for something to justify a R talk, based on how your statement read of boundaries and R talk. But now, you are frustrated. I apologize if I have confused you.

Theoden makes good suggestions. In your last post you said it was the not knowing that was really eating at you. I assume you mean not knowing if there is OM? If that's the case, then hire someone to find out. However, I doubt it will affect the D.

If you were referring to not knowing what your W found out at the lawyer's office.......then just ask her. But don't try to call it a boundary. Also, she has the right not to reveal what she found out.........just as you wouldn't have to tell her what your lawyer said.

She has slowly added terms of endearment back into the routine. Kisses goodbye for the day etc.

Maybe she found out she wouldn't get as much as she thought. Who knows?

[RR17]

In all honesty, I think she was mad that I would not move out for 90 so she can make up her mind. I pushed her to seek the D as I was mad and at that time felt more strongly about an A.

Is it stupid to think that the reality and finality of a D has settled in, that and the lower pressure sitch that I created by following the rules? That that is the cause of her change in attitude?

I know I feel different now that much has settled in.
In reading about boundaries, both here and elsewhere is that they must be stated.
What I want is to know what her temperature is. I want to ask her what are her current thoughts and feelings.