Learning, Growing, Healing

[CaliGuy]

I know my last thread was pretty close to the limit so at this point I figured best just to start a new thread ... I am not counting them nor linking them ALL I think after 24 (GOOD GREIF!!) that's just silly, those who want to look back through them have their homework to do. Also ... I am not sure if I mentioned this but I have saved the first 20 or so just for safe keeping as I know the site does do a purge here and there and with all the great advice I figure it would be a good idea to keep those golden nuggets.

Link to previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...596#Post2706596

So I have an update .... but also reading another thread it made me recall something that happened that I do not think I have shared that I actually feel compelled to now all the sudden.

So let me set this up .... I belonged to an online forum similar to this ... just different topic prior to my BD in 2013. I actually moderated the site. So long story short There was a husband/wife who were contributing members of the site for some time .... out of the blue (Christy-MLCr) left her husband of 30 years (Hank-LBS) for another member (Jerry-OM). At the time ... 2009 I think ... I did not think much of it as I had no idea what MLC truly was. My BD was a good 4 years after this and was another year till I discovered this place so I really had not thought about this at all as I was in my own tornado of misery at the time.
So a few months ago (I do check into that place here and there still) I see this post from (Christy) who I am sure went through her own MLC as things just seem to line up now that I understand what to look for ... thought I would share as it really shows how that fantasy is never what its cracked up to be.

In response to her 'Announcement'

We request the honor of your virtual presence
As we, (Jerry-OM) and (Christy-MLCr)
exchange marriage vows,
celebrate new beginnings, new dreams,
and most importantly, our love for each other
Friday, May 1, 2009

Raise your glass at 7pm
You all played a part in bringing us together

Then 8 years later ... the reality of it all...and some insight that possibly both were MLC and the perfect storm hit shore.

Well, after almost 8 years together it is over. He passed away on April 27th, 2017 after a difficult battle with Esophageal Cancer. We had more downs than ups in the marriage. He lied to me, promised things he could not or would not deliver. I think he must have been bi-polar or something similar. I'm not a doctor so can't say for sure. I just know what I lived.

(Jerry-OM) convinced me that he was the answer to my prayers, someone who would love me like no other, better than anyone else could. I came here looking for help and thinking that if my husband(Hank-LBS) saw me interacting with other men it would give him a kick start. Remind him that he loved me. It didn't work. It backfired big time.

I ended up divorcing (Hank-LBS), moving to Texas and marrying Jerry-OM). He was a big time scotch and soda man, a big time liar. He was mean to his mother, sister, children. He'd been married twice before and both women left him. I wish I would have known how mean he was.

He told me when he retired we would move back to Michigan, close to my children and parents. We did it alright but he alienated my family and they would have nothing to do with us. After my Dad died in 2015 I was able to mend fences with my mom and sister. It's been difficult.

(Jerry-OM) forbid me to participate here because he was jealous. But he continued to play as you all know. Some women here continued to play with him unknown to me. He emailed with them and talked about meeting, talked about what he'd like to do with them. It's disgusting to think about knowing what I know about him.

While we lived in Texas I would come to Michigan maybe twice a year to visit my family. Usually he would come with me once each year. While I was gone he would go to Dallas and visit, have dinner with and stay the night with one of his old girlfriends. Never telling her he was married. I was looking for his rib recipe on his computer yesterday (we liked to cook together) and instead of recipes I found saved correspondence from women on this site and his old girlfriend. Special.

I don't know if he met any of you girls while we were married or if he had "sex" with you. I will say he had Polio as a child and sex was rare for us. He had difficulty from the polio. I was alright with it because he supposedly loved me. I foolishly turned the other cheek after he pointed guns at me in a drunken rage. Turned the other cheek when he told me I was a stupid son of a bitch. When he wouldn't eat dinner because I didn't ask him how to make it first.

What a gem he turned out to be. And what a fool I was for destroying my marriage of 32 years, thinking I was needing something better.

Stop and think about what you are doing before you jump. The grass is not greener on the cheating side. I speak from experience.

He, at time was a lovely gentleman. He could speak and write lovely words making me feel, at the time like the luckiest woman in the world. I do believe that after he got cancer he came around and maybe did really love me. For the care and love that I gave him. I was here when he was unconscious, taking excellent care of him as I was taught by my mother. He did not die alone or in pain. I was a good wife to him.

I'm not angry, I'm hurt to the core that we lived a lie.

Shame on me.

I post this just for the simple fact that I think this is the typical result .... some figure things out faster than others .. for Christy it was 8 years later that she showed some remorse for the choices she made and felt compelled to warn others not to make the same mistake as she did.
Sometimes I think we need to see a story like this, as in my case its hard to know because my MLCr is so good at the fake front you would think she is the happiest person on earth most the times, then other times you can just hear the pain ... MLC is odd that way.

OK update to follow.

[CaliGuy]

So as I progress through this ... my updates grow further and further apart mostly because there is just so little 'post-worthy' news to share.

My MLCr and I had disclosed our financials back in March after the first court hearing. The next court date was set for Aug 3rd. I had not heard a peep from her L nor her about the D or anything related. Communication with the MLCr and myself has been strictly S10 based .... she has been more cordial than normal during this time with a few phone calls about therapy or scheduling vacations she was wanting to take .... my approach very guarded and business like because honestly, she is nice when she wants or needs something that's how she works, and it was also what had me stuck for years and attached thinking it was her popping out of the tunnel when infact it was simply manipulation.



So a week and a half prior to the court date I receive docs from the Lawyer, presenting the proposed settlement agreement ... as I read along I probably said 'oh hell no / she is nucking futs' a dozen times. I went and did a free consult with an amazing L who understood my position and also offered to just walk me through for an hourly rate if needed rather than retain her for thousands as its apparent the MLCr and her L want to settle this out of court. I am one of the few who actually would benefit financially being divorced at this point (MLCr should have filed at BD and she would have been set)

So armed with info I go to court .. the L tries to toss me under the bus implying she had not heard from me with regards to the settlement ... I return serve and made the judge laugh with the rest of the court room when I informed him I just received the package and it took me 3 days to locate my eyeballs that rolled out of my head after reading the proposal, then another 3-4 to find a L who could give me a non-biased counsel, as amazing as the MLC's lawyer seems... she is also not on my payroll nor guarding my interests. So he set another date for October 25th which I am sure they will want to settle before then.

After that .. the L asked to talk and we sat and went through the proposal ,which she said she thought was fair .... and I actually laughed at her agreeing that if I were on her team I would think its a helluva deal. I was nice and cordial but also firm when I informed her I was only out for fair ... not about getting to fair and negotiating down. She was not happy that I knew exactly where I stood and was in no hurry to settle and they would have to go back and arrive at much better numbers to be done with this. Now its in the courts MLCr will have to pay the L for all this work ... that fantasy of what D looks like I am sure is going to be far removed from reality.

Strange thing is ... this far into it all I am not bitter/angry or any of that. Its simply business at this point. For me divorced/married/limbo it makes no difference in my life as I have finally reached that acceptance place ... it is what it is .. so cliche but fits. As much as I never wanted D, at this point I think I need it .. I think she needs it. I do not know who she is at all anymore ... even pictures that pop up on 'FB-memories' feels like I am looking at someone else s life but somehow have a vague memory of that event. Getting past this allows me to get into a place and close this chapter and see what the next chapter holds.

Personally .. I am not dating, I am really much to busy to really give anyone my time, working as much as I do its really hard to actually meet anyone. The online thing ... ugh .. well been there and done that and its for the birds. So I have accepted things will happen as they will, I do not have much free time but when I do I make an effort to get out of my comfort zone and get out there and learn how to be somewhat human again. Wednesday I am going out to a Birthday party for two female friends (twins) I have not seen in years .. should be a fun night.

So ... till something else happens ... I hope you all take care and remember its more about your own journey than it ever will be about theirs.

[OwnIt]

Wow, that first post really says it all about what life on the other side looks like. It was also telling that poor Christy is the innocent little victim throughout. All of these things were done to her and she was treated so badly. I suppose some things never change, eh? I know for a fact that my MLCer is going to have a sh$tty life. Not sure what I feel about that. A little pity, a little schadenfreude, something.

[SBJ]

Cali...great post on the greener grass. I also agree with Own on the fact that even though she was sad about ruining her marriage, she was the victim in it all. Yes she was sold a bill of goods by the OM, but she was the one out looking where she shouldn't have been.

As far as the D, I agree that some just have to go all the way thru with the D. I pray things in your life continue to go well.

[mirage]

Cali,

Great to hear about your life.

A wonderful journey you are living!

Mirage

The MLC story......gee where have I heard that before

[bttrfly]

Well done Cali. Yes. it's business.

I realized as I read your post that somehow I managed to stick to that during the heaviest part of the negotiations and reserved falling apart about it until later.

Guess the past few months have been "later"

Reading your post I know you will be better than ok. You will thrive. Heck you already are thriving.

And somehow, I know I will be ok too.

Thanks for that.

xoxoxoxo
{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

[Irish M]

wow Cali that Christy and Hank story is sad. I hope Hank came out of it a better person and moved on to happiness.

Its a shame Christy only broke free after Jerrys death.
All so sad and messed up.

as per your sitch,, divorce is welcoming. Mine went through last year and it was a relief to be no longer tied to my XW.
You are at a great place.

of course the initial shock of seeing those final papers hits you, only because we never imagined it ever happening this way. We thought life was great, happy mirage, kids, house, family. This MLC, no one should be married to them in this state. They need to be alone.

Keep your path, i followed you from the beginning of my arrival here. So glad I did.

take care

[FightOn]

CaliGuy - thank you for sharing that post. I find it really helpful. I feel guilty for saying this, but there are time when I do want my H to be miserable. To punish him? Maybe. To make him feel regret/remorse? Perhaps. Retribution? Yea, a little.

I suppose if I ever get to the point of being able to forgive, perhaps those feelings will go away.

Forgiveness seems to be a reemerging theme. I, like others, have struggled with what exactly does it mean. I think it means something different for everyone. For me, it happens incrementally.

One thing my therapist pointed out that I found really helpful, so in the hopes I can contribute something I will pass it on. He told me granting forgiveness does not mean trusting the person again. He reminded me that people often confuse trust and forgiveness.

[AndrewP]

CaliGuy - Good to see you update. I quite liked your post on another thread about forgiveness. With my upcoming legal meeting I may try to remember one of your gems on this thread for my own use. I hope you won't mind if I don't attribute them

I also appreciate you sharing the story you did at the top of this thread. I'm not sure what I think if it which is good because it means that I'm thinking. I think that we here tend to use labels and look to statistics which make us feel better as the LBS. It was a very sad story. Representative? I have no clue so can't comment on that. There is such a poor body of knowledge out there on infidelity and outcomes at least from what reading I have done. MLC itself isn't a widely accepted diagnosis but it does give us something we can label this cr@p with which I suppose helps. Part of that is perhaps because try as I might, read as much as I have, I truly honestly don't understand what my own spouse has / is going through. Like you are I think, I'm getting to be OK with that.

Glad to see you around though and thanks for making me think.

[mleigh4]

What a sad story about Christy and her choices, and one I hear over, and over, and over again. Part of me wonders if their regret isn't so much about the people they left, the lives they shattered, but that it didn't play out the way they hoped. I still see so much selfishness in the stories, but being on the other side, I may not be able to see it any other way.

Cali, you sound solid and I am so happy to hear that. Being in the place of acceptance can be so helpful in dealing with the crazy, such as the settlement proposed to you. Good for you for standing up for yourself.

M

[bttrfly]

Cali, I'm very curious if you know what happened to "Hank"??

[CaliGuy]

I know for a fact that my MLCer is going to have a sh$tty life. Not sure what I feel about that. A little pity, a little schadenfreude, something.

Cali...great post on the greener grass. I also agree with Own on the fact that even though she was sad about ruining her marriage, she was the victim in it all. Yes she was sold a bill of goods by the OM,

CaliGuy - thank you for sharing that post. I find it really helpful. I feel guilty for saying this, but there are time when I do want my H to be miserable. To punish him? Maybe. To make him feel regret/remorse? Perhaps. Retribution? Yea, a little.

All three of you have touched on something I have been kicking around a bit, I have seen it discussed elsewhere and have even talked it over with some 'surviving' LBH's of MLC.
I think in a strong way its validation we seek. We have lived this nightmare for years .. not just days/weeks... years. Hearing and seeing the MLCr put on that front they are happy and better off without us leaves a mark regardless if they truly are happy or not it makes us question ourselves and our marriage down to the core level as MLC has a wonderful way of flipping ones life/marriage/family on its ear leaving all those effected grasping for answers.
For me I have let go but I too find myself a little more happy when I hear she had a bad day or seems sad ... and a touch more somber when she appears all giddy ... even now it does have an effect on me but like all things in this its less and less powerful as time goes on.

wow Cali that Christy and Hank story is sad. I hope Hank came out of it a better person and moved on to happiness.

Its a shame Christy only broke free after Jerrys death.
All so sad and messed up.

as per your sitch,, divorce is welcoming. Mine went through last year and it was a relief to be no longer tied to my XW.
You are at a great place.

of course the initial shock of seeing those final papers hits you, only because we never imagined it ever happening this way. We thought life was great, happy mirage, kids, house, family. This MLC, no one should be married to them in this state. They need to be alone.

Keep your path, i followed you from the beginning of my arrival here. So glad I did.

take care

Irish ...Thank you. I ponder if I would be further along had divorce happened quicker .. but as in all things they happen when they are supposed to happen and as I touched on I honestly believe we both need this to move forward.

What a sad story about Christy and her choices, and one I hear over, and over, and over again. Part of me wonders if their regret isn't so much about the people they left, the lives they shattered, but that it didn't play out the way they hoped. I still see so much selfishness in the stories, but being on the other side, I may not be able to see it any other way.

Cali, you sound solid and I am so happy to hear that. Being in the place of acceptance can be so helpful in dealing with the crazy, such as the settlement proposed to you. Good for you for standing up for yourself.

M

M ... I still see you as my DB-sis ... so glad to see you around and so many here could learn a TON from you.

Cali, I'm very curious if you know what happened to "Hank"??

bttrfly

Honestly I have no idea. Not alot of people are still around from back when all that happened, the tidbits I got were all those pieces of information that simply confirmed more that it was MLC, Christy lost a sister, the M was on the rocks for a few years leading to this, he was a solid guy and floored when it all went down ..... things we all can relate to. At this point I hear he is doing well but could not tell you if there is anyone in his life or not.

I found the story just as you all did ... one we hear about often and not sure if that's to give people hope or as some of us have had to learn, the hardest lesson, how long this stuff takes. I know for me I had to learn some very tough lessons along the way and could not have learned them any other way than going through this crisis, I am stronger and better for it and continue to try to learn from it all to be better.

[Treasur]

I do feel a bit mean about it, because I also love my pre-MLC H, but yup, I don't want him to skip off to a happy life full of sunshine and peace. I resent that he's been cuddled up with a cooing OW all the nights I've been sobbing and sleeping alone. I don't want him to have a happy life when he blew mine up into a million pieces and polluted it with lies, death threats, drama, lawyer's fees and infidelity.

I think that's just being human really. It comforts me that no matter how big a mess I'm dealing with now, the facts suggest that he is starting his new life medicated, impotent, overweight and almost bankrupt with nothing more than his job and OWs house to live in for free. Mean right?

[Brubeck]

I keep meaning to add in this conversation here, then someone else posts something that just makes me nod along, saying - "Yep yep".

We have lived this nightmare for years .. not just days/weeks... years. Hearing and seeing the MLCr put on that front they are happy and better off without us leaves a mark regardless if they truly are happy or not it makes us question ourselves and our marriage down to the core level as MLC has a wonderful way of flipping ones life/marriage/family on its ear leaving all those effected grasping for answers.

I think that's just being human really. It comforts me that no matter how big a mess I'm dealing with now, the facts suggest that he is starting his new life medicated, impotent, overweight and almost bankrupt with nothing more than his job and OWs house to live in for free. Mean right?

Yikes, it's creepy when someone else reads my mind this well.

I have the same angry, hateful thoughts towards my W that many others have expressed here. Awful wishes. Thoughts that aren't good for one's spirit. I don't want to hurt her myself, I just want her backwards thinking to trip her up - massively. I see fleeting moments of her depression and a good share of wacky behavior to let me know she's not all there, but there are still days when I want her to trainwreck nonetheless. I don't want this to work out for her.

These MLC stories provide the strangest combination of assurance and sadness. You learn what your spouse is doing is mostly "script", and it helps to not take it so personally, but the stories also suggest how this story is probably going to end.

Then you read the LBS stories, and again, we're all reacting in similar ways. It seems unbearable at times, and I think I'm just not made to deal with this huge MESS she's made. I remind myself I'm still probably better off compared to them...as they are trying to create happiness out of lies.

[OwnIt]

Brubeck you are definitely better off. Don't question that one for a moment.

[Treasur]

I get you Brubeck. The most important thing you said though is that "I don't want to hurt her myself." Tbh, I would struggle to see how I could hurt my H more than he has hurt himself. He has made a huge mess in his own life. Will he ever repair that? No idea. I'd guess a lot of people would find it easier to persuade themselves that either they had no choice or keep telling themselves that new life/spouse/persona is so brilliant that it was worth it.

I think we want to see more of a train wreck (albeit one where we are safely stood to one side with a cup of coffee!) for two reasons. The first is about wanting to be proven right, I guess, to be validated that it wasn't a good thing, that it wasn't our fault, that destruction is not the route to a good life. Probably a bit self-serving....I don't know if my H will look back in years to come and see this as a great positive turn in his life. I suppose I just believe that good things don't come from such a dark place but I could be wrong. Maybe OW is a rare jewel and he will be ecstatically happy and a great H with a great new life who sees our 18 years as a terrible diversion from the person he was meant to be. No idea.

The second reason is perhaps a bit more healthy and loving. We see someone we care about in chaos and self-destruction and we believe that they have to hit rock bottom to ever heal and be healthy again. Whether with us or not. We love them enough that we want better for them than they are currently creating for themselves. We have no idea how much worse it will need to get, but we want them to be whole and healthy again. So far, the things that they have lost and destroyed have obviously not been enough to get to that place and that's hard to understand.

The bit of me that loves the H I knew knows that he would not have woken up one morning and said 'New life goals, I know...destroy my M, distress everyone who cares about me, take ADs and hang around with psychiatrists, go back on all my old values and beliefs, put on 3 stone, make myself bankrupt and homeless. Sounds great, where's my notebook to make an action plan!" I'd like my beloved to reach a place of peace and joy and health again, and looking as objectively as I can from the outside, this isn't it. But it is out of my hands and I may never know what happens to him.

[SBJ]

Well put Treasur...on both accounts. We don't wish our MLC'er to actually get hurt because we love them, but just like an infected sore, sometimes it has to hurt very bad before it heals and feels better. The MLC'er will never be able to comprehend the amount of pain and suffering they have put the LBS thru. Even if they lose the other person it can never be compared to the hurt the LBS felt because their relationship has been built upon lies and deceit. It was never real.

As far as our MLC'er getting the justice "we" feel that they deserve...some people call it karma, some call it the scales of justice, some people call it the wrath of God. Whatever you decide to call it, know that in the right time, justice will be handed out. For that I am certain.

[Treasur]

Well put Treasur...on both accounts. We don't wish our MLC'er to actually get hurt because we love them, but just like an infected sore, sometimes it has to hurt very bad before it heals and feels better. The MLC'er will never be able to comprehend the amount of pain and suffering they have put the LBS thru. Even if they lose the other person it can never be compared to the hurt the LBS felt because their relationship has been built upon lies and deceit. It was never real.

Funnily enough, I've been thinking of my STBXH as a cancer in my life and D like chemotherapy today!
I guess I don't think pain is a competitive sport. I don't know my H is now, but in the first few several months pre-OW, he was a hollow, numb, suicidal shell. I know he was suffering then. Since then I know no more about his hurt than he knows of mine.
I don't feel our M or life together was built on lies or deceit actually. I've looked at it rationally, but my gut says no. I know my H, as he was before his breakdown, loved me deeply. I have no reason before this crisis to think otherwise or to think he was unfaithful in the past. I don't know what happened to break him or why our M was a price he wanted to pay, but I know he loved me and believed in our M. Until he didn't. Eventually, I think you have to cut through the crap and trust your own instinct and that's mine. Like Occam's Razor, the most obvious explanation based on the facts as I see them is a) he had some unaddressed FOO/emotional chickens b) we loved each other and our life kept the chickens in a drawer c) they got noisier and a rough life chain of loss and illness pushed him to his own limit d) it is hard to feel love and connection when severe depression grabs you and e) he made some really crappy choices in how to deal with his depression which destroyed our M and made a huge mess for both of us. Both of us will have to live with the fallout from that. He chose his path and I'm choosing mine.

As far as our MLC'er getting the justice "we" feel that they deserve...some people call it karma, some call it the scales of justice, some people call it the wrath of God. Whatever you decide to call it, know that in the right time, justice will be handed out. For that I am certain.

I'd like my STBXH to find a healthy route forward for himself. He has hurt me, but the self-destruction of erasing 20 years of your life, good and bad, and the mess he's in now isn't good. I fear that he may never stop running because the more damage he's created, the harder it will be to look at it. Yet I hope he will hit a place that hurts enough to trigger his return to life as a healthy man who doesn't need to hurt and control and hide. So, maybe less God's wrath than God's grace is what I hope for him but I will never know I guess.

[CaliGuy]

Well its been awhile, finally some things to update for me.


I received a text last Friday from the MLCr "Check your email please"... this has been her usual contact method, like she wants to record all non-S10 logistic issues on email. I read the email and its asking me to look into putting S10 on my medical as "Unfortunately my position at CompanyX has been terminated effective immediately" (Side note since her crisis started 2011-2012ish this is job #6 she has gone through after being at the same company 13 years)

Thoughts on this for me range all over the place. This was another 'dream job' for her but I also know it was more than she could handle. Was a very well paying job to which I had/have reservations on how that affects the D process (more on that later) I can not help but wonder how that karma bus seems to make frequent stops in her direction, but its all seems to be reality checks with the never ending quest for happiness. As I was told (by her lawyer of all people) she was at Level 7 but really only equipped for Level 6 type work so this was just something she was not able to perform at and was to much for her. Now the timing on this is suspect but out of my control and like everything else probably to late in the grand scheme of things from the advice I have received this week as it pertains to the Divorce process.

So as I mention I received that nugget Friday, yesterday (Wednesday) was another court date. This one basically telling the judge we can not agree on terms so its simply to set a mandatory mediation date. I arrive early as in my character, no one is there at the time of the hearing, Judge asks me and I had no idea where MLCr or Lawyer is .... he pushes another case infront of mine during which her lawyer arrives, its a quick 5 minutes and we are done. As typical the lawyer likes to negotiate after these hearing and feel me out, this round was no different with the exception she seems to be getting frustrated with me and my reluctance to jump at any offer she presents.

She started twisting numbers and showing me how MLCrs current situation impacts things (seen that coming), then she tossed in a few other issues which I was not willing to accept (controlling type issues from MLCr where I can live, motorcycle, movies S10 and I watch together, alcohol ... which is funny as I only drink the nights I DJ, and never at home ... maybe one social event a year (her father was an alcoholic so I am guessing projection here) After I refuse to budge she then throws out this nugget. "Good thing California is a no fault state, MLCr has tols me how you parade women around in front of her and all the sexting you carry on" I actually laughed at that one and asked her to please send me those documents as I would be very interested in all that activity... I sure hope those women are hot. SMH, not sure if the L was lying to get something out of me or if that came from MLCr ... was still one of those head shakers we get with all these gifts they keep sending. So we will see what happens after the holidays are all done and I get back to court in Jan.

Getting out of court fairly early I decided to go pick up S10 vs going back to work for a few hours, its been wicked hot here... 3 digit hot and on the coast its just unheard of for this time of year, so we opt'd to go to the movies and sit in a cool theater and sip on a cold drink letting the heat pass over till later in the evening. During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange (had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

So outside of that, I have been pretty focused on work which these days seems to consume a good deal of my time, I hold on to a few GAL activities and for the most part its continuing to get things in order with the hopes of buying a new place in the next few years.

Hope you all are well.

[25yearsmlc]

Well its been awhile, finally some things to update for me.


I received a text last Friday from the MLCr "Check your email please"... this has been her usual contact method, like she wants to record all non-S10 logistic issues on email. I read the email and its asking me to look into putting S10 on my medical as "Unfortunately my position at CompanyX has been terminated effective immediately" (Side note since her crisis started 2011-2012ish this is job #6 she has gone through after being at the same company 13 years)
Thoughts on this for me range all over the place. This was another 'dream job' for her but I also know it was more than she could handle.


well, if it was more than she could handle, that's kind of "it". KWIM? No point in staring at that deal but DO get your son coverage asap. COBRA is insanely expensive.

Was a very well paying job to which I had/have reservations on how that affects the D process (more on that later) I can not help but wonder how that karma bus seems to make frequent stops in her direction, but its all seems to be reality checks with the never ending quest for happiness.

unfortunately it's her puzzle to solve. You can't hover over her shoulder to tell her which piece goes where.


As I was told (by her lawyer of all people) she was at Level 7 but really only equipped for Level 6 type work so this was just something she was not able to perform at and was to much for her.

the L told you this b/c it affects her income - and that affects YOU, as you have guessed.

But the reality sounds like this is just true. So, no point in freaking out about it, at least she'll be employed again soon (from the sounds of it. While having a lot of jobs in a short time CAN sound bad, it also sounds like employability to me!) Maybe that's the L in me, though.


Now the timing on this is suspect but out of my control and like everything else probably to late in the grand scheme of things from the advice I have received this week as it pertains to the Divorce process.

well, her position was eliminated right? Or Do you think the employer did this deliberately? Or are you saying she lost the job on purpose? Because she has lost other jobs recently so I'm not sure - well - very hard to prove anyhow.

Don't get sucked down the rabbit hole.

So as I mention I received that nugget Friday, yesterday (Wednesday) was another court date. This one basically telling the judge we can not agree on terms so its simply to set a mandatory mediation date. I arrive early as in my character, no one is there at the time of the hearing, Judge asks me and I had no idea where MLCr or Lawyer is .... he pushes another case infront of mine during which her lawyer arrives, its a quick 5 minutes and we are done.

As typical the lawyer likes to negotiate after these hearing and feel me out, this round was no different with the exception she seems to be getting frustrated with me and my reluctance to jump at any offer she presents.

Have you countered with an offer of your own?

She started twisting numbers and showing me how MLCrs current situation impacts things (seen that coming), then she tossed in a few other issues which I was not willing to accept (controlling type issues from MLCr where I can live, motorcycle, movies S10 and I watch together, alcohol ... which is funny as I only drink the nights I DJ, and never at home ... maybe one social event a year (her father was an alcoholic so I am guessing projection here) After I refuse to budge she then throws out this nugget. "Good thing California is a no fault state, MLCr has tols me how you parade women around in front of her and all the sexting you carry on"

Okay I'm laughing too. "Yeah GOOD THING!! What about how close Harvey Weinstein and I are??"


FWIW, my h has distorted our marital history beyond recognition. I mean that literally. When I saw the 25 page pleading (in a no fault state!) I swear to you that I had to flip to the back page to check for his signature.

I did not think it was OUR marriage in the pleadings. Jobs I "refused" that never, ever happened. I did not turn down a job the entire time we were married, with the one exception being a job I "refused" b/c H wanted to move to the west coast!

There were nasty jibes and the irony is that it was ALL legally irrelevant so it was all gratuitous.

I did not reply to any of it. It's a public record and for the life of me, I'm not 100% certain why his L would include it. Good grief.

So, join the club. IF a general "Denies all" is sufficient just do that and save your money - assuming it's irrelevant for financial purposes.

I mean, I could have sat on my butt eating bon bons & watching movies all day for years, and at this point it would not matter in court b/c I'm 57 and have a huge gap in my work history which my MD h does not have.

His resume is pristine. (you're welcome, h). I filed where we lived, and it's a no fault state. This angered h b/c I assume the division of assets is better for me?

Good thing for H though, since he cheated and where HE lives, it's called adultery.

Oh well



I actually laughed at that one and asked her to please send me those documents as I would be very interested in all that activity... I sure hope those women are hot. SMH, not sure if the L was lying to get something out of me or if that came from MLCr

My guess is that some form of this came from your wife. I'm a lawyer so this divorce is the first time I've ever been the client.

I'm very, very sorry to say, I'm underwhelmed with my profession. For some reason h's lawyer passes ugly irrelevant comments on to mine, and she passes them on to me. I told her not to bother unless it's legally relevant. (One was that h "would rather be a pauper than pay me a cent". After 35 years of marriage, really?? And what's the point on that, to show me he'll fight??? Okay I guess we have no choice. Trial time!)

H is still my kids' dad and I don't need to know all the latest "Sh1t" he says, to be honest. It hurts my feelings and it does NOT make me want to settle much. So why counter in a public document? These things are not that easy to seal from what I understand.

So either your w intimated this, made it up wholly, or her L was willing to probe on false grounds. Very Hard for me to believe that her L would make it up, but frankly, I'm not as sure as I would have been a year ago.

IF the lawyer blurted that out on their own, it's very odd. Also -bear in mind that your w may blame her lawyer for anything that does not work out well for HER. Don't just assume that is true. Lawyers CAN make things worse but usually, (I hope) it's based on what a client tells them.

Even So, it's unprofessional of the L to say that if you were unrepresented at the time. And if your L was there, let them speak for you. For future reference, try not to respond to the wife's lawyer . It cannot help you. I repeat that for emphasis, your unofficial words to her lawyer cannot help you. If needed, a simple "that's not true" is sufficient. No rhetorical sarcasm - though I share the tendency with you.

Wife's lawyer can take your words and NOT help you with them. You cannot be helped by responding to your w's lawyer without your L present.
Sorry. And Sheesh.


Getting out of court fairly early I decided to go pick up S10 vs going back to work for a few hours, its been wicked hot here... 3 digit hot and on the coast its just unheard of for this time of year, so we opt'd to go to the movies and sit in a cool theater and sip on a cold drink letting the heat pass over till later in the evening.

During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange

how do you know it struck him as strange? just curious and you can act as if it's not strange, since you are his parents. And let's face it, it's not really strange. It was unexpected but We would all like to know what our spouse's are thinking.


(had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

Correct; it's hers to tell. Oh and you are right not to read into her question.

(And yes - God knows it's much easier said than done!).

maybe Remind yourself that IF IF IF she ever has a seismic change inside

and wants to reconcile AND tells you, then let's cross that bridge then. I spent enough time inside my h's head and getting nowhere, to pass that advice on to you.

Projecting a calm life and inner peace, and being the rock for your son, is the best you can do and it's the healthy way to live.

[AndrewP]

During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange (had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

Ignoring the MLC label - if you think of them just as someone who lies, you can reasonably expect that they believe that everyone else does too and that they would try to protect themselves from it.

My kids are significantly older and we have boundaries where I don't ask about their mother and they don't tell me. On the other hand, especially as the settlement was being negotiated I am quite positive that she pressured S23 into passing on information. Since I've told my kids that I have no secrets from them or their mother I'm "fine" with that although annoyed that she would do such a thing.

It's interesting to me from the perspective that I have now that you've not made any efforts to get some closure. I know we've talked about it before. I'm perhaps more risk averse than you are which is where I was absolutely concerned about where "crazy train" might be headed and wanted to get off. You still seem to be holding a ticket on that ride. You don't have to answer, but have you given hard thought to what the end goal is for you? We can I think assume that your W isn't "coming home" any time soon, if at all. So why prolong things?

As I said - you don't have to answer here. And thanks for your past support on my own journey.

[CaliGuy]

During which S10 tells me MLC asked about how I was and asked S10 if I ever ask about her which struck him as strange (had to say it gave me pause but then I quickly shrugged it off as its just one of those things I think they go through). He is not aware she lost her job and I have taken the position its not my story to tell.

Ignoring the MLC label - if you think of them just as someone who lies, you can reasonably expect that they believe that everyone else does too and that they would try to protect themselves from it.

My kids are significantly older and we have boundaries where I don't ask about their mother and they don't tell me. On the other hand, especially as the settlement was being negotiated I am quite positive that she pressured S23 into passing on information. Since I've told my kids that I have no secrets from them or their mother I'm "fine" with that although annoyed that she would do such a thing.

It's interesting to me from the perspective that I have now that you've not made any efforts to get some closure. I know we've talked about it before. I'm perhaps more risk averse than you are which is where I was absolutely concerned about where "crazy train" might be headed and wanted to get off. You still seem to be holding a ticket on that ride. You don't have to answer, but have you given hard thought to what the end goal is for you? We can I think assume that your W isn't "coming home" any time soon, if at all. So why prolong things?

As I said - you don't have to answer here. And thanks for your past support on my own journey.

Closure is a topic that gets tossed around a bit in the circle I am a part of. I am not sure if there really is ever closure on something like this where a long term marriage is terminated basically by one party for confusing reasons, I can say the same about my fathers death I am not sitting around waiting for him to come in the door nor do I think he will .. its the same with the MLCr those dramatic events like a death or the ending of a marriage in the way it happened I am not sure one ever gets 'closure' sure you work on things, you move on, you accept but it will never make sense and you just have to arrive at a place where you realize it was out of your hands and whats done is done. Hence why there are a few forums like this one to help those cope and give support from people who have lived the similar nightmare, the only reason I still post and update is simply to tell the story from my perspective and TBH I am curious to see how it plays out and ends, not only for myself and my son but for her, something in these 20+ threads may help someone else... I know when I was in the middle of it all I read tons of stories and found parts that I could use in my sitch which in retrospect were pivotal in my journey.

I think all we can really do is achieve acceptance which I completely have and once I did arrive there it helped my healing process along much further. Still in the courts with the divorce process is not a matter of 'holding the ticket' really, it no longer feels like limbo, I will be divorced its just a matter of when at this point as the courts here in California are flooded with so many cases its just a waiting process. My case was filed in Sep16 and we have yet to get to mediation(Jan18).

As far as the inquisition and S10 finding it strange I think he was picking up on her stress about the job and confusing it with who knows what... he told me he found it strange is all and I am thankful he does share his feelings with me on such things, we are pretty open on several things including his crush on Gracie who sits 3 seats away. All I can do is help him through all this as I have and focus on him, tbh she is actually leaps and bounds better with him than a few years ago and I have seen the benefit of that through him. Her getting through this crisis is not about coming to her senses and trying to come back and fix all she has done, to me its just her finding her way out and becoming a better version of herself as I have ... our S10 benefits from that.

[25yearsmlc]

Accepting things we don't understand is a HUGE life lesson.

Especially events that cause us great pain. Refusing to accept - prolongs the pain. And many many people in our world do not ever accept what has been lost.

My bff's athletic 22 y/o son died last year, due to a freak heart defect. She will never understand "why" he died and yet she must go on. She has another son, and a h whom she loves. But her pain is brutal and tbh, a lot of it is probably permanent.

I figure if she can get up every day and get outside and help others and learn to laugh a bit again, and she does, I can. I accept that my m was once a beautiful thing, and it is no longer around, so I move forward in my life.

I will create another beautiful thing, i.e. my life.

Cali, you are doing this^^ and maybe someday after the dust has settled, you'll date.

I bet the water is warm when you dive in.

[Sotto]

Hi Cali, it's good to hear from you and I'm glad to hear you're generally doing well - despite recent challenges. It isn't easy going through the D process. You've been here a while now and you do handle things very calmly - but don't take any chit either - which I admire.

Yes, in many ways it is easier if your spouse runs headlong into the D process and finalises it relatively quickly as mine did. That way it is taken out of your hands and your spouse is no longer your spouse and it is easier to move on (for me anyway.) I'm not sure where I would be if XH hadn't filed for D. But in many ways I'm grateful he did.

I think the whole areas of acceptance and assimilation are really important. It has been a big area of learning for me - to loose the control and let others be and live as they see fit. To do the same myself - and integrate the difficult experience of our marital breakdown into my life and move forward.

Your situation still isn't ideal and you are still navigating some rough waters. However, who you are and how you are shines through in all of your postings, and that is what really matters at the end of the day - X happened and Y happened - but through these, I managed to carry myself in a way I can look back and feel proud and at peace.

Take care Cali xx

[bttrfly]

Cali you are such a rock star, really you are. All about the boy, and that's as it should be.

From a woman's perspective, the question isn't strange. She's wondering about your life now.

The lawyer's comments? I would have been so tempted to fire back a comment about wife's STD but then again, I am not as Zen as you are, lol. Your way is better. Much, much better.

You continue to impress with your approach and responses to this process. The business end, which you are now traversing, is hard. I have no doubt that you will move through it with your usual grace and acceptance.

Thank you for continuing to share with us here. You've helped so many by doing so - me included. xoxoxo have a great weekend!

[kml]

The sexting comment definitely came from your wife. She's trying to keep the lawyer on her side by making you out to be the bad guy, is simply "say none of that is true and your client is lying to you"

[Gordie]

Cali,

As a fan who has read all 20 threads, I can say yes, they are very helpful. You have shared some very hard earned wisdom that no book or counselor could share. In terms of closure or acceptance, you and Andrew may be talking about the same thing using different words. I do think it is different in that your son is only 10 and not 23. Both of you have gotten off your w’s Crazy trains in your own healthy way.

[Brubeck]

Hi Cali,

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you've reached real detachment. You're pretty much off the crazy train, and when your MLCer forces you to get back on it, you see it for what it is. I envy your great perspective on things. The experience only sounds like half the story, the other half is how it's interpreted, which sounds really advanced on your part (the sexting comments would have set me off).

There are brief moments I find myself with time to spare, and I think to call a friend for dinner or beers or a movie. Then I realize that's a waste of time, because I am in - as you've said - "monk mode". Ha ha. That one goes in the record books.

[CaliGuy]

Well its been a bit since I have updated ... I actually debated if I would or not but as this story has gone I feel in a way I would be remiss if I didn't

So big part of my story is I am officially divorced. Went final 1/11/2018 after being filed back in 9/23/2016. It was a long drawn out process to say the least.

I did not really want to post just for the fact so many here are facing it and in many ways holding onto hope just as I was in the early days, I actually seen it as small victories as I went through 3 ... yes 3.... failed meditations only for things to finally end up in the courts, and again there things were drawn out. I honestly dropped rope in Feb15 consciously, it was the unconscious battles that took its toll and time to finally detach and let her go about her own journey that no one can know the outcome nor duration.

As far as my feeling, I let it sink in for about a week before I was going to post here, just to make sure I really was feeling what I was feeling and I will be honest ... the day in court seeing her I was reminded how beautiful I always found her, but also reminded how I just do not know who that person is anymore. There was a bit of sadness and remorse that day. Once I left the court I actually felt lighter, that cloud that has been over my head for 4 1/2 years had some serious weight and in a sense I felt free, not last day of school free but more like graduation free where its mixed in with a touch of uncertainty but you have faith things are going to be just fine.

I will say this ... out of all the things that happened over the past 4 1/2 years I know now I needed to learn the hard earned lessons that only this type of thing can bring, I am light years away from Cali 1.0 and so so thankful for all I have learned .. much from this forum, thank you all of you and you know who you are .. some here and some have not posted in ages..... I have grown, and become so much more aware and at peace with it all than I could ever articulate.

As far as my MLCr, I can not tell you much concerning her, the NC has been pretty standard for the past 2 years, her lawyer did tell me that MLCr desperately wants to show S10 we respect and care for each other (unsure what to take from that but with all things MLC ... actions not words) I shared I did believe we could successfully co-parent and maybe one day be friends but currently my priority is S10 and the new life I have been handed. S10 shared she had been crying all weekend but over several things (She never once told him of the divorce) She had family affected by the flood up north (All are fine and were clear from harms way) and ExMIL was in the hospital with kidney issues something MLRr is worried about that she will one day become MIL in and out of hospitals all the time telling S10 its because she worries so much (Mush of the issues I have always felt were from stress tbh) . She did look like the bad side of town when I collected S10 Monday, but I really did not question why till S10 mentioned how his day was with her.

So now with all that said and done I am moving into a much bigger place, the financial cloud over my head is gone and I know where I stand its refreshing to be able to go after those things without the D hanging over my head. As far as the settlement .. I know I left a good deal of money on the table short term, long term was my concern and I won all those battles so its a deal I felt was fair and I could live with.

I hope you all are well

[bttrfly]

{{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}
I'm sorry it came to this, but ... you now have the rest of your life ahead of you to do with as you please, a beautiful son who loves you very much and an open road ahead.

You've come through the worst of it, and are thriving on the other side. I know immediately post D for me I felt really good. I then famously crashed I think in large part because I'd been living on adrenalin for a number of years. I don't think you'll have that same dip.

You've grown so much just in the time I've been here. I'm sure you and your son will have a wonderful fresh start - somewhat bittersweet - but yes, I think you are going to be just fine.

Congratulations on the new place. You've waited a long time to have that financial cloud gone. Glad the limbo is over, even though this isn't the preferred outcome.

xoxoxoxo

[job]

Cali,
I, too, am sorry it came to a divorce, but you fought long and hard for your marriage. Now, your next chapter to your life's book can be written w/a clean slate. I can't wait to see what you do in the near future.

I am so glad you are getting a new place. It's the start of many new beginnings for you. The financial cloud isn't so heavy now and you can begin to think of things that you would like to do w/the money as time marches on.

Cali, your xw was a fool...but she may figure that out in the future. For now...continue moving forward and enjoy your new found freedom and the new beginning.

[mirage]

Cali,

There was a quote I saw from Jung that hit after reading your update.

"Man needs difficulties; they are necessary for health"

Your journey should be inspiring to those that come next on these boards.

Mirage

[Gordie]

Cali,

As Mirage notes, you do inspire others like me so want to add my thanks that you continue to post your own story as well as offer advice to lost souls like me.

[LouR]

Hi Cali,

Thank you for dropping by with your update. I am sad to read that after how hard and long you stood for your m, it has ended this way. But as you point out, you have become a very different version of yourself, you shed the skin of Cali 1.0 long ago and have evolved in to ....well we must be on Cali 3.0 by now I think!!

I have been with you on your journey for a long time and ridden the highs and lows with you, I have cheered from the sidelines with my everso colourful pom poms, and you have been with me on my journey, being my support, my confidant and hitting me with the odd reality check when I needed one. Cali, thank you for allowing me to be in your life, I quite understand if you do step away from here, but would be so happy to hear how you are doing from time to time and also as always appreciate your wise wisdom and advice.

Your state of Limbo is now over and I wish you so much happiness and internal peace moving forwards.

[[hugs to you Cali ]] xoxo

[SBJ]

Cali, sorry on the finality of your d, but I concur with the weird elated feeling after the papers were signed. My sitch was much shorter than yours from BD to D and I simply don't know which is best, but I want you to know that you and your son are in my prayers daily.

Thank you for all of your support to not only me, but to everyone here. I'm confident that all of the people here are better for getting your advice and a 2x4 here and there.

[Sotto]

Hi Cali, I'm sorry to read that your divorce was finalised. As others have said, I truly feel that you gave your all to trying to save your marriage, and there is much peace in knowing that.

I agree that Cali 2.0 may be an underestimation! You have come a long way and I always find your postings to be wise, thoughtful and kind. Always worth reading.

Whilst you didn't save your marriage, you are someone who faced a truly tough situation and have managed to work your way through it with dignity and strength. A true success story in so many ways.

I am glad for you that the burden is lifted and, whilst sad, I felt the same and the divorce finalising did help me move further forward. I hope you'll continue to post and offer your sage advice to others as you truly are a gem on this forum.

I look forward to hearing how the next chapter of your life unfolds my friend xx

[mleigh4]

Cali, I know you never wanted this and fought hard for your marriage. I am sorry it came to this and will always respect and admire your class and dignity throughout it.

To not have this hanging over your head, to know where you stand, must be refreshing. As I never wanted to be divorced either, I envy that place.

You now have a blank page before you, with super Cali powers and wisdom under your belt. I have no doubt that amazing things are in your future. Take your time to adjust and hopefully enjoy the freedom to begin a new life for you and S. I look forward to hearing about your new adventures.

Sending big hugs your way and thank you for your continued support.

M

[Coly23]

Hi Cali, I too am sorry to hear that your divorce is final. You have travelled a long and sometimes difficult road but hopefully you have now come to a new stretch of road with some exciting and happy times ahead.

(((Cali)))

[HaWho]

Cali - just want to say that you shouldered more than your fair share when it came to standing. Like so many others here, you learned to re-build from this huge mess that is her life.

Thank you for all the advice you've always given me. I wish you continued strength, growth and peace.

[Irish M]

Hi Cali

So sorry man. You are an amazing guy. She lost big time.
I don’t see your story as a failure here. Yes when I first came here I saw hope in your story. I hoped you would get your family back. It gave me hope for mine.

When it didn’t happen and now the divorce not once did I think you failed.

I got to know a man who I admire. The strength that you show is what I saw in your journey. You win my friend. She lost.

Take care
Irish

[CaliGuy]

Well hello all ....

It seems like its been years since I have posted, I will come in and read up from time to time but seldom post as in a way it just seems rude to bust in someones thread who has no idea who I am and offer advice that's generally already been given though I might re-word it somehow.

Was reading my last posts/threads ... seems like reading someone else's life to be honest. So for those new keeping score ... I am about 5 years past the good ole BD, 3 I think failed mediation attempts and finally divorced the beginning of this year. I have done a good deal of reading, healing, work work and more work between the ears to get to where I am at this moment. I firmly believe the MLC process is much more about the LBS than the MLCr just for the simple fact they will never remotely think they have a problem until the exhaust all those rabbit holes, we are forced into the mirror work well ahead of their time line. I also believe there is a gender issue on how us guys heal vs you ladies ... certain things I think hit us harder and take more time to truly work through.

That being said .. update wise. The MLCr is still on and off again with OM as far as I know. She has yet to re-introduce to S11 (He is not a fan of the fella for previous reasons) She rarely makes eye contact when I collect S11 every other Saturday but the past few months she does not hesitate to call for things concerning S11.

As far as me, I did date for a hiccup and got past that "This is weird" phase ... but have yet to meet anyone who really checks off all the boxes .. along with the fact I am just far to busy really to have much more than a friendship type relationship with anyone ... I am sure at some point this will change but for now I am content and enjoying the time I have with my son, we go fishing, went on vacation to Colorado and had a snowball fight in the mountains in July .. just making memories and enjoying the time.

The reason I decided to post, was just to let you all know who m are still up to your necks in the crisis is regardless of what your MLCr has done, is doing or will do .. if you work on yourself and let them to their own journey you will be just fine. I really never knew how toxic and bad things were for me till I was able to climb out of that pit and look at it from a different perspective. Granted it took a LONG time but I look back and smile at the good times, shake my head at the bad and really accepted ... key word ACCEPTED (Not understood) what has happened and this is my next chapter where ever it may lead.

There is light on the other side if you focus on you .. I promise you this.

Best wishes

Cali

[job]

So glad you returned and posted an update. Please, don't be a stranger. There are many newbies who could use your advice and wisdom while traveling their respective paths.

[Westo]

Great to hear from you CaliGuy and good to know you are doing so well.

I’ve often thought that it must be harder for men who’s W are in MLC. It’s just something I’ve always believed and the reason I’ve never been able to offer advice to any men on this board.

Anyway, as Job says ‘don’t be a stranger’.

[CaliGuy]

So glad you returned and posted an update. Please, don't be a stranger. There are many newbies who could use your advice and wisdom while traveling their respective paths.

Thank you Job .....I will try to bounce in a bit more often ...

Great to hear from you CaliGuy and good to know you are doing so well.

I’ve often thought that it must be harder for men who’s W are in MLC. It’s just something I’ve always believed and the reason I’ve never been able to offer advice to any men on this board.

Anyway, as Job says ‘don’t be a stranger’.

I am not so sure its harder (having never been a woman!! ..lol) , but I do feel its definitely different. Reading the various MLC-threads/sites and all if one were to believe the "timeline" its longer got a MLCW than a MLCH for whatever reason you would like to believe. I know for me personally I really had to rebuild myself and become more of a man in some regards. I think as a long term relationship gets abruptly derailed and there is an OM all the sudden it eats away at our core. It was more than just the mirror work for me, it was re-learning those traits and qualities that made me... dare I say attractive to the opposite sex. Ladies are more drawn to confidence in a man and when you have had your SO of 20+ years cheat openly and unashamed it will rock any dude, this has to be rebuilt from the floor up IMHO as you just can not fake it till you make it in the confidence arena. The site here and others helped me wrap my head around the MLC crisis and let me know I was not alone, however the healing part of all this came slowly and in little steps along with the rebuilding process.

[kml]

How's the music going? I'm playing vibraphone for my friend Sunday at the Carlsbad music festival. Glad to hear you're healing.

[AndrewP]

Hey CaliGuy! - (waves)

[Gordie]

Cali

Always enjoy your updates

Definitely breaks the spirit of a man

And takes a while to pick up the pieces

Thanks for showing the way

[Brubeck]

Cali, you are such a welcome voice. Love reading your updates and posts elsewhere. You seem to be further down the trail than the rest of us, and you offer resonant perspective on what this all has brought you.

I will come in and read up from time to time but seldom post as in a way it just seems rude to bust in someones thread who has no idea who I am and offer advice that's generally already been given though I might re-word it somehow.

Oh, d@mn. I didn't think of that. I bust in on newbie threads and give my 2 cents without a proper introduction. Ha ha.

She rarely makes eye contact when I collect S11 every other Saturday but the past few months she does not hesitate to call for things concerning S11.

Check and check. I get no eye contact, and when I pick up my kids if XW can get them out the door without showing her face, she does. She only communicates via text, and only about money.

I think as a long term relationship gets abruptly derailed and there is an OM all the sudden it eats away at our core. It was more than just the mirror work for me, it was re-learning those traits and qualities that made me... dare I say attractive to the opposite sex. Ladies are more drawn to confidence in a man and when you have had your SO of 20+ years cheat openly and unashamed it will rock any dude, this has to be rebuilt from the floor up IMHO as you just can not fake it till you make it in the confidence arena.

This is tough medicine to take but I'm glad to hear this from you. There are times I tell myself "I think I'm more screwed up than I know, but I don't know how or why" - I wonder if this is related to all of this.

Thanks for the update.

[CaliGuy]

How's the music going? I'm playing vibraphone for my friend Sunday at the Carlsbad music festival. Glad to hear you're healing.

Still at it ... Its a blessing and a curse, definateyl keeps me busy as it consumes 8 nights a month where I only have 14 "Free nights" that I do not have my son so that leaves me 6 days a month (2 weekends and 2 week days) free to clean the house, got out here and there or just catch up on some rest/reading.


Hey Andrew hope all is well.

Brubeck .... yeah I am a bit down the road in some regards but still on that same road of recovery and healing. The current focus I personally have is to try and let go of some of the angst ... ya know that shattered picture of what I always thought would have been and replace it with what is. I am not angry nor bitter but I will say one never plans to be 'here' ... dating is strange, gatherings ... strange, just day to day life is sometimes strange .. not in a bad way just different.

[Irish M]

hi Cali

caught up with your updates. I see you are still walking tall and doing your thing. I know we all have our bad days but to think too much on what you had or wish was still the norm doesn't help.

In my case she is not someone I would date. She is not the one I fell in love with. That person is no more.

For my kids, i truly hope some day my girls will have some sort of relationship with their mom. Until then, I will stand strong for them

Hope you are having this great weather we are having in the north east. Summer couldn't have been better this year.

Cheers !

[Irish M]

need an update Cali, miss you buddy . Hope all is well

[CaliGuy]

need an update Cali, miss you buddy . Hope all is well

Whats up Irish .... all good here hope you are well my man. It took me a solid day to figure out how even find my thread!!!

Not sure why I popped in here other than just to see if I could see any names I recognize, feels like walking through the high school hallways in your 30's or something along those lines. I have been reflecting a bit, on life, my journey and looking at that fella in the mirror who has a couple greys but for the most part is one good looking fella.

So those of you who know ... know .. but if you are new i will try to just sum up shortly, BD was what SEP13, on my birthday (Ya have to love those MLC'rs and the timing). I was not the poster-boy DB'r ... stubborn and stupid 100% but some of the vets here forced me to answer the hard questions and do the homework. my MLCr had a short spot of what seemed like clarity from MAR15 to about SEP15 but shot herself back into the tunnel I dropped rope and walked FEB16 after the epic 'Glamour shot' of 2016. Divorce was final JAN18 and its been pretty quiet for the most part, however I am not sure about all the MLCrs out there but mine is absolutely seasonal, Cold in Sep-Jan and warm Mar-Apr ... so she is currently in the "find a reason to talk to Cali" Camp at the moment, I am cordial and dare I say nice, but also keep her at arms length as I know the predictable pattern. The conversations have been mostly S12 oriented (The Tween years have been a challenge with my little-big dude) and the XW is pushing for "family-dinners" (I cringe at that family word still) .... I have not said no but replied with a 'We will see" approach as I do love to eat my meals awkward and drama free if at all possible.

As far as me, I have been in and out of a relationship with someone (Currently monk mode and really at peace to be honest) .... I think its finally done but every time I say it out loud I think she hears me and we end up back together again, sometimes its her, sometimes its admittedly me. Dating at this point feels like going to the junkyard looking for a car, they are all wrecks and its about finding one that wont get you killed!! Problem is my free time, I just have very little, I took up that GAL thing so bad it almost hurts. That motorcycle I bought, kayaking, softball, fishing, and now me and S12 are playing Rambo and going Paint-balling twice a month (I highly recommend this .... I have 354 confirmed kills). I have been just focused on doing my stuff and continuing to read/grow/learn if someone comes along and sparks my interest great ... if not that's cool too I am just very indifferent about relationships at the moment in a wild go with the flow vibe.

So as far as MLC..., 5 1/2 years post BD, I do notice XW does seem more normal than batsh!t cray, for this I am thankful just for my sons sanity (and I will welcome not wearing the spew jacket), as bad as we have it those kids do not have the luxury of going dark. I think for anyone who is fairly new to this situation I feel compelled to tell you, just relax and give yourself a break. Looking back I now accept there was NOTHING I could have done, no words I could have said, no tranq-dart I could have shot into her neck that would not have set MLC into motion nor saved my marriage. I was not the best husband and at the time was not really going down the road for father of the year. I think for myself and what I have seen in others (Irish comes to mind) is you are forced to be both parents as the MLCr goes through the crisis, its not all bad and I am so happy for that aspect. She does seem to be doing more things with him even if its more what she wants. OM is still in the picture as far as I know, however he moved some time ago up to San Fran, seems she goes up there once every 6 moths from what I can tell.

So that is about all on my end, hope you all are well .... I may bounce around a bit here and sell some STFU smoothies and see if anyone is in the market for a well used spew jacket.

[bttrfly]

Cali!!!!
HUGS! So great to "see" you! Thanks for the update. You're 18 months ahead of me and have always been a beacon of light in the morass of darkness.

Gotta say though you're really giving me food for thought with the junk yard analogy re: potential future partners. Yikes!

Glad you've found your peace. I don't need any smoothies at the moment, but that and the spew jacket might be necessary in my sitch in a few as I'm going to have to contact re finances and I dread it. Actually, I think I'm in the market for something a little more substantial than a jacket - a full blown force field comes to mind!

Anyway, glad you're doing well and hang on for the tween into teen years. It's going to challenge your creativity, in a good way!

xoxoxoxoxoxo

[Brubeck]

Hi Cali,

Love seeing your updates, and I think you understand when I say I'm glad they are only once in a while - because you're out there GALing. You've always been a step ahead of me and a few others here. Nice to hear that you're connecting with a possible significant other, even if it's on-again-off-again.

[Irish M]

Hey Cali

Good hearing from you. not easy relationships after MLC. I am in one now but sometimes its hard. Flash backs of another time hit me ever so often of a life I cant even imagine that was mine. A life I know i will never go back to. I am so much better off.

I think its more the fact the girls don't see their mom at all. Soon to be 4 years that bothers me most.

Happy to hear the spew jacket is no longer needed. I'm also happy to hear you are still growing a strong relationship with your son. Nothing can replace that.

You are in a good place. one can only smile.

Irish

[HaWho]

Great to see an update.

Laughed out loud at your dating/junkyard analogy. Too funny.

Good to see you doing so well!

[CaliGuy]

Hello all .... been wanting to get back here and post for some time and today I just happen to find some free time and felt compelled to share.

Bit of a summary ... man .. seems like another lifetime as I think about it. My BD ... you all still use these letters right??!!?? ... well BD was Sep13 and I took my time to make every mistake in the book about 3 times before I found this site and after some time discovered the MLC area and dove head first into this crappy pool. The amount of things I learned here were life changing as cliche as that sounds ... it seems like an understatement as I would not even recognize what I referred to as Cali 1.0 .... Cali 5.0 is in a great place now.

So the reason I came back just to update .... my MLCr appears to be clearly out of the tunnel. Only took about 6.5 years.... ok I laughed. I know so many here look for hope and answers, I was there too and for me just knowing I was not the only one who had to buy a Spew Jacket and deal with Batsh*t Crazy was a massive amount of comfort.

A bit of her history ... and things that I knew just did not know the impact of it on her. Like I said BD was Sep13, back in Jun12 my father passed away and looking back I mistakenly pinned that event as the death that set her off into the MLC tunnel, that was not entirely true and I will address the real reason shortly. So Death 2012 and full MLC meltdown Sep13, we separate Dec13 and my hell journey begins. Had a very hard Touch and Go where she said all the right things and we got back together for about 8 months late 2014-Feb15 where I discovered Texts and photos sent to OM. She only had one OM, never resorted to drugs/alcohol and for the most part was not to bad a mother with our only son ... now 13. From what I can explain she did not have that "ah ha" moment but just seemed to get gradually better through 2018-2019.

February of this year for the first time we had dinner with our son for his Birthday and to be honest it was only about 20% awkward and I actually enjoyed it. Later on that month she called me up while I was in the middle of dealing with a personal issue and asked if I could give her a ride to her Dr appt ... I agreed. Now to clarify, at this point I have zero interest in reconciliation but she is the mother of my child and I have tried through this entire episode to display acts I want him to remember, and I want him to know I will always care about his mom regardless what happened between us and its been much easier to deal with schedules and events if we get along. So deep down I was skeptical about the fact she wanted me to take her but felt compelled to go along with it. As it turned out over the next 2 weeks and 2 Dr trips later she explained alot to me about what happened. She tearfully apologized about everything she put me through and said I had every reason to hate her. She told me about a retreat she had gone to at the beginning of the year that had 120 abused women. I was obviously confused as we were together for 23 years and I hardly yelled at her let along raised a hand, but I just sat and listened as she let loose. In 2011 her brother was sentenced to prison for 20 years for raping his 15 year old step daughter ... This was the trigger... this made her recall that he also molested her when they were kids. So it set off all sorts of trauma that she was not equipped to deal with but had been going to therapy over the past 2 years and dealing with all this along with the miscarriage that we had which she really struggled with. She told me that her and OM are over and have been for some time, tbh I am at a point where I do not really care about that but I will be honest that I would be more at ease with her being with someone other than that guy.

As for me I was in a pretty serious relationship for a bit but at the moment we are not together as some things happened that triggered me back to these days and I pretty much ended things. I think with my ExW talking about what happened that will help me somehow to continue to work on the issues that I developed over this whole crisis. The work is never done and even now I am back to doing some mirror work and continue to make improvements.

Anyways ... this place helped me so much ... if you all have any questions I will try to stick around for a bit.

[bttrfly]

Cali!!!!! Man it's GREAT to see you!

Wow. What an update! So, how is exw now? In what ways has she changed? In what ways is she the same?

How about you? How has what you went through colored your intimate relationships moving forward? I ask because I feel so stuck .. I've moved lightyears ahead in some areas, but I haven't dated at all. Just feel a wall there when I even think about it. I'd like to blow up that wall, but I'm not sure how to do it.

Anyway, final question - how's your boy doing?

It really is so so so great to read an update from you buddy! I've missed you!! {{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}

[AndrewP]

Hey Cali - good to see your head pop up over the parapet.

It sounds like you are navigating the waters that swirl you around with your head up.

It's interesting that your ex went to counseling for abused women. My own ex was sexually abused as a kid by an uncle in her case. Thinking back, it might have been "his" death that sent her off on her own journey to pixie dust fairy land. It does re-inforce the idea that any sort of serious trauma can jump up and bite you if you don't face it.

I think that a lot of us imagine that what caused everything to blow up involved us but are completely wrong.

Take care old friend.

[CaliGuy]

Cali!!!!! Man it's GREAT to see you!

Bttrfly .... wow someone I actually remember!! How have ya been ??

Wow. What an update! So, how is exw now? In what ways has she changed? In what ways is she the same?

She seems to be doing much much better. She has spent the last couple years working on her relationship with our son which seems to be in a good place, sure she nags and is over protective but there have been situations I have just bluntly told her if she kept pressing him she would lose him and she will back off and make peace with him. She seems much more at ease and not as impulsive like she was in MLC phase, dare I say less selfish. During this Lockdown I do her grocery shopping as she is terrified to get the virus with her weaker immune system... and unlike her she is extremely appreciative, even pre-MLC she was never that way. Its very similar to the person I married so long ago but its like you can tell she went through a war and has come out the other side much more calmer and seems to have a different set of priorities.

How about you? How has what you went through colored your intimate relationships moving forward? I ask because I feel so stuck .. I've moved lightyears ahead in some areas, but I haven't dated at all. Just feel a wall there when I even think about it. I'd like to blow up that wall, but I'm not sure how to do it.

Ugh .,.. so I dated this one girl.."Irish" on and off for a couple years, she helped me in alot of areas then I met someone whom checked off so many of the boxes I was looking for. We got very close very fast and with this I discovered I still am looking for the other shoe to drop, the past issues with xw have given me some trust issues that I did not experience till this year, some justified and some not. The positive part is as bad as the break up was I know I will never face anything like MLC so regardless I know I will be fine but there is still some more work to do when I thought I was darn near a perfect specimen of a man.
I can relate to the wall thing ... thats one Irish never got past, we are still friends but I know she was a bit miffed at not being able to get through that and then someone else did. I think its just a gut thing, you will find someone whom you will not have reservations about but its after so much mirror time and self improvement till you get to a place that you actually deserve to be happy. MLC seemed to me to have an impact, we spent so much time focused on them and being miserable that it was tough to move that focus inward and heal ... heal to a point where we can admit to ourselves we deserve something better. I think I felt in a way I deserved the MLC wrath in some mystical way as punishment for all my wrong-doings.

Anyway, final question - how's your boy doing?

It really is so so so great to read an update from you buddy! I've missed you!! {{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}

My son is amazing, he truly is. He seems to have gone through all this very well. He is taller than I am ... at 13 ...We are guessing he is going to be 6-0 before he is 14...his favorite line is "Dad I still look up to you even if I have to look down" that's about the time I do not care about Child Protective Services and am sure they will side with me for beating him.

[CaliGuy]

Hey Cali - good to see your head pop up over the parapet.

It sounds like you are navigating the waters that swirl you around with your head up.

It's interesting that your ex went to counseling for abused women. My own ex was sexually abused as a kid by an uncle in her case. Thinking back, it might have been "his" death that sent her off on her own journey to pixie dust fairy land. It does re-inforce the idea that any sort of serious trauma can jump up and bite you if you don't face it.

I think that a lot of us imagine that what caused everything to blow up involved us but are completely wrong.

Take care old friend.

TBH I think I spent to much time in my own head about what triggered MLC ... truth be told and looking back it really had no meaning other than the fact I wanted to somehow crack the MLC code and figure it out in hopes I could have somehow cure it. But knowing what really set it off in a way helps me understand it a bit but the real satisfaction is seeing her come out of it even if its almost 10 years since she was triggered.

I told a friend the other day I am at a point I really do hope she finds someone someday, and I NEVER thouhgt I would be saying that ... like ever ... like ever ever.

[bttrfly]

Cali!!!!! Man it's GREAT to see you!

Bttrfly .... wow someone I actually remember!! How have ya been ??

Moved the tent over to the surviving the big D part of the boards a while ago. I'm ok, thanks for asking. Let's see, quick synopsis: Mom had to have a heart valve replacement about 18 months ago (operation or death in 6 months). She came through it well, but Dad was spiraling and passed away last Memorial Day, four days after my stuff got moved into my new house (built next door to them). Mom's now been spiraling since then, fell and broke her femur in half last September. She's now in a wheelchair, I'm working from home during this lockdown and sole caregiver. It's ok. She'll be 94 on Friday. This isn't a long term thing, unfortunately.

Son is not doing great - he's 20 now, and in some trouble and needs to face that his coping skills are bringing him to a very, very dark and self-destructive place. He knows and is taking baby steps, but man, I don't think he can do this without some outside help, which he is somewhat resistant too.


You are 18 months ahead of me on this. I'm wondering if exh will ever come out of the tunnel. he's moved to SF, and the extent of his parenting these days is playing video games nightly with son. This actually might be a good thing, as he's been bullying our son to do stuff his way and that's not helping - it's making things 1000 x worse!

Ugh .,.. so I dated this one girl.."Irish" on and off for a couple years, she helped me in alot of areas then I met someone whom checked off so many of the boxes I was looking for. We got very close very fast and with this I discovered I still am looking for the other shoe to drop, the past issues with xw have given me some trust issues that I did not experience till this year, some justified and some not. The positive part is as bad as the break up was I know I will never face anything like MLC so regardless I know I will be fine but there is still some more work to do when I thought I was darn near a perfect specimen of a man.
I can relate to the wall thing ... thats one Irish never got past, we are still friends but I know she was a bit miffed at not being able to get through that and then someone else did. I think its just a gut thing, you will find someone whom you will not have reservations about but its after so much mirror time and self improvement till you get to a place that you actually deserve to be happy. MLC seemed to me to have an impact, we spent so much time focused on them and being miserable that it was tough to move that focus inward and heal ... heal to a point where we can admit to ourselves we deserve something better. I think I felt in a way I deserved the MLC wrath in some mystical way as punishment for all my wrong-doings.

Hmm .. yeah, that residual ptsd for lack of a better word - maybe the better word is triggers or baggage? I dunno. I hear you though. I went on a coffee date (met online). Eh. Not feeling the chemistry. Nice enough guy, easy to talk to --- but man, violent mentally unstable ex that he's got permanent restraining orders against - yikes. I cannot take that on. I have a friend that I hang out with semi-regularly. Sometimes it seems like he's moving two steps towards being more than friends and of course that's when I bolt in the other direction like a feral cat! Then sometimes I'm the one and he's all "I don't want to be in a relationship until my son is 18" (he's 12) ... he's also a victim of the MLC madness. Geez, it's like Covid- it's freaking EVERYWHERE! We care about each other a lot but last coy conversation around this topic revealed his belief that a romantic relationship would destroy our friendship ... he's probably right.

here's the thing, I'm attracted to him emotionally, intellectually and spiritually but I just won't let myself go there physically. There's another guy friend who is drop dead gorgeous and has so many deal breakers out of the gate that I know it's safe to be attracted because ain't no way anything's gonna happen here, despite his reciprocal attraction to me. So here I sit. I honestly don't know if it's that there is so much else on my plate right now, that a relationship would be the tipping point if it went south, or if I'm just irretrievably broken. Hence the questions. Thanks for your honesty. xoxo as always!

Anyway, final question - how's your boy doing?

It really is so so so great to read an update from you buddy! I've missed you!! {{{{{{{Cali}}}}}}}

My son is amazing, he truly is. He seems to have gone through all this very well. He is taller than I am ... at 13 ...We are guessing he is going to be 6-0 before he is 14...his favorite line is "Dad I still look up to you even if I have to look down" that's about the time I do not care about Child Protective Services and am sure they will side with me for beating him.

Yes! Mine (at just under 6'4" now) pats me on the head routinely ... and calls me shortstack! I'm 5'9"!!! Next to him I'm a shrimp!
Glad your boy is doing great - is he still playing baseball? Big field, right?

Stay safe my friend!!! So good to "see" you! Massive hugs!!

[kml]

hey Cali! HOW is it possible that your son is 13 already!

So interesting about your ex - it's really something how these hidden traumas pop up. Not sure what my ex's was except that he left when our youngest son was the same age that Ex was when his mom left in a MLC. But then he had other problems I've only really been able to see in retrospect.

In my dating post-divorce I've gradually slid towards being more like those Love Avoidant guys I met in the beginning! Not really a Love Avoidant but honestly, I've no interest in actually marrying again and after my experience of the last year and a half, not sure I'll ever live with anyone again. An occasional booty call and someone to go out with once in a while seems like enough.

(Quick synopsis of the last year and a half: started dating a new guy, 3 months in he loses his job due to tariffs and is diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer 2 weeks later. I know he has enough money to live on but not enough to pay rent AND doctors bills so move him into my home, expecting he'll probably be dead in 6 months. 20 months later he's still kicking (although his cancer has spread) and the reality of living with someone who turns out to have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is difficult - not so much for me personally - he's good to me - but he cannot get along with my younger son. I would have asked BF to move out long ago but he's got nowhere else to go. Once this is over - either miraculous cure - unlikely - or eventual death, I don't think I'll ever have a boyfriend live with me again.)

I'm glad you've gotten the satisfaction of an apology and the knowledge that it wasn't really about you.

[Gerda]

This was the trigger... this made her recall that he also molested her when they were kids. So it set off all sorts of trauma that she was not equipped to deal with but had been going to therapy over the past 2 years and dealing with all this along with the miscarriage that we had which she really struggled with.

I have a good friend in my city whose W hit MLC right when my H did. I remember they had the same eyes at the same time. And both of them had a sexual molestation trauma as young teens.

It seems so common on these threads that I am starting to wonder why in tarnation there is no well-funded psych study out there of the impact of child/teen sexual abuse on midlife mental health. I wonder how many of you who are reading this have an MLCer with a sexually-based trauma in his/her past....

Loved reading your post-story story, Cali -- I used to read your stuff in my first go-round here back in the day, before I took a hiatus,then returned,endless cycle. I'm on year seven but my H only gets worse and worse. Irish aside, you seem like a pretty awesome specimen to moi.

I am wondering if you would consider reconciliation. You might have said that already but during quarantine, no activity can go on without a child coming in every second to tell you to replace her unicorn string lights so I have to come and go and come go while doing ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Once done with the string lights, the S14 (also almost 6 feet) will demand his third dinner of the evening and wonder why there is nothing in the fridge and say, aghast that I can't go grocery shopping right now, "It's not like you have anything you have to do."

Granted, DB boards are not something I HAVE to do.

BACK TO WORK, LAZY GERDA!

[Fogg]

Hey Cali! Good to see you again. Just popped in to say hi, I always enjoyed reading your posts in the past and glad to see you still update once in a while. Hope you and son keep doing well, sounds like the GAL with and without him is fantastic!

[job]

Look who popped back in! I am so glad you returned and provided an update. You sound very well grounded and your life is moving along. Your son sounds like he's doing well.

Cali, don't be a stranger. Come back again and visit. Take care of yourself and your son. Stay safe.

[CaliGuy]

hey Cali! HOW is it possible that your son is 13 already!

So interesting about your ex - it's really something how these hidden traumas pop up. Not sure what my ex's was except that he left when our youngest son was the same age that Ex was when his mom left in a MLC. But then he had other problems I've only really been able to see in retrospect.

In my dating post-divorce I've gradually slid towards being more like those Love Avoidant guys I met in the beginning! Not really a Love Avoidant but honestly, I've no interest in actually marrying again and after my experience of the last year and a half, not sure I'll ever live with anyone again. An occasional booty call and someone to go out with once in a while seems like enough.

(Quick synopsis of the last year and a half: started dating a new guy, 3 months in he loses his job due to tariffs and is diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer 2 weeks later. I know he has enough money to live on but not enough to pay rent AND doctors bills so move him into my home, expecting he'll probably be dead in 6 months. 20 months later he's still kicking (although his cancer has spread) and the reality of living with someone who turns out to have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is difficult - not so much for me personally - he's good to me - but he cannot get along with my younger son. I would have asked BF to move out long ago but he's got nowhere else to go. Once this is over - either miraculous cure - unlikely - or eventual death, I don't think I'll ever have a boyfriend live with me again.)

I'm glad you've gotten the satisfaction of an apology and the knowledge that it wasn't really about you.

Right??!!?? ... he is like a man. Funny, just last night he told me how exw still calls him love-bug and that she will say "Daddy is going to pick you up soon" I recall reading about how they struggle a bit with time and she still has some of that left over and often comments to me that he is a man all the sudden. In a way I can relate but I also think she missed alot with him while dealing with her sitch.

Yeah dating post divorce is one thing .... dating post MLC and being in the power curve of either MLC or Transitional out there in the pool is worse. I know I went out on a few dates where the person I met was going through a transition and couldn't as for the check fast enough.

For now I am just focusing on myself and what happens happens.

[CaliGuy]

This was the trigger... this made her recall that he also molested her when they were kids. So it set off all sorts of trauma that she was not equipped to deal with but had been going to therapy over the past 2 years and dealing with all this along with the miscarriage that we had which she really struggled with.

I am wondering if you would consider reconciliation. You might have said that already but during quarantine, no activity can go on without a child coming in every second to tell you to replace her unicorn string lights so I have to come and go and come go while doing ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Once done with the string lights, the S14 (also almost 6 feet) will demand his third dinner of the evening and wonder why there is nothing in the fridge and say, aghast that I can't go grocery shopping right now, "It's not like you have anything you have to do."

Granted, DB boards are not something I HAVE to do.

BACK TO WORK, LAZY GERDA!

I have talked about this a few times over the past 3 months since my last relationship ended with friends who have asked ... "Cali would you take back Exw or ExGf??" As much as I would like to say I have healed and moved on from Exw I have acknowledged that there will always be a part of me who loves her, the one who had not entered into MLC. That said I also know deep down a reconciliation would force me to open up alot of old boxes that I had to seal up and ship off to GoodWill, I just do not feel it would be healthy for me to have to deal with all that stuff again. I am not afraid of entering into a relationship and now know I still have some things/issues to work through but if I had to work through all the old stuff with Exw I know I would lose alot of the work I have done to this point ... in a way I just feel it would be moving to far backward and I just do not want to entertain that kind of work. Her and I are in a good place now, but even before all this happened it was not all that I know I can have in a relationship.

[CaliGuy]

Look who popped back in! I am so glad you returned and provided an update. You sound very well grounded and your life is moving along. Your son sounds like he's doing well.

Cali, don't be a stranger. Come back again and visit. Take care of yourself and your son. Stay safe.

Hey Job .... still here eh??

Yeah I figured with the ecomomy I could make a killing selling SpewJackets. Could not imagine having an MLCr and this virus all at the same time.

Hope you are well !! I will try to pop in and de-rail someones progress as much as I can

[Brubeck]

Hey Cali - good to see you're alive & kicking. That's a lot to process, whoah. However, there are some rare stories about MLCers coming out on to the other side, I guess you ExW has become one of them. Not easy for her to face you and own up.

As much as I would like to say I have healed and moved on from Exw I have acknowledged that there will always be a part of me who loves her, the one who had not entered into MLC.

I've kept a similar feeling - I looked at it that I was thankful and happy to have good memories of my marriage. I've considered that my ExW remembers nothing good - as part of her MLC memory purge - in order to make me the villain of her life. I still care about the woman I knew before she went into the tunnel to die of MLC.

That said I also know deep down a reconciliation would force me to open up alot of old boxes that I had to seal up and ship off to GoodWill, I just do not feel it would be healthy for me to have to deal with all that stuff again. I am not afraid of entering into a relationship and now know I still have some things/issues to work through but if I had to work through all the old stuff with Exw I know I would lose alot of the work I have done to this point ... in a way I just feel it would be moving to far backward and I just do not want to entertain that.

Yikes, this 2x4 stings a lot - but I'm glad to read it, nonetheless. I'm afraid this speaks for me too, but I hadn't articulated this as well as you did. Great goodwill metaphor to encapsulate it all.

[wooba]

thank you so much for coming back and sharing you story! wow, that sure was a long MLC tunnel. I totally understand how you would be hesitant/resistant to think about recon with your exw. Life is short, diving back into all that with past experience is especially daunting. Has your son expressed any opinion on this?

his favorite line is "Dad I still look up to you even if I have to look down" that's about the time I do not care about Child Protective Services and am sure they will side with me for beating him.

aww, as parents we live for those words of validation that we're doing something right. That was very sweet of him to say.

It seems so common on these threads that I am starting to wonder why in tarnation there is no well-funded psych study out there of the impact of child/teen sexual abuse on midlife mental health. I wonder how many of you who are reading this have an MLCer with a sexually-based trauma in his/her past....

add my H to that list...I honestly believe that mental health is the most neglected issue in our society. Most problems are kept in the dark, shared with few, yet the problems that stem from it spreads all over our interpersonal relationships.

[uRworthy]

Callllllllliiiii!

[Babe]

oh !! while I was new here, I read a lot of CaliGuy's words.
People who once posted here are really helping the new students