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HaWho #2744102 05/21/17 04:15 PM
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Hi HW,

Popping by to check in on you. Sounds like you continue to be the balance and rock your boys need. As far as knowing what to do, all I can say is it slowly seems to become clearer. When something doesn't feel right one day, it possibly will the next. Just keep following your gut. As far as the effect on your boys, I see it as a double ended sword as long as your H remains in his fog.

In my case, I am glad we live apart. S is able to spend time with each of us in a tension, anger and drama free home. S sees me relaxed, content and happy. When we have done our family time, there is a definite change of energy in the room, and I find myself relieved when we go our separate ways.

I also think he sees H in a better place. With him having his own space and freedom to do as he wants, I am sure H is happier for it.
In his case, it's best he is free to be crazy and not feeling like he is always under my watchful eye or being judged by me. I think this played a huge part in his moving out.

When this first happened, S cried and had chronic stomach aches. It wasn't easy and I hated H for it, but once things calmed down, I regrouped and focused on making home a safe place again, S adapted quickly. He now moans if he knows his dad is coming by. Home is our safe calm place, a place we both love. We made it this way together, we weathered the storm together and are closer than ever.

I am sharing all this not to sway you, but just to give a different perspective. As you know, I didn't want any of this, but I have grown to believe H did us a huge favor by taking his crazy out of our home!

You continue to inspire me HW, trust your gut and you will do the right thing.

Xxoo
M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
HaWho #2744137 05/22/17 04:02 AM
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IOHawho

It is a tough position with lousy options.

Firstly your own needs are put aside. That is not healthy in the long run. I urge you to look after all your other needs. I struggle at times knowing I deserve better and I am sure if needs be there is another good woman out there somewhere. You do deserve better too. I am sure that one day you will be treated as you deserve. Until then look after yourself.

If foreveryoung dropped by he would quote Michelle about letting your spouse know before you are triple done. I believe this to be true. In our situations where the WAS doesn't leave, and a lot of time passes I think a time eventually comes where the lbs has had enough. You have proven you can support your situation but one day you may chose not to.

Maybe a simple declaration about this is appropriate in your case. But I believe it is best if it is not used as a "tactic". By this I mean not to try change H's mind but emphasise your own. Maybe it could be the prod H needs to make a real shift.

Plus in your case what is the worst that can happen?
# H sulks and hides in his room
# H leaves
You can live with both of those reactions. Maybe he will write to you though!!

Joking aside I don't think such a statement will risk a lot in your situation. But you may feel better having expressed it.

I am glad you can discuss this with S13. He sounds like a good lad.I am sorry things are more sensitivefor your younger son. That must make things harder for you, as it makes separating a worse option.

I am sorry you went through this as a child. I am glad you felt you were loved regardless.

I may not post much on my thread but I share many of your thoughts and struggles.Best wishes my friend


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2744401 05/23/17 07:27 PM
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Hi Mleigh - nice to hear from you. I remember when your s had stomach aches. It's great to hear how well he has adjusted and that you recreated such a beautiful home out of all that wreckage.

Roist - good advice as always. And you summed it up well: tough position w/bad options. But then I think of others, like Mleigh, who have rebuilt out of the rubble.

Truth be told, this was a tough weekend for me. I did what I call stealth crying. Out of nowhere a thought hit me and tears just rolled down my face. It happened several times throughout the weekend. I think it was a new level of grieving brought on by seeing h chum it up w/loser MLC friend.

But I think I may have had my first hot flash too! At one point I felt like I was boiling from the inside out. And all I could think was: dear Lord, please prevent me from making a total fool of myself as I age. Please don't let me wear mini skirts, crop tops, a sideways ponytail and spikey heels to work all in an attempt to be 18 again. It finally passed mid-Monday. And with it came a wonderful return to calm. (Thankfully when it passed I was dressed age appropriately.)

As for MLC updates, there are several. H and I were discussing Something mundane. I asked a question, h got sooo mad and told me what he does with his days is none of my business! There's a classic MLC line. (The top secret topic of conversation: which bank location he prefers!). Later that night, s13 told him h he was using a lot of salad dressing. H snapped: everyone mind your OWN business!! (Guess condiment use is also top secret!)

He's been super cranky. It reminds me of the anger state. Only now, instead of walking on egg shells or trying to appease, I laugh, call him a cranky old goat and walk away. He gets zero of my energy on this front and that feels GREAT!

The other day we were out with the kids and stopped for pizza. We had to eat it in the car as we were in a hurry. I was not hungry. But h handed me a piece and in a very caring fashion, insisted I eat it. It would be a sweet scene if you didn't know that he also locks his bedroom door against me.

Somehow MLC friend's name came up and the kids asked who he was. I said "he is your dad's friend." H said "well, I wouldn't go that far." I let it sit in silence. It felt good to say it as I hate people thinking I am dumb. (Months ago h told me he had "righted my honor" with this guy as MLC friend had hit on me. And weeks ago h practically tripped over himself running over there to talk to MLC guy and he stayed there for 20 minutes gabbing away with this loser.)

H has been all over the map with aging. One minute he is lamenting he is so old. The next he is marveling at his youthfulness. He recently told us that there is a whole lot of stuff he realizes is not worth worrying about as you can't avoid it. For a long while he was very scared of terrorist attacks. And he said he finally realized it was a waste of time. I said: "yeah, there is SO much not worth worrying about--aging is the biggest one of all." He was silent. Due to his complete lack of self awareness, he probably thinks I am the one all worried about growing old and I've only now just realized it's useless to fret over it!

Here's a weird one. This weekend he asked us a to watch a movie in the living room. (I think he senses me drifting off.). H categorically asked me if I wanted to watch as well. I said yes, but my energy was low. (H had earlier just finished telling us was a marvel he was for his age and I just wanted to escape to upstairs where the mature people live: me and my teenagers! LOL!!) I said I would watch but needed to finish something quickly. Sons also went upstairs while I finished and get this! In a total huff h turned off the tv and ALL the lights! We asked him if he still wanted to watch and in a really whiny way he said everyone was low energy about it. (I thought of Mleigh who used to say her h acted like he could rent a family. That is how it feels.). Maybe this was an injured kid???

But then today he texted me saying he realized I do x every day and he can do that as it makes more sense. It's something out of my way that I've been doing since my new job. I guess after 5 months he finally woke up to it? I thanked him. It is a time saver for me.

He notices things about me now. He'll infrequently comment. Why are you eating so little tonight? How come you are cold when it is hot out?

I do think about saying something to him. It's not to affect change. It's so that if he ever wakes up he does remember I tried. I remember those moments from my depression. I don't know what angle to take. A) I am worried about you. You are in your room a lot and have been for 3 years. You listen to the same few songs. B) I don't think this can go in like this forever. It is not healthy for any of us to see this. C) a combo of A and B.

In the thick of my depression he tried talking to me. I thought he was nuts due to my skewed perception. But when I woke up I remembered him trying and I knew he was right about everything.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2744409 05/23/17 08:54 PM
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Hi Hawho,

Thanks for stopping by last week and sorry you had a tough weekend. I wish I had some great advice but I can only say you're doing a great job and to keep it up:) I know that feeling about the loser mlc friend. I feel like W could take a step forward w/o hers always pulling her back. How do they find these "friends." I can literally see/feel the change in her after they are together. I can't help but see the similarities w/your H and my W. w/o going into detail it's so eerie and sad. That hurt kid is right below the surface.

Again, I wish I had some good advice but just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and your sons. Take care of yourself and keep up the good work!!

Kyh #2744422 05/24/17 02:15 AM
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I don't know what to say. I'm sorry about the stealth tears. I still have those moments - had em yesterday, actually. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

Ha, your husband is noticing more than he used to. Last year at this time would he have volunteered to do something for you? Would he have noticed? I can't imagine what you're going through, but look at how strong this has made you! Regardless of what happens long term, you will get through it as you've developed the inner strength through this madness.

I still think you're suffering live-in MLCer burnout. Any chance you can get away for a weekend alone to regroup?

xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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"Please don't let me wear mini skirts, crop tops, a sideways ponytail and spikey heels to work all in an attempt to be 18 again."

Oh my gosh - you don't think that works in your 40s?? Maybe I need to review my look!!

Sorry you had a rough weekend. It does sound as though you may be reaching your limit of limbering along in a kind of limbo. What you do about that is of course up to you and I wish you well whatever you decide.

My only comment would be - if you ask your H how things might improve, my guess is he may have projected a lot onto you - ie: my life would be so much better if she wouldn't do X, or if only they weren't so Y....

But if you choose to do that, I would say do it with compassion and be prepared to hear something you may find difficult (ie: projection etc.) But if it will help you feel better and moving forward knowing you have done it, then I don't see why not?

Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2744439 05/24/17 06:36 AM
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HaWho...you amaze me with your patience and ability to try to understand your H. I get those stealth tears, too and I'm not even living with XH. You're so good at seeing the humor in the situation, or at least dealing with it in good humor. I agree that you do sound as if you are reaching a point where a break from him might be welcomed.

I wonder if somehow taking a break might shake him up a bit? He seems to be making slow progress in his situation, but maybe it is time to express your concerns about his behavior directly and lovingly. We're all not in the house with you, so in no way can we feel see, or hear what it is like to be there other than through your posts. But in reading your posts I feel the weight of your situation becoming heavy like hot muggy air...liveable, but energy draining. I felt that way before BD in my own sitch, but saw enough loving acts and did my own thing enough to just swim through. If you asked if I was happy, I would say yes; but looking back now, I was just looking forward to when things would be better; when he retired, when his business got stable, when summer came, when we moved, when we vacationed, when the kids were grown, when he pulled his head out of his a%$...when some future thing would fix it all. Surprisingly, he was feeling the same (I believe). He voiced it during our early R talks (ok, more like emotional cry and beg and defend sessions) by saying, "I looked at the next 20 years and asked if this is how I wanted it to be, and my answer was 'no'." Of course it was.

The problem there was that neither of us had the space to really gain any clear insight on our situation; even with him trying to create space by moving downstairs (sleeping and "hanging out in our guest room, parking himself in the tv room downstairs) he couldn't escape me. I was there. I was doing the shopping (he tried to a bit) and cooking...he had to eat what I wanted. I did everything, in fact. Everything around was what I wanted or how I wanted it. Except at work. Well, except I chose the paint colors and I painted the pictures. See? He really couldn't even escape me there. I see it in your sitch. The food rebellion, the Christmas tree. From our POV, it looks insane. From theirs it may just be a desperate attempt to take some control over their life. To not feel like they are once again, a child being controlled by a parent who feels they know what's best.

I have new understanding and insight into him angrily saying, "I don't NEED you!". I asked XH when he called to tell me he had filed why, after he moved out he had said some things that led me to believe he was still considering R. He told me he wasn't sure he could live by himself. It has taken real space, what most of our "MLCers" are begging for, to see how much love can go from googly-eyed togetherness to two people grasping to control each other's lives unknowingly in the guise of caring for each other. No wonder we see it as regressing to deal with childhood issues (ie; controlling or neglectful mom's)...they sometime's feel like children again, instead of manly adult males.

Just a few thoughts, HaWho. In case you didn't notice, I was writing to support you and had yet another realization about my own sitch right in the freaking middle of it all. But it certainly may apply to yours, as well. Ahhhh....stealth tears and epiphanies. The stuff that MLC is made of. Hmmmm....

Any who, truly giving space...it can do wonders for inner peace and insights...apparently. We're all just muddling through this. Take it easy, HaWho. How ever you see fit.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

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Ciluzen, thank you for your thoughts. I don't want to hijack but they helped me to maybe see things better from my W's POV. Thank you.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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How are you doing since?

I will think on your question about how to phrase it if you decide to talk to H.

In some cases I think a discussion can be useful. I think about saying something to W because I feel that eventually I will reach the crest and once I have gone past it I will freewheel fast down the other side. I feel I owe it to W ...... no I don't owe it but I feel it is right for me to forewarn this eventuality.

I like the idea of checking if he sees a better way of living together. As already mentioned he may list off all your faults as he sees them. Or he could actually pinpoint something you could change. Of course such a conversation should ideally go both ways, so maybe reread the section in DR about asking for what you want.

You know you could just hit him with a quick but big truth bomb. State you can see he is not happy and you hope he can work through that BUTyou are not sure how much longer you will continue living like this. Don't elaborate unless pushed. Leave it at that and give him space.

If you want to add impact to it, leave for the weekend. Something different could help him hear you.

Just bare in mind if he is too stuck he may not be able to react yet.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2745210 05/31/17 04:48 AM
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HaWho,

When you decide to speak to him, keep it in the present and about him. You want him to think about himself and how he's living. I found from experience and w/talking to others that they tend to be more open to listen if you keep the conversation about them. Why? Because they are just selfish individuals right now. You could say something like "h, you appear not to be happy w/your life and your living arrangements. Have you given any thought as to where you'll be in the next 6 months or even a year from now? Do you still want to live like you are at this moment or do you want something better?"

If you point out how you are living, etc., he'll be put on the defensive and get all flustered and bomb you w/insults and bring up things from the past that have hurt you.

Give him something to think about. I think you may be surprised by his answers once he's had time to digest them.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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