25yearsMLC - 10 years later I FILE D

[Sotto]

I'm sorry and glad to read your story 25. Like others I read your posts and your advice has helped me through some difficult times. Knowing you online has been a gift.

It is sad to read of a reconciliation that didn't sustain in the longer term but I am glad for how good you sound. Many aspects of your story resonated with me. I was also the wife of a commuting, successful man. Not easy.

You have many blessings in your life and you count them. Whilst you will of course mourn the end of your marriage, there are also upsides & you are enjoying those too. Like you, I struggle with the great rift. XH and I have no contact, and whilst contact wouldn't really work for me given all circumstances, I don't like that there is a chasm there, where there was once a R. I don't know the answer to that.

From the bottom of my heart I wish you well and I hope you'll keep posting to share your journey.

Xxx

[25yearsmlc]

When I say I miss him, other than day to day things I know we both enjoyed b/c in many many ways we were well suited...what I really am mourning is 1 of 2 things.

1) The past

It's as if I want a time machine to go back to what we once had, b/c it was damn good. And for years I held onto what we once had b/c I believed we could get there again...so I missed the past marriage. Some folks don't really have that, but they miss something else.

AND OR

2) the hoped for future - I missed what I felt we were going to have, what I hoped we'd have. Traveling in our retirement years (which we could be doing now, btw) sharing hobbies, building a lovely home...visiting our children...

Good lord....that ^^^ makes War and Peace look like a Reader's Digest story....

Whew...

: )

Mach, I had so many variations of my Tome, that I finally felt like in the interest of disclosure to just put it out. THANKS for trying to read it and for finding something above that was recently learned by me

Yes - the whole time machine piece of this. If only.....


Ya know what ??

I would be a lot more worried about you if you didn't feel that way..

I think the key is, that you should miss those things. And I think that it's pretty normal to see them in that way.


See them for what they were, and still are without distorting an entire relationship together. Try not to demonize him to justify the decisions that you are making now. And I don't think that you are. It just becomes too terribly easy to use that anger as a diving platform to get from the kiddie pool to the big girl pool, ya know ?


You are not kidding. I've always known in my HEAD that anger wasn't useful (and btw, it never ever worked in my marriage anyhow). At least not the past several years.

So it is not going to help ME now, so that's all that matters.

Oh and because the anger that sometimes creeps in, can overtake and consume. Just makes you sick.

If it is "justice" that we want, we must accept that first, NO, life is not fair.

(In the grand scheme of things if we are reading this while knowing half the world uses dung for heat, we are already proving life isn't fair.

Not to mention the friends or family we all know who died young, or who face challenges far beyond our heartbreak, as bad as this feels...)


But let's say my h never faces the trail of destruction his choices created, let's say he successfully hides from them, and at least seems super happy in his new life with his new friends - and let's say that lasts for decades - till he leaves the planet Let's say there is not even a deathbed regret uttered...okay, seems like he "Got away" with something, which might be true.

So, what are MY options?

for ME to be happy for decades till I leave the planet. That's without the whole "attract them back" piece, which is not on my radar, frankly.

If you want to "lessen the score" you have to realize the only "points" we can make are our own.

We cannot decrease their points or lessen their happiness, unless you want to go all "Fatal Attraction" on them and then we lessen our own score and our children's, too.


So we minimize our losses - by maxing out on our gains. We do what makes us happier or more at peace or brings us joy and balance. Especially if there were things we were not able to do while married to our spouses. Mine was a health nut who scoffed at all gluten, but my dad became a chef the second half of his life and I reaking LIKE to cook & eat French & Italian food. Anyhow, that's a small example.

So We live well. However that looks and whatever it takes, that is what WE do

I can & do "know" in my heart , that my h lost a devoted loyal loving woman (who, I might add, is damn hilarious). I lost a man I once loved and admired deeply. But it's quite possible that man went away long ago and I just didn't know, or he became part time, or whatever. He's gone now.

I can KNOW that he missed out on so much of our children's lives...so very much he will never know...the nights of tucking them in & hearing about their fears and dreams, the drives to school and events, daily, both ways and that's when you learn about your child's LIFE and that is how they know about YOURS and my God I would not give that up for anything...

it does not matter IF h ever really realizes what he lost...(the truth itself might not matter to him, OR the truth might destroy him. I truly am not sure).

But I do know what I gained.


I was telling someone the other day, that even after almost 10 years, I still try to honor my wedding vows.

I still love the girl that I married and walked down the aisle to me. There will always be a special place for her, regardless what has transpired between us.

I hope and think I will get there^^. At the moment a lot of things that once brought me joy, now bring me pain right.

I was in the grocery store and our wedding song came on. It paralyzed me. Church and our private personal prayers, made me weep.



I still choose to honor her, by not talking schidt about her,


Interesting viewpoint and I want to have it.

I have a question/remark. I have always told my kids their dad loves them, (even in the face of long absences and weird behavior.) I mean, for years. And in his goony way, I really believe he does love them.

But after his OW and SO HAPPY FB posts, they told me clearly, "Do not tell us Dad loves us. Do not defend dad anymore..."

That was clear... I have to respect their wishes, but man, that was unexpected.

I think they want me to just move on and that defending him, or saying he loves them, sounds as if I am not. But I am.

and being okay with her choices, and generally living a good life for myself

I still cherish the memories that we made together, and the children that I am a Father to that are one half of her...to dis-respect her, is to disrespect half of them too.

Yes^^^.


I get asked a lot about forgiveness...

I'm not sure that ^^^ is it, but somehow, I feel that it's pretty close..

Maybe it's a combination of acceptance and forgiveness...

Either way...

I did it before, I can do it again, I think. Money issues bother me (its a fear b/c I gave up a lot for his career)

but in the long run after the ordeal is done, I think I'll be okay and then, I THINK (but am not positive) that tensions between us will lessen.

God I hope so.


So where do you wanna be 25 ???

Well, I made a list of things I mourned the loss of, by having the marriage end.

Which included living and traveling overseas, rehabbing a house, maintaining a certain standard of living, a bucket list of sorts, and such, ETC

Then I looked at the list and started thinking of ways for me to do at least some of this^^ list, without h.

And happily, I find that there ARE several things I wanted and hoped to do with h, that I can do without him.

Is that what you mean?

[25yearsmlc]

(((25)))

I have been waiting for this post, but also dreading it, because I had a gut feeling this was coming. And you know what I have learned from this DB life? That my gut knows best. Sigh.

My heart raced as I read this because 1. It aches for you and what you have endured (you are an incredible woman who deserves all the good in life), and 2. I see so much of my story in yours. There are many details I have not included, but we have a lot in common and we think very much alike! ... So admittedly I think I have lost some faith in my M, I am sad to say, but I have.

I started reading here about 3 years ago and I remember your posts--your strength, your intellect, how you worded things, and the advice in itself was golden--and more than what you shared, but that you gave me hope. So I want to thank you for that and for getting me through so many hard, and terribly painful, days.

And you still give me hope. As you so eloquently outline here: DB is for us before saving our M. I believe that wholeheartedly. Even though I am still very much in the piecing stages, I think it's something we all need to understand and accept. It's taken me years to get here.

Thank you, 25, for everything. I am so sorry for how things turned out and for the loss of a dream. I just know that there is something "better" for you. I know you will find it and thrive, and maybe much more so than if he had stayed.

Blu

Blu, this means more to me than you can know.
((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

Sotto,

Blu, Mach, Thornton and all who post (I'm missing others but for now, will continue)

it means a lot to come to this place.

Am I all fine and happy? No. Of course not. But I'm dealing. I'm coping. I am not huddling.

There are days I want to and days I think that it's good I have a dog or I would not have wanted to go out.

My car arrives next week (could not drive for 6 months, which is up next week).

So my GAL and new therapist and reaching out to old friends who say they are there for me and most will be,

will have to really increase.

The good news?? I don't have a large capacity for misery, that I can sustain. I cannot be depressed for long.

But this is not depression so much as grief. I will grieve and I will deal. I won't become paralyzed by staring at it but I won't run away from it b/c then it pushes you in a direction or relationship you are not choosing freely.

I'll process it. I will get through it.

The past 18 months I have lost my mom, our last child went to college, (had the whole homicide weirdness tossed in) we sold our home and moved to a place I have since left, again, and the marriage ended.

Oh, and out of nowhere I had a few grand mal seizures (you know, the sexy kind).

I'm doing my best and for the most part the authentic feedback I get is that I'm doing really well. My health became THE focus, so in some ways I put the marriage crisis on the back burner.

one big goal i have is to feel more purpose in my life, and that has to do with a lot of loss or roles (not a daughter, not a wife, less of a mom, etc) not employed yet,

and that will come.

But I have identified it as a nagging sense of self doubt, plus the seizure thing hurt my memory and I hate stuff that makes me feel less brilliant

or, God forbid, forget a punch line.

So I'm working on it.

I deeply appreciate your feedback. Seriously.

[Coly23]

25, I'm so sorry to hear what has happened. I too read your sitch when I first came to the board and like Blu I waited for your update, dreading the worse but hoping fot the best.

You remain an inspiration to me as even having to go through this for a second time you still have the strength to provide us newbies with hope.

I think sometimes people just don't see what is in front of them and instead chase dreams to make themselves happy. I am not surprised that your family have lost respect for your H, especially with the way he treated you when you were unwell and with flaunting the OW.

You sound like DB'ing the first time around has made you a much stronger person this time and I believe that's a place we all want to get to even if we don't save our marriages.

(((25))), keep posting. I appreciate are all your nuggets of wisdom...

[Vanilla]

25

I guessed and wondered when the flood gates were going to open.

And it's ok and going Alaskan is travelling to a place inside WH head. I don't go to MLC land because I don't believe MLC exists. That's my view and actually it doesn't matter much whether MLC does or not. The DSM does not include MLC as a disorder and those folk are wiser than me.

This very last period of your M sounds like a phase of abuse to me, classic lies, mirrors and gaslighting. And OW, always OW exist somewhere in entitled land called Alaska.

I always felt your sitch like that of Rosalindas was crazy loco WH territory (I read your threads when I was new here), much like my own with a disappearing WH whose head (and other apendages) are in foreign parts. There are a few of them, Russian, Italian, Alaska, Texan and just plain loco land. There is no way through these strange territories other than straight. No stopping.

The abuse messes with one's head and emotions. Eventually the abuser's mask slips and the truth can no longer be avoided.

Sometimes, in the midst on concentrating on our M on our DB, we forget that we are enough, truly we are enough. Good enough and just ordinary enough to be enough.

Unless the abuser is diagnoised as disordered then in reality the type of disorder matters little. If a disorder is systemic or becomes systemic then abuse in is in the abuser all along. It was there throughout and only masked. There is no way to know until we do. Once you know then you can never unknow.

Abusers decompensate with age, the personality disintegrates with age as the veneer of normality wears thin and the aged abuser become emptier.

The wise (as such you are) grow more complex, more stable and much more grounded. The wise age well and become more authentic whereas the decompensated less so, more masked; the abusers ego is involved and shows through transparent and the veneer wears thin. The decompensated personality seeks it's haven and desire externally whereas the answer is found intrinsic not extrinsic.

An avoidant spouse in D is showing true high conflict colours. Being Alaskan is the ultimate not in avoidance but in the art of ignorance and punishment. Cold empathy and the silent treatment is the highest level of covert abuse. Silent treatment is not NC as NC involves dealing with matters and having the sense of finality and self protection. Alaska is not a dream or destination for success, to me it is a symbol of the rabbit hole that Alice went to wonderland. The folks in Alaska can of course be happy and no doubt Alaska is beautiful, wild and free. This isn't knocking Alaska as a destination, nor Russia nor Italy or Texan or the rabbit hole. It is the thought that this other place is one of perfection where all is right with the world. Addiction and delusion travels in the backpack of the decompensating abuser.

We take our troubles with us wherever we go. We can go to the most beautiful spot in the world and we can still take our disorder and abusave nature with us.

I believe in the human spirit and mind. I believe in its durability, it's desire to grow and shift. And even in Alaska the true loving spirit can live with love.

There is something I know more than this, that the higher spirit soars after adversity, that there is post traumatic growth that it's real and true.

You stood on a thin ledge in high wind holding the kite of love. What is done in love is never done badly or without purpose. You endured and loved.

Eventually as I let go then I said I love and loved the Giggalo, I wish him well, I want him happy and in Italy. I love me more and I want me well and in my home. I will not be abused. I read this in your words too.

Much as I know as intuitively as I can that Karma is already in the heart of a wayward, wanting Alaska and escape down a rabbit hole will not end well. I am astonished how waywardness and abusiveness ages the decompensated personality. It makes them old before their time, the eyes die.

I also know that love and self respect, growth and wisdom of age is astonishing wondrous and glorious. Post traumatic growth pushes us to strength determination and joy. Such it will be for you.

I have no sympathy for those who torment others with lies and deceit. I think they know what they do and have little conscience about it. It never ends well for them.

In every case I believe the LBS has it best, eventually the LBS says done. And the door closes, the bridge burns and the path home is barred. The wayward knows and that's when the mask slips and the depths of abuse begin. The silence is the anger of the wayward abuser. The rot on FB is designed to punish you, to triangulate and to begin the downward control over an OW. It's not real.

The Giggalo pulled the same trick with RIT (now BIT) Russian (Bratislavan) Italian Tramp, pictures, lovey dovey stuff, and ohhhs from golfing acquaintances and family. Glad you are now happy, Italy is doing wonders for you etc etc. I had to find him to serve so I followed the lead. I have the address to serve and now I don't bother at all. BIT haunts my pages and has friend requested me a few times. A dark haired Italian looking lass who the Giggalo is trying to turn into pale as moonlight!

It's all fake, as much as this OW is fake and the life is down the rabbit hole. Illusion, a mask, a nothing but scrambled eggs for brains. Makes sense to them. I questioned was it a tapeworm or tumour in the brain, too much alcohol etc....

Actually now it would be interesting to know if it is organic disease of one kind or another, perhaps curable with snow, fermented oatmeal or Apple Juice. For me just idle curiosity.

The last time I saw the Giggalo he was aged and dead behind the eyes. That was the problem his eyes were like sharks eyes devoid of feeling. I am frightened of the cold empathy and I want him gone elsewhere. If he is happy or distracted then his mind and cold eyes are not on me. I fear being a target for the rest of my life or his. The shivers run up and down my spine when I think of the damage done. Alaska is further away than Italy, a better choice.

I am both saddened for you and Relieved that you did not go down the rabbit hole to Alaska.

I wish you joy and healing. I want post traumatic growth for you. I want sunshine and beauty and freedom with all the rainbows your higher spirit can give you.

Above all peace, wisdom and health in the next phase of your life. The love you have you keep and hold for your soul. Love is beauty and a future happiness.

V

[OwnIt]

25--

As everyone here I am so sorry for this place in which you find yourself. Now I know why you seemed to really get my situation so well, you have lived the same life as me but a decade ahead. You clearly deserve better than this, but it sounds like you have to forge your own path to the better. I hear anger and I hear resolute. I see the confidence and the power.

I came to this place hoping for reconciliation, a return, a do over, something. I am beginning to see that the reconciliation is with myself, the return is to me, the do over is going to be with someone else. That is ok. It's ok for you and it's ok for me. While you were writing your post I was on the phone with a divorce lawyer, finally ready to take my path away from his disorder and his malignancy.

Mine didn't go Alaskan (about as far north as you can go without doing so), but he is the same man and the path leads the same place. I wish for you that you find the person who will be there for you in the tough times and tells you now and again how beautiful and strong you are.

[leahsue]

25,
I have just read your posts. I have not known you long enough (as some of these wise vets have) to have predicted this, so I was really shocked to read your updated story. Since I came here, you are one of the ones I have looked to for advice, and my feelings about that will never change. I think you are so wise, strong, brave, and a great friend to this forum and all of us here. I believe your future will hold treasures unimaginable, and I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying, please continue to inspire us, but more importantly, come here for your own healing as well. We all have your back.

[25yearsmlc]

I do hope my situation does not get projected onto others.

there are parallels but I know some marriages do get saved and or, fixed. And if a m lasts decently for 20 more years, was DBing a "failure"?? I think not.

I think DBing is about the best program out there. I think without it, my m would have ended in 2007, and though you could argue I should have left then, remember, I'm not doing a "should have" mantra anymore. Besides, I would not be the person I am now. And I like who I am now, better.

Sometimes people would read my situation and see hope in theirs that maybe wasn't there, and I don't want people to see failure in theirs, that might not be.

This^^ is not aimed at anyone in particular, btw.

Vanilla, I'll read your posts several times, I'm sure.

Thank you.

[25yearsmlc]

25,
I have just read your posts. I have not known you long enough (as some of these wise vets have) to have predicted this, so I was really shocked to read your updated story. Since I came here, you are one of the ones I have looked to for advice, and my feelings about that will never change. I think you are so wise, strong, brave, and a great friend to this forum and all of us here. I believe your future will hold treasures unimaginable, and I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying, please continue to inspire us, but more importantly, come here for your own healing as well. We all have your back.

((( )))