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A Message from Michele
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Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720341
12/10/16 03:10 PM
12/10/16 03:10 PM
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Vanilla Offline
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Another thought get her to watch episodes of catfish on the TV.

Likely the OM is a dwarf with bad breath who is grooming her for white slavery.

Sandi own story is in point here.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Woke_Up] #2720351
12/10/16 04:08 PM
12/10/16 04:08 PM
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Quote:
It appears I have no way of enforcing my boundary - which is that she does not communicate with the EAP while in the house, especially while I or the kids are there.


Remember, the purpose of your boundaries are to protect yourself emotionally/mentally/physically. For example, I am sure you feel terribly disrespected when your W contacts EAP, especially when you and the kids are home. You could say, "When you communicate with your EAP, it causes me to feel disrespected. I will not be disrespected in my own house". You might not want to limit it to just the house, and say, "I will not be disrespected". You have told her how it makes you feel. Your boundary is about not being disrespected. That should be the focus or point. Instead of shining the spotlight on her communicating with the OM, you are shining the light on disrespect. Then you declare that you will not be disrespected in your own home. You are not telling her what to do. Get it? She has a choice, and you are not telling her what to choose. You are simply stating that you won't tolerate disrespect. You are not threathening her, or giving an ultimatum. You have an obligation to yourself to protect that boundary. The next time you see her communicating with the OM, how can you protect your feelings of being disrespected?

Forget about what to do to her, for just a little while, okay? Yes, I stand by what I said about an effective boundary having stiff consequences if dishonored, but I think you are still being distracted by the consequences vs punishment. You are talking like you are defeated before even trying. So, for the time being, set aside what you could do to her. Just think about yourself. What could you do to defend yourself when experiencing disrespect? Have you ever had to stand up for yourself, face a bully, deal with disrespect in some other form from someone else? What did you do?

Considering your W's bold defiance and telling you she has no intentions of ending her contacts with the OM.......would I be wrong to think she has shown disrespect in other ways in the M? You may have thought it wasn't worth dealing with at that moment, or she'd accuse you of making too much out of it.....or you'd shrugg it off. You felt that keeping the peace was more important than having a fight about her tone of voice, eye rolling, heavy sighs, foot tapping, sarcasm, cursing, being rude in front of others, making you look like a dummy in front of your children.........the list is endless. It may have started out in a more less offensive behavior and over time it grew. Maybe it is so bad that her contemp shows in how she speaks to you, or the expression on her face, her body language, etc. Unfortunate, the nice guy H usually won't call out this type of bad behavior in his W, and her disrespect grows and she begins showing more and more rebellioun toward him and the MR.

Anyway, try to think about your feelings and how you can protect them. Don't give up and don't think of yourself as a victim. You have been wrongly treated, but you don't have to act like a helpless victim. You have choices, and you need to decide what is more important to you. And, you need to respect yourself.

Btw, don't offer to tell your WW other ways she can contact OM! Don't make deals about her continuing an EA. Don't accept the responsibility for her EA.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: sandi2] #2720431
12/11/16 10:18 AM
12/11/16 10:18 AM
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Vanilla Offline
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Great post Sandi

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720453
12/11/16 01:11 PM
12/11/16 01:11 PM
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OK woke up

Sit next to V and let's work boundaries in a practical way.

Boundaries

You set a boundary on your actions, your tolerances and your behaviour. The things over which you have control.

You have no control over your WW and what she does. You have control over your reactions to what she does.

Oh and BTW you have no control over your feelings (another time).

--------------------------------

So can I give you an example from my own sitch?

WH, I beleve I am being abused, if you swear at me over the mobile, I will go silent on you.

WH then swears at me again two days later

WH, I asked you not to swear at me over the phone, I said I would go silent. I am now blocking your calls for 4 hrs. If it happens again I will block you for 24 hrs.

WH then abuses on the phone, a week later

WH I am being abused again my phone is blocked to you for 24 hrs, if it happens again I will no longer take calls from you.

So I ceased to take calls.

I set my boundary and I applied it.

---------------------------

The boundary is that which I tolerate and the enforcement is something under my control. I will not be abused.

Next WH if you swear at me directly, I will walk away

Etc etc etc........

Never state a boundary without a consequence and only state a consequence you can enforce and will enforce.

Recommendation no ultimatum, peeps no matter how valid your point will always over react to an ultimatum.

Example: WH and V on 2 May 2015, text

V: WH I know you are at the Casino with OW and our joint account bank card, there is a withdrawal
WH: how dare you check up on my whereabouts it is none of your business who I am with and where I go
V: WH I disagree completely although I understand why you might feel that way
WH: I do not want any criticism of what I am doing, you always criticise me, you are horrible etc
V: I am blocking you as you now as I consider this is abuse

An hr later WH arrives home

WH: I hate you and I can go wherever I like and spend as I choose
V: I have blocked our joint bank account and suspended both cards as I have advised I will not fund gambling and OW
WH: Unless you unblock now I am leaving for ever
V: OK
WH: where are the storage boxes, I am taking my stuff now and going
V: I have no idea where the storage boxes are, if you go now there is no returning for one month

And he left, to return the following day and the alarm code was changed


---------------------------

If your time sheet and invoice are not on the server for processing by the 10th of the month, then you will have to wait until the next month to be paid.

That one worked too.

--------------------------

If you pay within 20 days you will get a discount of 5%

If you pay after 30 days you will have a penalty of 5%

That one works often too.

--------------------------

So with WW, your boundary is you feel disrespected if she contacts OM in your home.

Consequence you pay your own bills

Consequence I block x

Consequence you move out

Your boundary and your consequence.

------------------------

So with WW whilst you have an OM I stay in the MBR and MH. What you do is up to you.

What she does is her choice she can stay in the MBR with you or move to the sofa, spare room, bath or closet

If it continues we need separate space and I stay in the MBR, this you can't enforce ok

I cease to pay your bills or or or or

No ML if you are PA with OM you can enforce

Your boundary, your consequence to enforce something under your control

Etc

----------------------------

Hope this helps explain my view of it, I spotted your confusion on it.

Others will no doubt chip in.

I recommend Al Turtle on boundaries he writes for teenagers on the subject and it was the only thing I could get to understand it for myself. It's full of forts, villagers, walls and invading armies. And the penny dropped for me.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720457
12/11/16 01:38 PM
12/11/16 01:38 PM
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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720458
12/11/16 01:42 PM
12/11/16 01:42 PM
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Real link

Sorry folks

real link


V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720462
12/11/16 01:51 PM
12/11/16 01:51 PM
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Oh and the house was purchased by me before we M and is in my sole name.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720469
12/11/16 02:44 PM
12/11/16 02:44 PM
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Now boundaries have follow up too, boundaries are not punishments. So we are reasonable and rational.

So in the example I gave on WH swearing at me on the phone and not stopping.

I followed it up at an agreed time with

When you swore at me on the phone I was very upset and had to cut your calls. I would like that we communicate well and without swearing. Can we agree to that please?

Can you tell me what was upsetting you?

WH responded he could say what he wanted it was a free country.
---------------------

We discussed last week that I am upset when I am sworn at on the phone and this has happened again. You agreed that you would not swear at me.

What can we do about this?

WH nothing I say makes any difference to you, you make me swear at you

V I don't agree but you are entitled to your view

Etc etc etc

-------------------------------

October 2014

Can we discuss please you drawing cash for your personal use from our joint account. That account is for Bills and it makes planning difficult for me. We have one card in my name for the account and if you cease to use the card for personal items then neither will I.

Please pay for your gambling and entertaining from your own account and I will pay for any of mine likewise.

I suggest that in an emergency we can check with each other the use and refund the sums.

What are your thoughts?

WH: V you are boring, I pay the money into the account for Bills, it's mine to take out if I choose to and I can spend it any way I want to

V: I don't agree at all, the money is to cover bills and I make up the difference if there is a deficit

WH: well I can't afford to pay my half into the account, so I am no longer going to pay to the joint account it's your fault V you are so crap with money and a s..t payer, you are taking the p..s with me. It's your house that I am paying for. You should sell it and give me money, I hate this house

V: WH we have no mortgages so it is just bills from that account. Well ok in which case since you are no longer going to be paying the bills please do not draw cash from the account

Then on 2 May 1016 he took the card to the casino

------------------------------

And follow up at agreed time:

Your timesheets and invoice were not on the server for me to make your payment and invoice the clients.

Can you explain to me why this is?

On this occasion I will pay you on time, can we agree that if there is an issue in future you will advise me so we can agree an ACTION? Please understand I am making an exception this time that I may chose not to make next time?

------------------------

You usually pay your invoices on time and on this occasion it was late. Is there a PROBLEM?

We do apply a penalty on late payment automatically. Can you let me know if there is a problem please in future so we can agree a strategy?

----------------------

So

WW on Tuesday you Skype OM and I could hear you. I have said that I will no longer pay for the WiFi for you to Skype and also be upset in my home. That isn't what I want particularly as it increases cost, can we agree you will cease to Skype so I can hear you?

WW I intend to stay in the MBR as this is my home, I would prefer you to be with me in the MBR and what you do is your choice and you can sleep in the MBR with me. Can we discuss what you would like to do? On Wed?


----------------------------

This is how I worked it. It was the best I could do. I forgive myself.

Sadly WH took my card and withdrew cash at the casino (I have a text alert on the cards usage), he also paid for OW flight on it. So when he issued his ultimatum I called it.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720473
12/11/16 03:02 PM
12/11/16 03:02 PM
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Woke_Up Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Another thought get her to watch episodes of catfish on the TV.

Likely the OM is a dwarf with bad breath who is grooming her for white slavery.

Sandi own story is in point here.

V


Honestly, I think you're right. I have seen the pictures she downloaded on her phone, and it ain't pretty...


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Re: Help - boundaries. Am I doing th ewrong thing? [Re: Vanilla] #2720474
12/11/16 03:04 PM
12/11/16 03:04 PM
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Posts: 291
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Woke_Up Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla

Thank you so much, appreciate it.

It's been an odd day today, with ups and downs. I need to work on the detahcment, although mentally I think I am improving, and also the distancer/pursuer element, at which I am not so hot.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
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