Wow Wonka. I've listened to some Marshall Rosenburg. Interesting concept in nonviolent communication. And you are right I had no idea who he was. He focuses on identifying human needs and identifying what needs are not being met. I'm still listening to more of his talks right now. I have been playing the game of who is right for a very long time. I have a lot to learn. Thank you for pointing him out.
In this situation about school... As a parent I have a need to provide the best I can, and I do understand that this school is better. I think my needs are to understand the stability of the arrangement, and how the day to day process would work.
I believe her need is to provide the best education she can for her kids. I do believe their is a host of selfish reasons behind this (this is a judgement), but I try not to focus on but I do.
NEW RESPONSE... We obviously have a disagreement here. We have an equal say in the choice of schools as we have joint custody. If you want to take this to a legal route - you are free to pursue that along with the time and expense - However I am willing to continue to try and work this out with you in the best interests of the children. We won't be able to I'd like to have a goal of collaborating together in a nonviolent way as an alternative to litigating every disagreements. I believe this would have a positive impact on our children.
The school is better. Here is what I suggest. I'm concerned about what the plan is when you are not able to pick up the kids, since I will be farther away and unable to to assist as often. If we proceed with this new school, I will want a formal plan in place about what will happen regarding drop offs and pick ups when they are with you and you have a scheduling conflict. I believe this may be an appropriate time to review the parenting plan schedule we have been operating outside the schedule for a long time with regards to Fridays. I am willing to collaborate on a new plan for pick up and drop offs to implement into the parenting plan.
Also as their father, I would like to know who will be living with my children. I'm sure you will appreciate the same consideration when my living circumstances change.
----End of response... Thoughts?
I see now how I have attempted to control more pieces than I understood. I believe I have many feelings that I attribute to her which is incorrect. I know I am responsible for my own feelings.
I believe I have the following feelings, that I need to understand what needs are not being met. - I have anger that she does not follow the parenting plan on every other Friday. - I have anger/I am hurt because there has been no conversation about the OM, which I think is incorrect. - I have a concern that her life will not change as the number of activities the children are involved in changes.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
I like the revision that you've made based on Wonka's suggestion. I have one small recommendation - delete "in a nonviolent way". Have the sentence simply read "I'd like to have a goal of collaborating together as an alternative to litigating disagreements."
You have made some improvements to your draft response. It is clear to us that you now realize that the initial response was not ideal and do see that improvements could be made in certain areas. A couple of comments to think about your approach.
You know about the sandwich approach, right? Open up with positive then negative in the middle and end on a positive note. What you would want to think about here is how you can approach this as a collaborative parenting process. Meaning, you can open up the first sentence or so (paragraph) by agreeing to whatever points that XW made (that is confirming a point or some points of mutual agreement)...this shows that you are not obstinate at all.
There are some parts that you would want to keep in your draft response...maybe with minor tweaks. It is all about timing and flow of your response. Let's take a look at this section together:
We obviously have a disagreement here. We have an equal say in the choice of schools as we have joint custody. If you want to take this to a legal route - you are free to pursue that along with the time and expense - However I am willing to continue to try and work this out with you in the best interests of the children. We won't be able to litigate every disagreement.
The key is to be detached and not be bothered by XW's bluff or threats to get the Courts involved. Here's how I would address it:
There will be times that disagreements will arise from time to time as to be expected with divorced people who bring various views to the table when it comes to co-parenting young children. I am willing to try and work things out with you that is in the best interests of the children. Please understand that it is not ideal to litigate every disagreement. It is not a reasonable nor practical thing to do at all.
This accomplishes several things in one paragraph:
-Divorce is the new normal for you two and the kids -Two people most probably have different views of parenting -Tells XW that you are not quaking in your boots at all with her threats nor try to appease her at all -Shows her how silly she is holding that so-called threat over your head over disagreements (there will be MANY for you are their parents for life)
In the next post, I will show you two different scenarios where emails have been effective in getting people's needs met in a collaborative way. One is my email to Ms. Wonka a year ago (or was it two??) and you may recall how PigPgen's estranged wife was solidly resolute in her refusal to allow PP to see Woofie? Yah, that one. I supported PP in composing a email to his wife.
Now, I think it would not hurt you at all to show a little vulnerability to XW about your concerns. This was how PP was successfully able to get his XW to allow him time with Woofie.
Of course, you can change the wording to suit your style. You don't want to come across your emails as a disembodied voice from "out there."
It can be done and it has been done so quite successfully around here in the forums.
The email to Ms. Wonka regarding acknowledging the OW (barf!!) in response to her email. This was from my old Pretty in Pink thread here in the Big D forum from a while back.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Ms. Wonka,
As I indicated earlier, I am now getting back to you.
First of all, I appreciate your effort to open more dialogue between the two of us. I can only imagine that sharing your thoughts cannot be easy at all for you and it is helpful to know your perspective on certain matters.
In regards to your comments about OWName, I can see how you would think that “it is a one-way friendship.” I wish to reiterate that I did and do acknowledge OWName. I think your approach was very off-putting in that it, to me, came across as trying to strong arm me into accepting something that I am very uncomfortable with. This was made abundantly clear to you in my previous communications.
This recent communication from you about this very particular topic came across as demanding and insistent to me. To me, that particular type of communication was a turn-off. As I relayed to you that there will be some subjects that we will not be able to discuss freely and this is one of them. There will be times when we may not necessarily agree on some issues. In my mind, being able to show mutual respect for some differences will be the foundation of any friendship.
This whole process was mystifying to me as you appeared to want to hold all the cards to clearly define the friendship and then chastise me for thinking/seeing things differently. How’s that helping the healing process and opening up the lines of communication? You stated to me to “trust the process”…it is difficult when I am seeing some harsh and in-your face communications emanating from you. All of this comes across as a bull in a china shop…a bit hot-headed response that appears to be quite contrary to the person that I remember as being calm and pretty level-headed.
Granted, I do recognize that we pretty much had zero communications for almost 10 years and this is a new uncharted territory for the both of us. I do see quite clearly that we are attempting to build bridges each from our own sides which, to me, is a positive thing in our favor. From my vantage point of view, friendship is a partnership, not a monopoly.
At this point, I am not sure how all of this will unfold. Our friendship will never be the same as before. It’s forever altered.
I will try to answer the same question you asked: What do I want from Ms. Wonka?
For me, what I would like to see from you is respectful communications that are constructive, positive, and supportive that will be beneficial for the two of us that are the hallmark of a mutually supportive (within reason) and respectful friendship. I am sure there will be some bumps along the way. However, I am receptive to exchanging some information about some of our interests.
I would appreciate your patience, understanding, and respect for this process. And if there is something I say that makes you uncomfortable, I'd certainly appreciate if you bring it to my attention because I want this to be a two-way street.
Thank you for listening and trying to keep the lines of communication open.
Dug around and found this draft response from PigPen's thread if you are interested in the backstory on Woofie.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Suggested response to W's email (you can change to suit your style/preference):
W,
Thank you for your email. Yeah, this isn't easy at all for all of us. A divorce isn't what I want, but I will not stand in your way.
Regarding Woofie, let's be clear here, I think it is important that we both have access to him and I would like to think that it's something that can be worked out fairly. I cannot imagine you not having Woofie around you nor him not being with me. It is inconceivable that one of us be completely deprived of Woofie's companionship after raising him from puppyhood--he is our baby.
Again, I miss Woofie terribly and very much want to see him. Not seeing him for over 2 months has been devastating and heartbreaking for me. Why would you want to deny me the joy of Woofie's companionship whom we've known and raised since he was a puppy? You need to know that I am feeling pain here and I think it is reasonable work with the suggested schedule to share Woofie on a fairly equitable basis. I get that it is a new uncharted territory for us; however, I think it is valuable that we be allowed to spend time with Woofie individually and we are very capable in caring for him.
I am trying to understand your stance here in regards Woofie. As you can see, I am trying to work with you here. Help me out here...I am a bit of at a loss.
P.S.S. You don't have to be overly wordy in your response to XW's email. It is not a fencing competition...going through each point on a counterpoint basis isn't the way to go at all.
hello my friend, it has been a long time. I have not yet caught up on you but seeing you're here says a lot. It has been a long time for me. Now that school is out I will have a little more time to check in once and a while.
<3
Me-44 (45) H- 50 (51) M-'96
S-18(20)D-15(17)D-12(14)
BD Feb 2014 (he works overseas) home Oct(sep rooms) (EAs possible Pa's unconfirmed) insists wants D through July 2015 no more talk of D since
Lost - It has been a long time thanks for coming back. What is your update?
Wonka - I am working on a response today.
Quick Update... On 5/26 my S had an end of year show at school. 15 minutes before his show. I received a text that X was bringing OM to the show. He was there, and he came the next day for D's show. Subsequently, the following Monday he came to my house with her to pick up the kids, unannounced. This upset me.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
I appreciate your recent efforts to resolve the education discussions.
I believe that disagreements will arise from time to time as to be expected with divorced people who bring various views to the table when it comes to co-parenting young children. I am willing to try and work things out with you that is in the best interests of the children. Please understand that it is not ideal to litigate every disagreement. It is not a reasonable nor practical thing to do at all.
There will be times when we may not necessarily agree on some issues. In my mind, being able to show mutual respect for some differences will be the foundation of any new relationship.
Your concerns about education are not misplaced. HERTOWN is a top school system. I am willing to collaborate on a new plan for pick up and drop offs to implement into the parenting plan, once we discuss
In regards to OM and our divorce. I think your approach was very off-putting in that it, to me, came across as trying to strong arm me into accepting something that I was very uncomfortable with. I’ve known about OM since before I signed the Divorce papers, it has been painful for me to watch this unfold. I’ve felt mislead, disrespected and sad for the family we created. I have a basic need for honesty which I have not received. As a result, I’ve withdrawn myself from you as much as possible. This too is a mistake as our children need us to work together.
For me, what I would like to see from you is respectful communications that are constructive, positive, and supportive that will be beneficial for the two of us that are the hallmark of a mutually supportive (within reason) and respectful relationship, which will support the children’s future. I am sure there will be some bumps along the way. However, I am receptive to exchanging information in order to move forward.
I would appreciate your patience, understanding, and respect for this process. And if there is something I say that makes you uncomfortable, I'd certainly appreciate if you bring it to my attention because I want this to be a two-way street.
Thank you for listening and trying to keep the lines of communication open. me
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. My company is in the middle of a massive proposal with multiple partners due in a week's time. Fun times, eh.
The latest draft is much improved from the earlier versions. The only changes would be to try to whittle it down a bit more and leave out OM completely. Why? You two are divorced and you really have zero control over it. Finally, there were no mention of the OM in XW's email to you at all.
In my case, Ms. Wonka brought up OWName twice despite the fact that I clearly was uncomfortable with it and I really had to put my foot down. That particular situation differs from yours. Hope that makes sense to you.
Here is what I would present to XW:
X,
I appreciate your recent efforts to resolve the education discussions.
I believe that disagreements will arise from time to time as to be expected with divorced people who bring various views to the table when it comes to co-parenting young children. I am willing to try and work things out with you that is in the best interests of the children. Please understand that it is not ideal to litigate every disagreement. It is not a reasonable nor practical thing to do at all.
There will be times when we may not necessarily agree on some issues. In my mind, being able to show mutual respect for some differences will be the foundation of any new relationship.of a successful co-parenting relationship.
Your concerns about education are not misplaced. HERTOWN is a top school system. I am willing to collaborate on a new plan for pick up and drop offs to implement into the parenting plan, once we discuss ideas and suggestions.
In regards to OM and our divorce. I think your approach was very off-putting in that it, to me, came across as trying to strong arm me into accepting something that I was very uncomfortable with. I’ve known about OM since before I signed the Divorce papers, it has been painful for me to watch this unfold. I’ve felt mislead, disrespected and sad for the family we created. I have a basic need for honesty which I have not received. As a result, I’ve withdrawn myself from you as much as possible. This too is a mistake as our children need us to work together.
For me, what I would like to see from you is respectful communications that are constructive, positive, and supportive that will be beneficial for the two of us that are the hallmark of a mutually supportive (within reason) and respectful co-parenting relationship, which will support the children’s future. I am sure there will be some bumps along the way. However, I am receptive to exchanging information in order to move forward.
I would appreciate your patience, understanding, and respect for this process. And if there is something I say that makes you uncomfortable, I'd certainly appreciate if you bring it to my attention because I want this to be a two-way street.
Thank you for listening and trying to keep the lines of communication open.
