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pbetra Offline OP
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Thanks Job,

I appreciate the response & suggestions re resources & thread.

posted by Job - July 21 2015 /last thread,* below
If you are still looking for resources on fear, I am going to suggest that you do an internet search on the subject. I think you will find what you are looking.

BTW, you need to start a new thread. This one is going to lock very soon.

-------------------
Have started looking for resources/fear on net. Found some interesting ones but 'sifting' through.

I was just wondering re feedback here, as I recall coming across responses from forum members re other books. What they thought "good" really "liked" that sort of thing - personal responses.

Was managing my time too.
So many times I have done process x, then happened to mention it to somemone only to hear "oh that! you should have come to me first!!!" laugh Made me me crazy !! laugh

Have a good one job, thanks again, p.

--------------------------------------------------
RE: previous threads (aka 'all over the map!!!')

* last thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=11&page=1

crazy - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...743#Post2468743 confused


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Posts: 5,301
Hi Pbetra

People seem to rate Susan Jeffers on this area - feel the fear and do it anyway. I know Old Dog in Newcomers has mentioned her. He hasn't posted for a few weeks, but I seem to recall he had a fear coach linked to the book too.

I have found Brene Brown to be excellent. She has a couple of Ted talks, which are a good starting point. I have also read her book, Daring Greatly, which I would highly recommend.

Good luck to you! x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
pbetra Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Pbetra

... Susan Jeffers on this area - feel the fear and do it anyway. I know Old Dog in Newcomers has mentioned her. He hasn't posted for a few weeks, but I seem to recall he had a fear coach linked to the book too.

I have found Brene Brown to be excellent. She has a couple of Ted talks, which are a good starting point. I have also read her book, Daring Greatly, which I would highly recommend.

Good luck to you! x


Hi Toots,
Thanks for sharing. I came across Brene Brown since my post on TED! You are right, she is amazing!! I am yet to hear her other talks but want to listen to them all.

Didn't know about her book so I will buy that one for sure (& Jeffers). Saw some others (so many!!) but these are great to begin with! Will definitely check on Old Dog as well.

Thanks again Toots, really appreciate smile - have a great day! P.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
pbetra Offline OP
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Posts: 229
Hi, journal entry here.

It's beautiful today so I took some boxes outside re: my reference images & copy/text to supplement a creative project.
There I was, minding my own business ... sunshine, green green grass & 'windy wind' smile & WHO do you thinks shows up? shocked

yep h - coming "for some more things". I got hug, stroking/ back (?) wanted "to talk." I was civil (could smell smokes, alcohol ... )

He brought up what has been going on recently re us (not "connecting"). Of course all of the events re this entire experience that took place were 'different.' He was acting out of frustration, so many job applications, no money - frustration. I told him I know that it was very difficult for him & listened. He said he "never pursued anyone - doesnt know why I thought so. He's been trying, not me." (whoa) grin

H was persistent with re-writing the mlc episode (just'another day in the park'). I kept calm. Over the last few months whenever issues came up, I would see the seething rage re expression b/c I was beginning to distance myself. There were times he woudl hear emotion in my voice. He would walk away, leaving me to feel 'the guilt' ... or so he thought (not recently), I was becoming worn down, too worn to feel guilt.

He said he was trying but whenever he reaches out to me, I do not try. On some level he is right. I am more of WAW now, not just LBS ( H also does not see the connection between hostility & lack of motivation /intimacy - he expects intimacy anyway - period. I walked away to avoid escalation, as I did not know where this would lead.

I just need time alone now to breathe - think and move forward. I did note the effort he made though, he did not pursue much after this, as he noted that I was not giving in to whatever agenda he had (conscious or not).

I waited inside for a bit until he left. I have found that he would not 'let me be' since I distanced myself from him - he's not leaving me alone. My wishes are not respected. Anyway, after that, I got a little wine & returned to my mat, like a parisian at a picnic. cool

It was so breezy & sunny. Lovely day, well I certainly feel (!) the creativity re: the wine in spite of the visit! Should be interesting!
laugh laugh laugh p.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
pbetra Offline OP
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Posts: 229
Just updating, a journal entry as i feel a little 'haze' today & need to 'vent it out'

Before I go on -

my expressive arts piece
my piece turned out to be a very 'ribbony' roller coaster (must have been the wine!) blush Was trying to 'morph' the roller coaster into a more meandering calmer ride on one side of the piece. Am not done yet, as artistic prowess in this area is not my forte. Still learning!
( I sent roughs to collaborator & like FB, they 'like' (btw these regard printed literature, books, newsletters etc)

can't 'shake' active mind
getting things ready for meditation later this weekend (hadn't been to class recently/ spent so much time with child (!), & then instructor got ill) .. My mind is like an active volcano right now. I feel a bit confused so am venting ... I want to release as much as I can (vent here, going to clean after etc, get it OUT of my system, so that I can reap the benefits of the class later on.

h
h said he wanted to talk (I know that he shook things up re above/active mind).
I avoided his msgs at first since C isn't here. But he was persistent & i wondered if something was genuinely wrong!! he stopped by & we talked about the R.

he wants to try again eek For the 1st time though he did not seem to be in attack mode (?) of the sake of 'just attacking' & mouthing off. He was critical but not vengeful. He looked flustered, concerned, anxious. He explained how he felt & why.

He made sense re *two points concerning me. I AGREE re these two. (sorry to not be explicit - you know how i feel re : internet) I thought very much about this, & in future will show him the connection re his actions & my reactions to these, b/c I cannot internalize to get sick eventually - & neither should he! However, it was not the time.

I will have to do the work if I get back on this ride. I don't honestly feel to - maybe it's a 'now thing' - but then again, maybe I need to have 'vision.' Look ahead & not blow this one opp., if indeed it is an opp., & if we could actually be happy ... (?????) I really can't access at this very moment with my current 'volcano mind' just erupting stuff all over the place. (by volcano mind let me be clear I AM NOT IN ANGRY MOOD, I just mean the behaviour of the volcano - stuff inside just haphazardly thrown outside anywhere, anyhow ... 'stuff' on the go! )

conversation
I have not had this type of conversation with h for ages! I can't even remember when ... it has all been only volatile since this experience began. I promised to get back to him (with what I dont know yet) confused . After meditation, movies the weekend - will see ...)

At one point, he still projected his mothers characteristics onto me & that was a red flag. Mentally, 'I threw in the towel' even though I continued to listen. I was fine until up to a point, as it was all such heavy stuff for us both. He asked if I wanted him to leave & i said "yes." I thought it was enough for both of us, & more so since we managed to speak without getting emotional & upset. The rest could come another day. smile

Today after a good nights rest, I am thinking about the part of the conversation that was civil (!), and his issues with me. I reflected about the part that sounded like two adults talking about an R instead of listening to what seemed to be temper tantrums from an adult ( with all sorts of mosaic-piece mis-matched information & attacks).

I still feel more like a WAW as mentioned before & less like the LBS - a role he is beginning to assume. I don't seem to have the inclination to try more, not now anyway. I am enjoying my rest period. Enjoying a sense of peace without him (although I did miss him & was deeply saddened by how everything turned out) The stress re him was robbing me of everyday peace - he did not realize that he was my 'spirit-killer,' which in fact led to other issues. If we can walk this line of reasonable conversation & action, I may try again - (esp. b/c of child/"C" ).

I have to:
  • think of what (???!!) to tell him
  • boundaries
  • timelines

.. if pursued /ie., getting back on the dizzying ride ...

Going to clean & get going with my day & my plans.
Have a wonderful weekend all ! p.


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Pbetra, I would say just take the time you need. Like most of us here, you have been through a lot.

Perhaps you could initially focus on rebuilding a friendship, or trying a few months of dating to see how you feel. You certainly dont need to go from here to trying again or not trying again.

Hope the volcano settles down soon.

Take care xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,622
AJM Offline
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Agreed. I suggest that you may want to consider that you don't need to worry about the future that may or may not happen. That will just fuel the volcano mind smile

Rather, you can take things one day at a time and re-evaluate later.

It's not uncommon for the leaving spouse to try and return after some time. It's also not uncommon for the roles to reverse at that time. Just know that you're not alone in the way you feel. That change of direction is a killer. And you may remember the roller-coaster - that's when the direction changes so quickly that you can barely keep up. i.e. you're out of phase with each other, if you put it another way.

But after the hurt, we tend to build walls. Walls we don't easily break down. Nor should you for many reasons. More of a wait and see approach is likely a good idea.

And it's not uncommon to feel like the WAS at this point. In many ways, you are and you aren't. And that's OK, P. I can see that if you were to easily jump back on board, it wouldn't be much for him to work at either. Things that are worth it, take work. And he may work at it if you make that possible while respecting your own feelings.

Who knows, you may work at it as well. Or as Toots mentions, you may just end up friends.

Don't fear the journey though. And don't over-think it smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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pbetra Offline OP
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Hi Toots,
thanks for dropping by - offering feedback esp. when a volcano mind won't be dormant enough to think!

Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Pbetra, I would say just take the time you need. Like most of us here, you have been through a lot.

I think this is prudent. it's a new day & when i think about it - I really won't be able to cope right now. It's a ride I need to get off (w/all the whip-lashing) smile ... before getting back on again ..

Perhaps you could initially focus on rebuilding a friendship, or trying a few months of dating to see how you feel. You certainly dont need to go from here to trying again or not trying again.

Sounds good - I will start with friendship first.

Here at DB, we know that mlc pretty much ends our R. The old M is over. With something new, friendship might be a good start especially given the fact that we are both different & still changing anyway.

It would be interesting to see h reaction ( I heard from him yet again - did not answer call), b/c my purpose was to get the volcano to sleep, so I continued with my stuff yesterday. NO distractions, you know??!!


Hope the volcano settles down soon.

Take care xx


Thanks again Toots for your input - (much needed in times of temp. 'distress' ) p. lol laugh


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
pbetra Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
Hi AJ,
thx for responding. So refreshing when one feels a little desperate, but unable to think re sitch at the time

Originally Posted By: AJM
Agreed. I suggest that you may want to consider that you don't need to worry about the future that may or may not happen. That will just fuel the volcano mind smile

Know something you are absolutely right! The future will take care of itself! smile

Rather, you can take things one day at a time and re-evaluate later.

This is very sound ADVICE - advice I must make every effort to remember whenever things go out of whack. ONE day at a time ...

It's not uncommon for the leaving spouse to try and return after some time. It's also not uncommon for the roles to reverse at that time. Just know that you're not alone in the way you feel. That change of direction is a killer. And you may remember the roller-coaster - that's when the direction changes so quickly that you can barely keep up. i.e. you're out of phase with each other, if you put it another way.

But after the hurt, we tend to build walls. Walls we don't easily break down. Nor should you for many reasons. More of a wait and see approach is likely a good idea.

re bold above. - it takes the chaos out of my thinking to see it in words. That's right, we 'are out of phase' (!), makes so much sense. It is the opposing cycles of the two of us that is creating the havoc, havoc I don't need right now ... feels too messy.

I like the wait & see - & indicated 'same' re Toots' post, immediately before your own. To not wait & see is to 'fight the forces of nature' I think. To not go with the flow & natural order of healing will ultimately make things worse.


And it's not uncommon to feel like the WAS at this point. In many ways, you are and you aren't. And that's OK, P. I can see that if you were to easily jump back on board, it wouldn't be much for him to work at either. Things that are worth it, take work. And he may work at it if you make that possible while respecting your own feelings.[/color]

Agree with. I respect what he told me - how he felt & why. It is also the need to respect my feelings that will prevent me from acting in haste at the moment. Just can't do it. 'Doormaters' will usually want 'dormatees' anyway (not the other way around)

Who knows, you may work at it as well. Or as Toots mentions, you may just end up friends.
Like you said AJ, "wait & see" - that's what Im running with! laugh
(I have work to do ON MYSELF in the meantime)

Don't fear the journey though. And don't over-think it smile

ok won't overthink!
The fear part is my BIG, BAD MONSTER. That one's so much harder for me. My brain has to learn what is not 'traditionally' there. That's a separate journey I am currently on, which is why, I have to minimize what I can!


AJ


Thanks again Aj for your input! Like I insinuated before - when we can't see the information in a 'cloud of whirling thoughts', its' great to get an objective, CLEAR reposnse from another. Makes ALL the difference!! p smile


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 229
pbetra Offline OP
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Posts: 229
Hi there
Not much happening, just stopping with random thoughts & a little forum reading.

  • Free @ home:
I feel 'free' to be vulnerable, fail, 'whatever,' make a @$$ of myself. All without hearing some back handed comment or put down. FREE to just be ...

This was something I could not be prior to getting some space, some peace. Everything (!) was an issue - & so I kept all calm whenever I could (just like my mother), b/c that would 'solve' the problem. laugh yup sure did!! Proof of the need to clam things, balm things was the desperation I felt when I started the thread on confrontation - the bombardment of thoughts, fears ... the feeling that I had NO time to get the solution as I would lose h. The forum couldn't cough up advice fast enough! smirk

I keep telling myself to go back to read my thread btw. i haven't completed it at all. I continue to read everyone else's but not my own. I am experiencing more peace at the moment & I don't really want to disrupt it just yet! laugh I need that before I delve into the mess to 'freudian access' (lol) & learn from my sitch.

  • listening to music
I've always listened to music to relax. However, now I have a tendency to sing more (!) while listening to music. Didnt do that for a while. Also enjoy catching up with what's out there & current. Still listen to music of my 'era' but I have found that mid/elder- lifers don't always live in the 'present present'. So many people hold on to the past as they get older, "In their day ...this, that, the other ... all about "a period of time" that is already gone. I still act my age of course, laugh but I want to live here, now and don't want to be stuck in some time warp like some of my older relatives.

  • spring cleaning
have been spring cleaning like crazy since h left!! There were certain things that needed sorting etc & I just couldn't think. Well, I am a little more effective re my actions & efficient re time. These are the SAME projects I coudlnt manage before. shocked The 'mental muck' is clearly bit by bit impacting on the physical muck.

  • can do
still have anxiety every now & then when. This includes when i have to deal w/ problems related to repairs for house. It feels overwhelming.
BUT am learning I can actually 'do stuff' I never knew I could do grin, 'Stuff' like assembling furniture (!), and even tasks like 'light' house repairs.
This is a different feeling from feeling good re social activities. The realization that I could. I assumed before that only h could solve those problems. For crying out loud, I'm using tools!!! laugh

  • akeru
I refer to the akeru solution as in the *susan anderson book on abandonment, loss (*fyi, below). The use of mindfulness, the observation of present moment components from the senses. Some efforts are more successful than others but I persist as I desperately want to create NEW thinking/feeling/emotion habits for myself.
* Susan Anderson, The Journey from Abandonment to Healing

  • ongoing observation
Continue to observe that no matter what you want or hope for, there really is a process that cannot be 'forced' or hurried' as Cadet reminds us re "Trust the Process'
In nature, (human nature, universe nature .. 'nature nature' ) all must run its course - rivers breaking the dam & meandering through, carving the land on its 'own terms' relative to conditions, gradients and amt of water. It will work it's own course - otherwise the 'break the damn' effect (BOOM) will result with debris strewn everywhere. Even tiny viruses have to run their course regardless of what medicine we take sometimes - effective only for 'symptoms, ' masking the illness.

In this case the authentic expression of emotion relative to each & every condition must run its own course. This is not restricted to mlc but so many other areas of healthy human development as well.

Time is needed to heal, reveal & to resolve.
It is hard, hurtful, scary eek but surprisingly 'doable' even when doubtful.

Have a good day db-ers! p.
smile





-----------------------------
oh btw

  • h
Since my last few posts I did not accept any calls from h. I noted I got heart palpations whenever msg came in. i think its NOT knowing what it is about. I have changed. Guilt would have consumed me. Whether or not I felt like it, I would have told myself to be courteous and answer. He was contacting me a lot & got msg. We both need space.

I can hardly wait for that anxious 'auto pilot' response to him to end - & I know it will in TIME.

  • old thoughts
I no longer have the amt. of frequent reoccurring 'h-thoughts' as i did before (they still intrude occasionally but not as many, & I work to push them away when they do)

(A few months ago my thoughts compromised my well being re h. There was one particular incident where I wanted him to come back. The doubt would set in. It was challenging to remember that nothing is permanent b/c of the feeling of insecurity & uncertainty. At the time, I recalled jeckyll h,' & jeckyll is really, really nice. smile Had such a good time with him (around the time that the 'move out' was certain (!), but he was waiting for a place). The desperation to hold on to him resurfaced as I experienced that warm, kind side of him. It was SEDUCTION. The mixed feelings & sadness were torture b/c I knew that h-hyde would be back sooner or later. I had a l o n g washroom moment to express the weird sadness I was feeling).

he called a few days ago re c (back & getting ready for school). h had nice visit w/c, but not w/me. It was was VERY AWKWARD between us. pleasant small talk but very, very odd (which is fine).

I think (?) he still doesn't know what he wants. Regardless of whatever the facts are though, I have taken the road to be "friends" & to not worry about the future ( re advice, preceding posts). I also need to be my own friend (!) during this time of healing. There were times I didn't know who I was anymore.

he yesterday wanted an R talk - I couldn't deal with it. I felt the cool air over the phone. felt sorry about my choice . I know I am no 'light house' right now, but I cannot let myself slip any further. We'll get to it another time.

We really are at very different 'points on the line' now - no intersection. The cog wheels continue to turn ... the *PROCESS is in effect cool

(* Cadet)


(am laughing now - this is practically another post!) laugh laugh laugh


pbetra
----
M: 15 yrs (in 2014)
BD: 6/03/2014
Infidelity ('known' from July 2014)
Denied PA Feb 2015
2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact.
Back briefly 2017 (after family death)
Separated 2017

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