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Kramer Offline OP
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Cadet, please link my old threads
What just Happened
Kramers Journey
Letting go Q's
Newbie needing advice


Ok, my friends, this weekend has turned out to be quite memorable. I am at lunch now and will try to provide as much info as possible. I will likely need to fill in specific details as time permits over the past few days. Here goes:

I went to dinner with my wife on Friday. She was in a great mood and we talked for hours about life events. No R talk per se at dinner, but we went back to my house and that's when some in depth talking occurred. She initiated the conversation. She expressed sorrow for the affair, but als was very detailed in her acknowledgement of the pain and destruction that it caused. She described the affair fog and how she became addicted to how it made her feel, even as her family crumbled around her.

Over the next 3 days, we talked incessantly about what had happened. She answered every question I asked of her and her OM. She admitted that he ended things with her a few weeks ago. She says that she then realized how she had been used by him. He did indeed tell her that he didn't want a serious relationship with her, and only wanted to friends with benefits. She says that she is ashamed and truly remorseful for the enormity of the pain and destruction that she caused. She accepted full responsibility for her actions and appeared genuine with her answers and attitude.

She said that she had no right to ask me for a second chance, but that she wants an opportunity to try and repair this damage and is willing to do whatever it takes to fix things. She had actually already been reading a book on recovery from adultery, and agreed to IC and MC. actually, she insisted that it was necessary. She is going to reactivate her old phone and put it on my account so I can check it whenever I want. She agrees to NC with OM. she will be rescinding divorce paperwork this Friday.

She appears humbled, remorseful, and is able to articulate all that her affair has caused. She is willing to reach out to my kids, and I told her that I would not be the one to do so. She has already told her parents, children and family that she has made a huge mistake, and is going to try and salvage our marriage.

That's the gist of it so far. As good as it feels, I realize that it is still very early and the real work is just beginning. I am so very happy, yet extremely apprehensive. Interestingly, I have finally realized that I will be fine no matter what the outcome. I want our marriage to survive and be better than ever, but I am no longer afraid of being alone. I'm a good hearted person, and she is lucky to have me. So will anybody else.

I just want to add that DB/DR actions work. She said that she was moving full force ahead until she noticed my pullback and radio silence. She was angry that I seemed to be doing fine without her and seemed happy. Of course I wasn't, but she THOUGHT I was. That's the point.

Another interesting observation. I told her I had gone out on a few dates and signed up on an online dating site. She got extremely jealous when I told her this, even though my activity was minimal and superficial. I thought that was quite funny.

I am going to take things steady and slow. We will be maintains 2 separate households for now, and keep our finances separate. I'm open to overnights and weekend plans, but we need to do this right. I hope this is the correct approach.

I will certainly keep you posted of developments in my ditch. Please pray for me/us.

Last edited by Cadet; 05/26/15 08:52 PM. Reason: Links

Me M51
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T 17 yrs
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9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
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I am happy for you, Kramer. Beware of potholes, but good job.


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I'm so happy for you to get to this point and I wish you the best going forward. Take things slow and carefully.

You can do it.


At BD - Me: 33 Her: 33; M: 10 T: 15; D: 6 and 3

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Kramer - thanks for the inspiration! My wife filed and I moved out. She is still doing the affair, so seeing that it is possible when things seem so gloomy is very reassuring.

Good luck - keep us posted!


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Kramer, very best of luck to you both - that is promising news. It's still pretty early after the ending of the A, so best to expect a few bends in the road yet. But sounds like your sitch has started heading in a better direction, which is great! Take care, Toots :-)


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Kramer,
I am so pleased that you have got to this point. Keep posting. The journey has only just begun, or so I am told.


Me:35 W:30
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In House Separation: 01/14/15
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Kramer ... steps in the right direction .. but yeah word of caution, the A has JUST ended and your W was clearly more emotionally vested in that than OM was, so she will be having withdrawls for a bit, read up on Sandi's WW thread for insight there. My W came to a similar place back in March ... we have not even begun to scratch the surface where issues have been piling up ... but I would rather be here ... than at the BD place thats for sure .. keep at it .. its working.


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Excellent news - very very happy for you Kramer. You deserve the best.


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Congrats. This is encouraging news for me today, as my W just left for a first "official" date with the OW. She will come home to instructions to move into the spare bedroom, and I know it's a very long slog ahead here. I pray she and I eventually come to have a dinner conversation like yours.


Me: 46 Her: 41
M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18
3/26 W and I meet OW
BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring
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I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
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Cali,

Totally agree that she will have withdrawals and that she was emotionally invested. She says that she is extremely angry and disillusioned with OM now because of the destruction that A caused. As much as I blame my wife for all that has happened, I also realize that she will have to go through a grieving process as well.

Any advice on how to negotiate the upcoming stages would be most appreciated.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
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One of things I told my wife is that I am only willing to give this one chance. If she has further (non disclosed) contact with OM, then I am out of here. I love her and am willing to humiliate myself for the sake of our M, but it's a one shot deal. Not sure if that's too harsh, but it's how I feel.


Me M51
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Good stuff Kramer, cautiously optimistic is a great place to be.

Slow and steady.


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Originally Posted By: Kramer
Cali,

Totally agree that she will have withdrawals and that she was emotionally invested. She says that she is extremely angry and disillusioned with OM now because of the destruction that A caused. As much as I blame my wife for all that has happened, I also realize that she will have to go through a grieving process as well.

Any advice on how to negotiate the upcoming stages would be most appreciated.

BINGO

Think of everything that has happened as training for the next few stages.
Boundaries are very important as well as figuring out how to rebuild your marriage and a new relationship.
Things can not go back to whatever led to this.

I hope she is all in!


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Kramer, wish the best of luck to you going forward. While you may still have a long road ahead of you the conversation between you and W sounds extremely promising. Take things slow and keep expectations down.


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^^ X2

If she is all in , and not just pulling the ripcord because things did not pan out you will know. I would advise on limited R talks, save the issues and that stuff for the MC sessions, like Cadet said .. I would focus more on STFU, GAL, PMA and continue the 180's.

You will need to set some boundaries here, now is the time while momentum is in your favor. Like Cadet mentioned, whatever lead to this ... you both had a hand in, you need to get to those issues and address them to avoid this in the future... that's where I am currently so I have no tips n tricks .. just wish you the best.


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Kramer,

Wanted to swing by and say "hey! niiiiice!" laugh

Easy does it, buddy.

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Thank you so much for the well wishes from all of you. This site has been a lifesaver during this horrible period. I am so thankful and humbled here.

Newest updates:

Still maintaining open communication with each other. Still NC with OM, as far as I know. I am starting to realize how emotionally invested she was, and how miserable she has been over the past 6 months. She has been taking Benadryl and drinking wine on a daily basis just to get to sleep. She has been anxious, sad, lonely, and afraid. It sounds like OM started pullback even earlier than I thought.

She has been very emotional and tearful over the past few days. She is profusely apologetic with me and is willing to do whatever it takes to work. She feels used and ashamed by her actions, and says she is furious with OM. She told me that she feels like she represented a challenge to him, and that he has moved on to his next challenge. Of course, all of this true to a certain extent, but she needs to realize that she is responsible for her own actions.

One of the things she keeps repeating is that she did not know that everybody would hate her for what she did. She did not expect her bio children to side with me. She is now realizing how affairs affect everybody in your life. I let her cry, I hold her, and I validate her feelings. I do not tell her it's all ok. She needs to feel this pain. However, I am kind and non-judgmental.

Her youngest child (17) told her that she's damn lucky that I took her back, that I'm the best person for her, and that she "better not screw this up". That was nice to hear.

I can see how this process is frustrating and scary as well. There are so many raw emotions for both of us. I love her and I will do whatever it takes, but I'm also still quite wary and hurt. I'm mature enough to realize that limerance is what she felt, but it's still painful thinking about the 2 of them together, and how hurt and alone I was. I wonder which song on the radio was "their song", or if he was a better lover than I was. Were their conversations deeper? Was he funnier or kinder? You get the gist of it. I keep these things to myself, and work on acceptance.

Time will tell what happens. For now, things are still moving ahead in a good manner. Divorce will be withdrawn on Friday. Baby steps...


Me M51
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M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
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Originally Posted By: Kramer
She has been very emotional and tearful over the past few days. She is profusely apologetic with me and is willing to do whatever it takes to work.

This is all script, you seem to be handling it well.
Listening is key.
Just understand while the worst may be over,
she is not yet done and whole and healed.

Originally Posted By: Kramer

Divorce will be withdrawn on Friday. Baby steps...

Sounds really good!

Please keep your expectations low and your boundaries in place.

Here are a few threads to read
The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection


Last edited by Cadet; 05/28/15 08:40 AM. Reason: Links

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Yay! So so happy for you dear K!


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Doing well Kramer... As Cadet foreshadows stay your course she will go through OM withdrawals.... You know these emotions well as you have gone through them... Anger,sadness,confusion,betrayal,depression... Then you will need to start thinking about how to fix what landed you both 'here'

You have your pains and all that, have to keep a lock on it for now, in due time you can work that stuff out

You're doing well


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Kramer , this is great news! Most of us are still waiting for our ww to have their affairs end and the fog start to lift. Sure there's the withdrawal and piecing to handle, but everything seems to falling into place.

Congrats on the divorce being pulled Friday, that's huge!


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Ok, latest update. My wife withdrew divorce proceeding today, and just brought me official copy! She will write no contact letter today.

Things seem to be on track. Time will tell. Now, on to the hard work!


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
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Kramer - I'm so happy for you! Thanks for keeping us posted. It's great to see the success and that DB can work. Consistency, right?


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Awesome news Kramer. Way to go!!!


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Woo-Hoo! I am so glad to hear that you got the papers! talk is cheap, actions are awesome.


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No contact letter sent by wife to OM (and cc to ME). It was received by OM and his response was also cc to me. I'm seeing action!

Last edited by Kramer; 05/29/15 07:21 PM.

Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Kramer, this is awesome and very encouraging. Best of luck as you move forward. I have my DB on the way and I'm anxious/excited to get started.


Me: 32 Her: 29
M: 5 T: 11
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ILYBINILWY: Jan 15
BD: 2/13/15 (I found out, she didn't tell me)
W filed for D after I confronted OM 5-27-15
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Hey Kramer,

What was the general gist of the XOM's response? A big FU or tails between the legs??

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Congrats! Most of us are still waiting for the fog to lift. Good job, Kramer!

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Here is NC exchange:

I'm truly sorry I've hurt you. You're a wonderful person and deserve happiness.

I will coordinate with your friend to get all of your things this weekend.

OM

----------------------------------------------------

OM ,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless, selfish, humiliating and hurtful. My family and life was destroyed . I can only hope to rebuild what I have lost. In order to do that, I must end all contact with you.

Please respect my wish to regain my integrity and attempt to heal my family. I need to collect my things from your house. My jewelry, checks, bicycle importantly. My friend has offered to come pick them up this weekend. Her cell number is xxx-xxx-xxxx to coordinate . I have also given her your number.

WW


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Wow. Wow.

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This is AWESOME! So glad this has been such a turn around for you the last 2 weeks!


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Hi Kramer,

Wow, that is AWESOME! Iíve been extremely busy and havenít been on the DB Forum much at all for a few days. Boy, I missed a lot.

Good for you. Take care and keep up the good work. grin

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
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Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
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Gotta tell you. This is so crazy.

I'm not gonna lie, though. While it feels good, I'm also having some ambivalent thoughts. All I ever wanted was to save my marriage. Now it seems like things are moving so darn fast. I am so happy about these developments, but I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Originally Posted By: Kramer
I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal.

YES

Did you read the links that I gave you a few posts back?


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"Now it seems like things are moving so darn fast. I am so happy about these developments, but I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal."

Kramer, there's some content on this in DR. MWD says it's common and normal to feel this way when there is prospect of reconciling. She says all the hurt and resentful feelings start to surface and LBS can begin to feel they are making a big mistake. But actually, the feelings just need to be processed and dealt with. You may find it helpful to read up on what she says about this.

A day at a time and at a pace you are comfortable with okay? You have been through a lot and things will take a good while to improve. We'll all be here with you whilst you move forwards. Have you looked at the piecing section of this forum?? ((Kramer))


T 13 M 7
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Toots nailed it my friend! grin

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
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Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Kramer
I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal.

YES

Did you read the links that I gave you a few posts back?

Yes I did. Very informative. Thanks.


Me M51
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T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
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I've never posted on your thread but I have been following it ESP in the last month. It is so motivating to see someone reap the rewards and to see DB working live. I know the work is far from over for you but still, well done on the job so far. Keep listening to the vets.


R 25 years
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Kramer, I read through all of your posts and I just want you to know it has been an inspiration for me and my situation. I hope this comes across the right way but I'm glad to see you had some backslides and it still worked out, I get so angry with myself when I do or say something I KNOW I shouldn't do or say.

Best of luck my friend, I just said a prayer for you and your family


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BD: 2/13/15 (I found out, she didn't tell me)
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Quote:
I'm not gonna lie, though. While it feels good, I'm also having some ambivalent thoughts. All I ever wanted was to save my marriage. Now it seems like things are moving so darn fast. I am so happy about these developments, but I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal.


We see this happen frequently on the board. It's like the LBS finally gets what they so desperately wanted, and then come close to becoming the WAS themselves. Piecing is hard, and especially when she's not even gone through the withdrawal of the A yet. I hope you two will have a professional guiding you through the process.

It is great the D proceedings have been withdrawn, and that she has sent the NC letter. If you feel frustrated, confused, and/or emotionally rushed....you may need to tell her you need to slow the pace some, in order to process everything. After all, it was only a little over a week ago that she wanting to attend the birthday party for OM's daughter. So I can see why you feel things are happening fast!

She may be wanting to feel the familiarity of what she had before she was jilted (which I believe you realize it, whether she does or not). Women want to feel security in the R (to "seal the deal"), so she may tend to press or rush you a little faster than you are prepared to do at the moment. However, everything so far, are things that needed to be done.....so that's good.

The content of her NC letter was worded very well. Was this sent electronically or hard copy?

Do you still plan to live in separate places for a while?


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Kramer, so happy for this possibility of reconciliation. I hope for nothing but the best for you and will be watching your progress.

Were you shocked at her realization of what she had done, did it come out of the blue or did you see her actions start to show a little remorse before she stated she wanted to try and fix things?


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Originally Posted By: Toots
"Now it seems like things are moving so darn fast. I am so happy about these developments, but I'm also still extremely angry, hurt, and embarrassed by her actions. I'm sure this is normal."

Kramer, there's some content on this in DR. MWD says it's common and normal to feel this way when there is prospect of reconciling. She says all the hurt and resentful feelings start to surface and LBS can begin to feel they are making a big mistake. But actually, the feelings just need to be processed and dealt with. You may find it helpful to read up on what she says about this.

A day at a time and at a pace you are comfortable with okay? You have been through a lot and things will take a good while to improve. We'll all be here with you whilst you move forwards. Have you looked at the piecing section of this forum?? ((Kramer))

Thanks Toots. I am re-reading DR and DB, and will read MWD's articles on this as well. I have been looking at Piecing forum, but still afraid to call it that yet. So far, so good, though. I can't believe how this has turned around.


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
[quote]
We see this happen frequently on the board. It's like the LBS finally gets what they so desperately wanted, and then come close to becoming the WAS themselves. Piecing is hard, and especially when she's not even gone through the withdrawal of the A yet. I hope you two will have a professional guiding you through the process.

It is great the D proceedings have been withdrawn, and that she has sent the NC letter. If you feel frustrated, confused, and/or emotionally rushed....you may need to tell her you need to slow the pace some, in order to process everything. After all, it was only a little over a week ago that she wanting to attend the birthday party for OM's daughter. So I can see why you feel things are happening fast!

She may be wanting to feel the familiarity of what she had before she was jilted (which I believe you realize it, whether she does or not). Women want to feel security in the R (to "seal the deal"), so she may tend to press or rush you a little faster than you are prepared to do at the moment. However, everything so far, are things that needed to be done.....so that's good.

The content of her NC letter was worded very well. Was this sent electronically or hard copy?

Do you still plan to live in separate places for a while?


Sandi,

We will definitely have professional counseling. My IC has agreed to do couples therapy for us, and my wife is anxious to start. She has also agreed to IC, although she is nervous about it. I will continue with IC and group. No way do I want to go back to how things were before A.

You nailed it about her being jilted and wanting security with me. I realize that's why things are moving so fast. I think she had an eye opening experience from OM once the thrill of the chase was over, but she still needs to grieve and process things. She is very angry and embarrassed by OM actions.

NC letter was sent electronically with me as BCC. she says no contact from him since he sent his response. She has given me her phone and passwords. I did not see any recent history.

She is spending the night with me, but we will be keeping separate households for a while. I have enjoyed having a stress free and clean house, and do not want to go through the stressors that were present before. We need to figure out our finances, and set up a plan to get the adult children out on their own asap. That is the real work.


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Originally Posted By: gogofo
Kramer, so happy for this possibility of reconciliation. I hope for nothing but the best for you and will be watching your progress.

Were you shocked at her realization of what she had done, did it come out of the blue or did you see her actions start to show a little remorse before she stated she wanted to try and fix things?

I was not shocked by her finally realizing and owning what had happened, because this behavior was so far out of her norm. I WAS shocked by how quickly she followed up that realization with actions. She took full responsibility and has done everything that she said she would.

She started texting and communicating more frequently about 4-6 weeks ago, coincidentally after I backed off and started detaching more.


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It makes me a little nervous when the WW starts moving things so fast, b/c it is a process that one doesn't get through in just a few days. Like I said, women like to feel that the deal has been sealed in relationship matters, so she may see her moving back into the house as the seal. We have seen a few WW's do this, but most are hesitant about jumping back.....especially those who have not faced many consequences. Although she has said and done what she needs to do, I agree that you need to stay on your toes. I think it would be a big mistake to let her move home this quickly. In fact, I hated to hear that you are letting her sleep over. Seems a little fast right after OM, but maybe that's just me.

The withdrawal will be more than just her grieving the A. She will crave it, too. Right now, she's angry at OM, but I think it will pass, eventually, and she will have to deal with actually wanting to make contact with him. If she can overcome that temptation (many times), then she'll have a chance at beating it. Of course, the depression is another obstacle.

I know I hammer about the amount time it takes, but most LBS's I have read about, are so anxious to get the MR back on track that it pushes things too fast. In this case, however, it sounds as if she's the one pushing.

You seem much more level-headed now than you did just a couple of weeks ago. I hope you will stay smart. There is hope here. There is a real possibility for a new MR.





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Thanks sandi,

I am really doing my best to be level headed and steady in my actions. So far she is walking the walk. She answers every question I give her. She is consistently remorseful and apologetic for her behavior AND for the pain it caused. She is wearing her ring and insists that I do the same. She is reading books on affair recovery "Not Just Friends" and "After the Affair". She is also reading divorce Remedy. We will start MC next week.

We had a lengthy talk last night about the affair. I asked her point blank what will happen when her anger at OM is replaced with sadness. I also wondered about what she will feel when we have disagreements or things become boring. She insists that she will be open and honest, and wants to forge a new path with our M. I told her that she hurt me to the core and I am fearful and mistrustful. She said she can see my point. She appears sincere.


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Still enjoying your success Kramer! Good for you friend.

So the key for you was detaching - is that correct?

STILL struggling with that one as we have two smallish kids. W still very angry with me and continues harrange me for trying to "Call all the shots". Her face is frozen with anger and I just let her stew in it.

I am still hopeful that the changes I make within myself make ME a better person and a better MOM to my little kids.

I am grateful to read success stories like yours. You are an inspiration!


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Congratulations Kramer, it sounds like things are really turning around for you. This is the position that we all hope to be in and it sounds like you're navigating well!


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Hi Kramer, glad things are moving forward for you. I think the key is to do the work together & deal with the nasty stuff along with the nice. It's very early days, but your W truly seems willing to do what it takes - tho there may well be a few bends in the road to come yet....good luck to you both x


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Breathe

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Update:

For the most part, the last few weeks have been quite good. W has stopped divorce, sent NC letter, and is wearing her rings. We have been reconnecting and having fun together, and it seems like old times. She has been spending the night with me every night. We commute to work together and laugh and joke. She sends messages to me throughout the day and is fun and flirty. Seems like good times, and yet...

I just can't shake the feeling that there is some ulterior motive or hidden agenda here. Perhaps I am just being hypersensitive because of the deceit and double life involved with her affair. She insists that she is happy and content, and wants nothing more than to reconnect and grow old with me. I know I'm a nice guy, but come on...it was only a few short weeks ago that you were hot and heavy with OM. Let me spell out some of my concerns.

She gave me access to her phone. I read through her emails and texts last night. I don't see any contact with OM, and all previous communication with him has been deleted. I did read other emails that indicated some discrepancies in dates that she had given me. She had told me that she had not seen him past a certain date, but the emails proved otherwise. I confronted her about this last night, and she immediately went on the offensive, telling me that I was trying to trap her in a lie and to stop being so obsessive. I tried to explain to her that I need full truth and transparency, because I need that to help rebuild trust between us. When I come across something that shows a half truth or lie, whether intentional or not, it brings up doubt and insecurity. I asked her to try and see it from my point of view, but she didn't seem to get it. She said that we have had a great 2 weeks and we're starting over, so I need to back off. I explained to her that we had 16 years of good times, and she still had affair. We went to bed together, but there was definitely friction. This is the first argument so far, and I'm sure there will be more.

This morning she was fine. Happy and carefree. Nothing said about last night. She did bring up the subject of moving back in, and asked for a timetable. She seems to expect her and the kids moving back in by September. I changed the subject. It just seems like she wants to take up right where we left off, and is starting to get upset when talking about the last 8 months. Almost like she wants to forget it and move forward. Sorry, but I can't do that. It DID happen, and there is a lot of hurt and mistrust that needs to be resolved.

Of course, it probably didn't help that I went back through all of her texts with OM when they first got together. I read everything about how it started, including all the sordid details about their sexual encounters and the hurtful thing she said about me. That was probably not a good idea, but I'm trying to keep myself based in the reality of what happened.


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9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
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Let's open the flood gates a little further...

As I mentioned, W has been texting frequently throughout the day and I have been reciprocating. This is new for us but is what her and OM used to do. They texted and talked all the time and now I feel like I am being "trained" to do the same. Don't get me wrong, it's fun and I enjoy communicating with my wife, but a tiny part of me feels like I am trying to compete with/outdo OM, even though he is out of the picture. In fact, I get the same flirty responses back from her that she used to send to him. I'm sure she doesn't realize, but I have access to all of their previous texts.

Along a similar line, she seems to have an insatiable sexual appetite. This is quite different from our previous relationship. I'm sure part of it is the newness of reconnection, but I'm sure most of it is from her recent affair with OM. That's more than a little unnerving and sad to me. There will now always be comparisons and insecurities. It's pretty great right now, but what happens when things settle down?

One of my biggest fears is that now that the affair line has been crossed once, it seems like it will be easier for her to cross again. Even if it's not with OM, it could be somebody else.

Oh yeah, I also found an email to her previous boyfriend while looking through her phone. This was sent while she was with OM. It was not very I depth, but was flirty and laced with innuendo. I don't know if it means anything, other than she was having doubts about her relationship with OM, even then.

I'm sure this is all normal, but it's real hard.


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Well, you probably know where I stand. It does seem a little too over the top, her being oh-so-happy and all.

Quote:
She gave me access to her phone. I read through her emails and texts last night. I don't see any contact with OM, and all previous communication with him has been deleted.


Wait a minute, Krammer. She doesn't get to decide when you see her phone. The whole point is for you to have access whenever you decide to look, and without giving her time to give it a once-over before handing it to you. Of course, she can delete as she goes, but if she's still in contact with him, something will give her away.

Quote:
She had told me that she had not seen him past a certain date, but the emails proved otherwise. I confronted her about this last night, and she immediately went on the offensive, telling me that I was trying to trap her in a lie and to stop being so obsessive.


Did you actually read something in someone's email that contradicts what she told you?

Quote:
She said that we have had a great 2 weeks and we're starting over, so I need to back off.

She did bring up the subject of moving back in, and asked for a timetable. She seems to expect her and the kids moving back in by September. I changed the subject. It just seems like she wants to take up right where we left off, and is starting to get upset when talking about the last 8 months. Almost like she wants to forget it and move forward.


That's not a good sign. You can't just "start over" as though nothing happened. If she's not real about this, the cracks will start showing more & more. I think you need to continue to hold your ground about MC, healing, etc. And, catch her phone when she isn't expecting it. See what her attitude is, then. Oh, and there may be more deleted emails, since you've tipped her off about the discrepancies.

There are several ways a WW can get around phone/computer transparency, if she is covering up her contacts with OM. If she's not authentic in wanting the MR to heal over the destruction she's caused, she will resist and resent your questioning and checking more & more. Once she gets back into the house with you.....you've had it. You might as well lay out the "welcome limbo" mat. She's wanting to get around the work she needs to do, and that won't cut it.

Her attitude is the best transparency of all. She can put on a good front part of the time, but eventually, the attitude gives her away.


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Sandi,

She gave me the code to her phone 2 weeks ago. Last night was when I chose to look at it. She did not know that I was looking at it.

Yes, I read the email between her and her son that indicated she was with OM on a certain date. Now, to be fair, she may not have recalled the specific date. But I highly doubt it.

I believe that relationship with OM is over, because of NC letter and her friend collecting her things from his house. I think he dumped her though, not the other way around. I'm sure this scared her, and now she is after the stability and familiarity that I bring. And while I am glad she rescinded divorce, I now wonder if she did so in order to save her 401k and other assets. She does not like being alone.

I realize that I should not look a gift horse in the mouth, but I'm a little gun shy here.


Me M51
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9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
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Kramer

The sitch is always complex.

WW is very bright and I am concerned.

Not for WW but for you.

Breathe, and slow your thoughts, let your washing machine mind rest awhile.

Gently on yourself

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Warning.alarms are going offf in my head. Tread carefully Kramer


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Curious as to why you say she is very smart. What I see is someone who got dumped and is afraid of being alone. She is worried about the chaos and financial implications of being by herself and living with her children and grandchild.

I do believe she has feelings for me and wants to reconcile, but I am very worried that she is now backtracking on the work necessary to have a viable and better relationship. Going back to the way things were might be easy and feel good initially, but unless we identify and fix the problems, we will be right back at the same point in the near future.

I think I will just back off a bit and just live in the moment. I'm going to try to turn off my thoughts about affair, and not talk about R for the time being.


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Maybe because we are separated by the same language!

Street smart might be better than bright. In the UK we say bright as a button.....

Curious expression and i do believe Kramer we are saying the same thing. WW is acknowledging her fin vulnerability as well as her emotional one.

If you love WW see beyond this and if you have to be the one to Tango does that matter?

Peace

V

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Hi Kramer, sounds like you need to take it slow & maintain boundaries. Also have a think about what you need to heal before you consider living together again.

Your W's defensive response sounds like 'in wayward mode' to me. It doesn't sound like she is all in yet, and neither should you be. If you stick to low expectations and keep on with GAL, I don't think you can go too far wrong.

Take care ((((Kramer))))


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Let us hear from you, Kramer.


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Hang in there Kramer. I know the focus has been on my current sitch, but 3 1/2 years I was in a similar boat. Ww was having an affair, thought she wanted a divorce, I moved out and she started to come back towards me.mi had no idea about db or anything like this then. She approached me for sex and we quickly decided we were going to make it work. We started dated again, she cut out the om and I moved back in. Things were great and some of the happiest times we had for the next 2 years or so.

However, we never addressed the affair or worked on our underlying problems. They were still there beneath the surface and I can see now that's why I'm in the same boat now, with what seems less of a chance of ww coming back or me wanting her back now.

I'm so happy for you that you've got to this point. I hope she is willing to piece and work on things together so you two can really make it!


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Hello Kramer, it's been a while since you gave us an update. I'll add you to my piecing list for now, but do let us know how things are, however briefly. You'll remember your early days when it was so good to hear about sitches progressing in the right way. Hope all goes for the best.


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Kramer, hope everything has been going ok. Please give us an update when you can.


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Update:

Ok, I realize that it's been a while, but wanted to give everyone an update on my situation. I have been working on my relationship very hard for the last few months, and was hesitant to post because I didn't want to anger or hurt anyone. However, I can remember feeling so down and depressed when I first found myself here, and how I was looking for anything positive to hang my hopes on.

I am happy to report that our relationship is going very well. Since my wife up expectantly came back in May, we have been inseparable. She sent a no contact letter to OM, and as far as I know, she has not had any contact with him. I have access to her phone and emails, and I have checked them frequently. We talk every day about not only what happened, but how we want things to be better moving forward. We jokingly refer to our new relationship as 2.0. We have been going to couples counseling weekly. I have continues with IC, and she will be starting soon.

She has been living with me since mid May, and we are in the process of bringing the family back together. We still have the stressors of finances and drama with adult children, but we are working together as a team. We have total transparency and are approaching our problems as a team. We are not allowing secret conversations and share things with each other. Our sex life is fantastic, and we are appreciative of each other. Honestly, it's like a new relationship with somebody that I've known for 18 years.

I still struggle with thoughts of her and him together. I still wonder how she went from talking to a "friend" to sleeping with him in 2 weeks. I struggle with how easily she lied and carried on a double life, and how easily she filed for divorce. We talk about these things and are trying to move forward. She feels shame and genuine remorse, it appears. I love her, but do not trust her yet. I'm hoping that time and therapy will help.

Feel free to ask any questions that you might have. This site, and all of you, provided my only ray of hope in such a dark period. I would not have this opportunity if it wasn't for all of you. I mean that. I don't know what my future holds, but I do know that I will have given my relationship every chance to succeed.


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God bless you Kramer.

I am so very happy to read of your success and the restoration of your marriage and family. You are a true success story!

Best wishes always

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Kramer!!!!

I am so happy to hear of your wonderful update. DBing DOES work if applied appropriately. It is a real positive that you two are going to MC and IC. So so important in the piecing process.

Have your W read the After The Affair book by Janis Spring? It would be a good start since it isn't a thick tome like Not Just Being Friends by Shirley Glass.

Keep it up, Kramer. smile

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"Has your W read ....."

Jeepers...

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Wonka,

We read "Not Just Friends" together, and "After the Affair" is next!


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Wow!! Congrats Kramer. What a great update.

I'd imagine that the trust will come back in time, slowly, in waves that retreat and return but will come back.

Enjoy!


M 39 W 36
T5 M3
BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day
Served 9/15
D finalized 6/17
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Kramer,

Very happy for you. It gives me hope. Did you ever go through with the divorce or even go to court. I'm curious how that affected DBing. My WW and I just had a custody hearing and it was very hurtful. She was very angry and seemed proud and justified in her EA. Did u expereince any of this?


Me: 30's W: 30's M: 12yrs
EA: Started 3/2015
MC Started: 4/2015
She moved out and served 6/2015
PA: Confirmed 10/5/2015
2 young kids

"If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything."
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Great update kramer!!!


M - 40's
W - 30's
Two Sons
Living together
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Happy for you Kramer. Keep up the great work!


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
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Originally Posted By: Kramer
Ok, I realize that it's been a while, but wanted to give everyone an update on my situation. I have been working on my relationship very hard for the last few months, and was hesitant to post because I didn't want to anger or hurt anyone. However, I can remember feeling so down and depressed when I first found myself here, and how I was looking for anything positive to hang my hopes on.


BTW Kramer, I understand feeling guilty or hesitant to post positive things here...NO ONE will be angry (and if they are, it is not your problem). I for one am very pleased you did post...I was thinking of you and a few others that kinda stopped posting, just the other day!


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Originally Posted By: Zephyr
I for one am very pleased you did post...I was thinking of you and a few others that kinda stopped posting, just the other day!

Of course I could mention the requirement to PAY IT FORWARD as a reason to keep posting and let everyone know your sich.


Me-68, D35,S34
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