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I am SO impressed with how you handled that conversation.

I agree with 25 about the fine line. There's a line between clinging and standing as well. For example, if your spouse is in an open A you have to put up good boundaries.

In my sitch I was the first to hire a L, I filed a legal separation 4-5 months in, and I spurred the D into action in month 9. This was about boundaries.

For every action, there was a reaction. Not to control or punish. But for me to adjust to the new reality. At some point I couldn't be there for 100% financial support. That was a boundary when she asked me to move out...I had to take care of myself because she wasn't looking out for me. When I found out there was OM I withdrew my friendship, I was not going to be emotionally supportive while she was having an affair. When she started acting deceptive in our D process I limited contact to L only or priority kid issues. Again, not emotional, and really not about her at all, just about me handling my sitch the way I felt a strong man should. And I had advice from a DB coach and IC each step of the way for guidance.

At this moment I believe it *MAY* make sense to file a legal separation. This is not a "ploy" to make her think you're moving on. But the danger with the idea of letting her take all the initiative is that you leave yourself open to being taken advantage of. And while $ isn't important in the greater context of M, being taken advantage of doesn't help your cause...it shows that you're needy, not worthy of respect, and actually can ENABLE her by protecting her from the consequences of her actions. You aren't here to punish, but you're not here to enable. She's made her decision. You have to respond the way you must respond.

So I'm not advising you to file separation, but I would advise you reconsider the mindset of hitting the brakes the whole way. The more you resist the more she will need to hit the gas. Push/pull dynamic.

I also think a year is a long time. I wouldn't worry about slowing that down. Besides...I hate to say it, but WAW don't care if they're legally D or not. She will do what she wants to do whether or not she is still legally M. If the legal M meant enough to keep her from dating, etc, she wouldn't be walking away in the first place.

Just a few thoughts. Again, really, really good steps. Keep posting and stay STRONG.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Joined: Mar 2015
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koalada Offline OP
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Dear friends,
I am always thankful for your replies, because it helps me to keep me on track in those difficult times. So I explain my sitch and maybe I am going into wrong directions?

I have no problems with the idea, to be divorced from W. If there were no kids involved, I would wave goodbye and start a new life. She is no longer the W I have been married to for nearly 20yrs. And I have been honest with her about that. I have told her, that I am not in love with her right now. And she said she can understand that.

Right now it is about this family. If she feels the need to tear this family into two pieces, than she should take ALL the responsibility for this move. I want to be able to tell my kids in the future, that I did not support the end of the family as they knew it.

Am I stubborn? I am thinking about your assumption, but it does not feel this way for me. I just do not want her to be able to say: "Your Dad agreed on the divorce. That is the way adults deal with it." I am convinced, that it is wrong to end this family without trying everything. I do not want to give her any support for an idea, that is against my conviction.

Another point is: She does not share anything about her life. She asks a lot of questions, is looking for informations from me "where have you applied?", "When could the new job start?", "Where are you going?" and so on. But she does not share anything about her life. Nothing. Just vague stuff. So I have no idea what she is thinking or doing right now. I do not trust her.

Well, those are my thoughts. Let me know, what you think about it. Maybe I am heading for the wrong direction.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
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koalada Offline OP
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Today she had an appointment with a psychiatrist. She told me that she prescribed an AD. She hopes to become more stable. She knows that I take an AD myself and she asked me about possible side effects.
I told her about my experience and encouraged her to make it through the possible side effects during the first weeks.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
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Originally Posted By: koalada
Dear friends,
I am always thankful for your replies, because it helps me to keep me on track in those difficult times. So I explain my sitch and maybe I am going into wrong directions?

I have no problems with the idea, to be divorced from W. If there were no kids involved, I would wave goodbye and start a new life. She is no longer the W I have been married to for nearly 20yrs. And I have been honest with her about that. I have told her, that I am not in love with her right now. And she said she can understand that.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person to say, you are saying way too much to her.
Those comments about how you are "not in love" with her, are said for what purpose?

What is the GOAL of those remarks? If you cannot clearly define the goal AND how your comments advance your position toward that goal, then stop making those remarks.



Right now it is about this family. If she feels the need to tear this family into two pieces, than she should take ALL the responsibility for this move.

First off, she does not believe SHE is "tearing the into two" pieces. You think that.
She clearly has been in a lot of pain and did not make this decision lightly or quickly, regardless of how it seems to you.

Secondly, Only a few days ago, you agreed that you played a significant role in how you two got here. You said you'd keep the focus on your own path and growth towards self improvement.

So you are revising things again, (just as she may be doing when she says it was "all or mostly all bad".)

And you are again into "assigning blame", which is not helpful. I must stress the importance of something my DB Coach told me, which was to "Lose the scorecard, because keeping score does Not ever help marriages"...ever.



I want to be able to tell my kids in the future, that I did not support the end of the family as they knew it.


You think they don't know that already? And to what end would your words be? Again you are trying to be declared "right", and to make your wife wrong.

My point here is not to make you wrong but to show you that your efforts are misdirected and fruitless. There is no such thing as being "the winner" in this. So stop assigning blame. Assigning blame does not help anyone and If anything, it just slows or prevents your growth and YOUR own happiness.


Am I stubborn? I am thinking about your assumption, but it does not feel this way for me. I just do not want her to be able to say: "Your Dad agreed on the divorce. That is the way adults deal with it."

1) hard to believe she'd say that; and 2) that they would believe it;

and 3) that it makes any difference what you say now.

My question for you is, what is your plan to prevent it? You have NO control over what she tells them.

You DO control how they see YOUR behavior, however. So why not focus on that?


I am convinced, that it is wrong to end this family without trying everything. I do not want to give her any support for an idea, that is against my conviction.


Yes, we know that and you know that and she knows that. What's the point of belaboring this? You need to see a lawyer to know your rights and figure out a game plan for the LEGAL side of this.

And you need to keep your own path of self improvement going.

We know this isn't easy. It's darn difficult. But in a lot of ways, it's also not that complicated.

Back to YOU...




Another point is: She does not share anything about her life.


So you can share less of yours. You cannot control what she says or discloses. Just what you share and disclose.

Again I say, BACK TO YOU...
-- Nothing. Just vague stuff. So I have no idea what she is thinking or doing right now. I do not trust her.


No one said to trust her. But what is it you must "know"? Why so much focus on HER and HER Plans and thoughts?? Sense a pattern? You keep steering off of your own path and onto hers. Get out of her sandbox.

Stay in your sandbox and do YOUR work.

She says she wants a divorce. That's pretty much the only thing you need to know from her, along with the legal information that only seeing a lawyer for yourself, can provide.



Well, those are my thoughts. Let me know, what you think about it. Maybe I am heading for the wrong direction.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 05/03/15 09:36 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Hello koalada,

I am so sorry to hear about all the trouble you are dealing with. It is gut-wrenching, I know. In my honest opinion, it seemed like you were moving in the right direction, but it seems like now you're taking a step or two back. We all stumble, boy I know I sure do!

Please read 25's comments, questions to you and advice in the last post. 25 is right on.

I wish you well. You CAN get through this.

Bob


Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS)
M:14 yrs
T:15 yrs
No children together--3 each from previous marriages
Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14
Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14
Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Joined: Mar 2015
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koalada Offline OP
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25yearsmic, I thank you for being honest with me.

I do not want to give her the impression, that I am not interested in her stuff. If I am too short with words, she might think, that I am cold or rude or bitchy.

Yes, you are right! I have lost the path again. In moments like this, I get the impression, that I am just not able to make it. I had some good days and I have thought, that she became a bit warmer and BANG she tells me again ILYBINILWY. I pick up myself and try to be unimpressed, work on my stuff and I get the impression, that she is less distant and BANG, she tells me, she is still planning the D. I am hopeless right now.

Part of our marriage problems was, that I was emotionally distant for a long time. If I am distant right now, she might think that I am back into old patterns. "Yeah, I know this look on his face. He is not interested in that what moves me."

She feels bad. She has told me about her doubts regarding her ability to ever work again. She told me, that she thinks she is gullible. Today she told me, that she has been desperate for hours, that she would be overwhelmed by life. (This has been the first time in month, that she has spoken that open about her emotions, without talking about R). I feel selfish, if I do not take care of her emotional situation, if I do not support and encourage her.

I am really confused and messed up. So I go back to the book and your posts and start again. Yes, I still try to please her and to impress her and to manipulate her. Most of the stuff I do is for her and not for me. So back to start.

Last edited by koalada; 05/04/15 08:28 PM.

Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
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koalada Offline OP
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Today I have been to IC. She said, that it is important for me to become stable as a person, to find the stuff inside, that is independent of others. I have some homework assignement to do during the next weeks. It sounds selfish, but she said, that right now it is just about the things that I can do for myself. Treat myself good, get to know myself better, find out what I want and don't want, what I expect from life.
We have also spoken about some dynamics in the marriage, that have caused problems. And she said, that I should stop blameshifting. It would be fruitless. But she did not gave much room to the marriage-talk. Most of the time it has been about detachment.

It has been a great day.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 117
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koalada Offline OP
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W. still planning the separation. She tries to figure out a way to get out of the contract with the landlord. I've noticed that she's grabbed our lease, scanned it and sent it somewhere.
Again she is polite but distant. She is asking a lot of questions regarding my applications. But she shares nothing about her thoughts.
"what was inside your mail today? "," what happens with application for X?"
I will try to accept the idea that this marriage is finished and let go. Take care of the kids and myself. But this is a painful thought for me.
Should I start working with her on the details of the separation? I still think it is wrong to divorce yet, but w seems to be so committed that I actually see no way, that this story will get a happy ending. In about four weeks is our 20th anniversary.


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,917
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Keep fighting. Don't give up until she's gone. Don't tell her you don't love her. You can feel that somewhere deep down it's in her to love back, something is stopping the process right now.

I understand that you are feeling terrible right now. Me same. I want the earth to stop and let me get off, just for a breather. Keep with it pal!


M 45 W 52
SD22 S9 D8
BD 6 April 2015
Not living together 4 Dec 2015
Joined: Mar 2015
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koalada Offline OP
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I have started to read all the posts from the beginning and one question is important for me.
Yes, she bought new underwear at some point, yes she has lost weight, yes, she has told me that she fell in love with someone she has never met (and there would have been no contact since than).
During the everyday life I can see no proof for an affair. S10 sleeps often in her room, she does not do a lot of texting during the day or has "mysterious" appointments or meetings and so on.

I know, that I have been a crappy husband for years, so I could understand if she would want to leave.

Is she a WAW because she might have been just fed up with the M or is she WW because she once (I do not know about this EA still going on) fell in love?


Me 46
W 45
S16 D14 S10
M 20 yrs in June T22
12/14 sleeping in different rooms
01/07/15 she said she wants a separation
02/26/15 I moved out
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