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A Message from Michele
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Lost & confused #2559162
04/20/15 03:39 PM
04/20/15 03:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
C
Clairee Offline OP
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Clairee  Offline OP
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
This is really hard and I don't know where to start. So please forgive me if I'm all over the place.

I've been M 17y, T 18y. I am 43 & H is 40. We has 3 kids s17, d13, d12. Our M hasn't been perfect & I've made plenty of mistakes & spent many of those years ignoring my M & H's feelings, wants & desires. I've been working on being better & I'll get to that. Skip ahead. My H is in the military. 2 years ago he had a stroke & while it didn't cause any lasting physical effects, it did cause him to have to change jobs. In Nov he left for California to go to schools for his new job. We live in Hawaii. We have good friends in CA, so he was hanging out with them. He met OW through a mutual friend & began texting. H didn't tell me anything about it. I found it when I opened the cell bill & found hours of texting every day. I asked him who that was, he told me. I asked for details about who she was..M, S, D, kids, etc. She was single but in a relationship. I said I was uncomfortable with the quantity of conversation. That I didn't feel a single woman would spend hours on a man who she knew was unavailable to her & there was something deeper on her part even if not on his. He assured me it was just friendly chit-chat. The weekend after Thanksgiving I flew to CA to spend a few days with him. He wanted me to meet her so I could see for myself it was just friends. We met up with a group of friends & she was there. She was very cold & acted strange. She wouldn't talk when I was around, but when I walked away she was just the life of the party until I reappeared. She spent the evening giving me dirty looks. H was very attentive, almost overly so. When we left, H apologized. He said he saw how she acted & was surprised but that I must have been on to something. H never spoke to her again. H came home in Dec for Christmas. Things were good. Things were normal. While he was home, we got word that a friend had died. We were both shaken by this. I flew back with him to CA to attend the memorial in Los Angeles. I stayed about a week. We were very connected especially with our shared loss. When I left H was very expressive of his love & how much he wished I could stay, this was the 1st week of Jan. Fast forward to the end of Feb. H & I are members of an MC & they had their state convention. The Friday before the convention started a fellow brother had his retirement ceremony at the same place. H attended. Friday night, I get an alert that a purchase has been paid from our bank. I have it set to alert me of any charges over $50. I logged in to find a hotel charge. Now keep in mind, I've not spoken to him much at all. He's been busy. The retirement & then opening night of the convention. I am not one to call all the time while he's out. He usually calls every couple of hours just to say he's ok & he loves me. Not this night. I called his cell. No answer. I called at least a dozen times. No answer. I called the hotel & they transferred me. Still no answer. About 20 minutes later, he calls. Said he woke up to go to the bathroom & saw the missed calls. I was furious. We had not discussed getting a hotel room. We have a standing rule, we each can spend up to $100 a pay period without talking to the other but anything over that we have to talk about & agree. He said he got too drunk at the conventions opening night events & couldn't drive back to his barracks room. He said he didn't want to sleep on a floor somewhere so he got a room. He apologized for not talking to me first. Said he had every intention of calling as soon as he got to the room but passed out. The next morning he apologizes more. Sunday the last day of the convention he is still apologizing. Sunday night I looked at the phone bill. Why I don't know. But I did. I saw a strange number from New Mexico. I asked him. He said it was the brother who retireds sister. He had met her at the retirement & she worked for a hot air balloon company & he thought that was interesting. They exchanged phone numbers. I warned to remember the last time. He swore it wouldn't go there at all. Now I'm watching the bill...daily. I'm seeing the texts. Well, not the actual texts but the number of them. She is texting him every single day! All through the day & night. He says it's nothing just asking questions about our MC, chit chat. I said its excessive & needs to be backed off. I don't like it. He blames our separation on why I'm feeling this way. Says I'm letting my insecurities take over. Fast forward slightly to middle of Mar. I fly out for spring break. We argue about this OW. He agrees to back it down. Things go good the rest of the trip. A few days after I leave, he has a guys night out with some of the guys he goes to school with for pizza & beers. He doesn't talk to me much that evening. But that's how it is when he's out with friends & I understand. I'm not clingy. But again my gut is in knots. I check the phone & he spent the entire 3 hours texting with her while with his friends. I am livid now. I yelled, I cursed, I cried. He apologized. He swore to cut off all contact immediately with her & her brother. With anyone he knew associated with her. The next morning I logged into his email, haven't looked at his email account in YEARS! Not even when his phone was in my purse. I found in the spam folder this online texting website. It was a thanks for registering email. I asked him about it. He said a buddy had told him about it & he installed the app but didn't like it. I called BS to that. Well not to him but in my head. So while he was in class, I reset the password & logged in. Nothing. It was empty. Not a single contact, nothing. I was staring at the screen kicking myself for being so suspicious when message from her pops up. In a moment of uncontrolled anger, I replied 'stop messaging my husband' I wanted to say more, but I held my tongue & temper at least with her. I proceeded to unleash the wrath of hell on H through text then phone. I said that was it. I was done. I even called an attorney. We spent the next several days talking. Really talking about the issues. I decided I needed counseling because I didn't know how to forgive him. I made an appointment with a marriage friendly counselor the next week. I was very clear with her, I didn't want to divorce I wanted to learn how to forgive him. Things are great at this point. I'm 3 weeks into therapy & really letting go of things. I feel closer to H despite the zip code differences. We are talking for hours everyday. Using FaceTime so we can see each other. We're planning for him to come home & buying our 1st house next year. H comments all the time about how different I am & how much he loves me. H is posting memes on FB to me every day. Every morning I wake up to a good morning text & quick phone call before he goes to call. And he stays up late so he is the last person I hear before bed. I mean things are great! I have never felt more love for him than I do now. Now that brings us to the now...

Thursday I got a phone call from a very good mutual friend. Part of our MC & a couple we hang out with when I'm there. As close to a sister as I have. She is crying when I answer the phone. She proceeds to tell me H is up to no good. He spent the entire weekend at the convention with the OW. She doesn't have details of everything just what her man told her my H had told him. This past weekend he spent the evening hanging out at their house. While there, in my friends words, he was bragging about hooking up with this OW & showed pictures. He had pictures she had sent him of herself in lingerie & some nude. My friends man was shocked & disgusted. They didn't know what to do but decided since he didn't show them any remorse or regret, he had to still be doing it & I needed to know.

I confronted H. He denied. Threw them & 1 other person who knew under the bus that they were lying. So while H was on my cell, I used our house phone to call the other person that knew. With H able to hear every word, I asked. He confirmed everything I had been told. That's when H confessed...sorta. He didn't give me the full truth in one shot. It dragged out over Thur & Fri. The reason he hadn't talked to me at the convention wasn't just because he was busy with MC stuff but because he was with her. He met her at 4, by 5 he said he decided to hook up with her. He took his wedding ring off & put it in his pocket. He said they hung out at the convention & then got the room because he was too drunk to drive. I asked if he asked her to go to the room with him & he said no she just followed & he didn't stop her. He said they got in the room & he kissed her. But they didn't have sex. He said not having condoms was his safety net to not do it. He said when the time came he couldn't & that gave him an out. But she spent the night. He says they both stayed fully dressed. He said he was lonely. He missed physical contact that phone calls & FaceTime wasn't enough because he couldn't put his arms around me. He says he was trying to fill a void & it didn't work because it wasn't me. Then he admitted he thought he could have a right now thing & keep his forever with me. That no one would tell me & I wouldn't know. He said he didn't think it all the way through that he was only thinking about being lonely. He didn't think he could lose everything he said that never even occurred to him. How could that not occur to him?! He said he felt so guilty about it & that he wasn't bragging but just had to tell somebody. I didn't & still don't believe that. I told him if he was so guilt ridden, he wouldn't have kept contact & he damn sure wouldn't have kept a photo scrapbook.

So now it's Saturday. He is begging for another chance. I had a counseling session yesterday & I don't think I've stopped crying for more than 10 minutes at a time. He sends me texts. One in particular he says he has always said he was who he was, like him or not it doesn't matter, he likes who he is. But that he was wrong because he hates who he is & how he's hurt me. He says he'll do anything for me to stay. The only thing I promised was I wouldn't file for divorce right now. He asked me if I could give him a chance. I told him I didn't know. That right now I feel sick. I visited him just weeks after this & he acted like nothing was going on or had happened. We made love daily. It was all BS. I told him knowing all of this makes me sick to my stomach. Knowing he touched her & then me makes me feel like I want to scrub my skin off. I am so disgusted. It doesn't matter that he says he they didn't have sex. I don't believe anything out of his mouth. Why go to all that trouble & not get the prize? He has called me today almost every hour & he always says I love you. I can't even say those words. H probably thinks it's punishment, but I just can't say them. My head says I love him, but I don't feel it in my heart. I feel empty & broken & humiliated. I feel nothing but pain.

So google searching for help, I came across this forum. So here I am. I don't know what to do next. I don't know if he's sincerely sorry. I don't know if he means he'll do anything. He has said he will find a counselor or talk to a chaplain. I don't want to make knee jerk decisions but I'm tired of his lies. I finally told him last night, please stop hurting me with your lies. Just please stop hurting me more.

I know he has plans to meet our friends this weekend & apologize for putting them in such a bad place of having to tell me & he said he plans to tell them he is going to do everything to make it right with me. I think I need him to do that because he humiliated me to them.

I am just lost. Guidance is greatly appreciated because while I haven't decided to stay, I haven't decided to leave either. I am stuck in this horrible place in my head & heart. I do love him. But I don't like him & I don't respect him.

Tweets

M:43
H:40
S17, D13, D12
Married 17 years, together 18 years


M: 43 H: 40 M: 18y
S17,D13 D12
IC 11/2014
BD 4/16/15
H home 6/25/15
OW2 EA 6/26/15
MC started 7/22/15
Baby stepping....
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Clairee] #2560915
04/25/15 05:17 PM
04/25/15 05:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,170
NY
Cadet Offline
Member
Cadet  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,170
NY
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-66, D33,S32
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Cadet] #2561558
04/27/15 06:52 PM
04/27/15 06:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
T
Train Offline
Member
Train  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
You still around, Tweets?


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Train] #2561594
04/27/15 09:14 PM
04/27/15 09:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 586
Ohio
M
mvgfwd2 Offline
Member
mvgfwd2  Offline
Member
M
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 586
Ohio
As they say around here: "believe nothing what he says and half of what he does". It took me 7 months for my W to fess up to what she did and I still don't believe I have the whole story. At least she has been true to not contacting anyone who was involved since I found out.

At this point he must DO things to regain your trust if that is even possible. He can't just talk about seeing this guy or that one for help. He has to do it. He's a big boy, time to act like one. You can't really tell him what to do. It's for him to do what it takes to get your forgiveness. That means he has a lot of work to fix this mess he created.

Tell him your boundaries. You have to take action if he breaks them or they are not really boundaries. My boundaries included no contact ever again with OM, her brother and best friend. And the full truth of what happened. That one she failed to do and I am still not sure what to do at the moment. But make up your own boundaries of what you will not put up with. It's up to him to prove to you he is in compliance if he wants to respect you.

Next you need to work on being the best person you can be. One only a fool would cheat on. And one that is unavailable if you are disrespected anymore.


Me:49 W:45
M:19 T:22
EA confirmed and ended 8/2014
S:19,17 D:9,5
Re: Lost & confused [Re: mvgfwd2] #2562217
04/29/15 06:07 AM
04/29/15 06:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
C
Clairee Offline OP
Member
Clairee  Offline OP
Member
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
I'm still here. Reading & drawing strength from others who are going through what I never imagined going through.

I have been very honest with H that as much as I want to believe everything he says, I don't because of the lies & coverups. H says he understands & that he caused that. He has gone to see a counselor & during that session the counselor asked him why I didn't leave. He had no idea. So it's making him at least think. He has apologized more times than I can keep up with & I hope he really means it. He agreed to the boundaries I set...no contact with OW or her family. No drinking. To tell me the full truth about everything. And to apologize to our friends he put in an awful position of feeling they needed to protect me & tell me. He did all of that but I'm still stuck on if he's telling me the whole truth. Being in 2 different states & not being able to see his eyes & body language makes it impossible for me to believe. I'm flying to where he is next month. I'm hoping face to face I will find that answer.

Today I opened the door to a flower delivery. He hasn't given me flowers since our youngest was born 12 years ago. I was completely shocked. It really isn't like him to spend money on flowers or even think about doing that. The card said he loved me & would do everything he could so I never forgot that. It was sweet & complete surprise.

I'm worried about the trip. I have told him about the images in my head I can't shake about him & OW. I have been totally honest with my concerns. I'm afraid he'll take it that everything is peachy & forgiven when that isn't anywhere near the truth. He says he knows that & knows this is a very long road.

I wish I could be more confident in his actions. Seeing a counselor I know is hard for him & way outside his comfort zone. I have my own counselor although I'm not entirely sure she's right for me. Last session she almost seemed hostile that I talked to him on the phone before he had seen a counselor. I have another appointment this week & if I feel the same hostility, I think its time for someone new. Because I have decided 18 years together with more good years than bad is worth trying to forgive & repair. And I do love him, we have been happy & pray we can be again.


M: 43 H: 40 M: 18y
S17,D13 D12
IC 11/2014
BD 4/16/15
H home 6/25/15
OW2 EA 6/26/15
MC started 7/22/15
Baby stepping....
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Clairee] #2562378
04/29/15 04:08 PM
04/29/15 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Sotto Offline
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Sotto  Offline
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S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Tweets

It sounds like your H is genuinely remorseful and willing to do 'whatever it takes' to repair things with you. I think what you are feeling is perfectly normal. And it's especially understandable if your H isn't physically there with you.

Have you been over to the piecing section of this forum at all? There may be some useful content in there for you. One thing that people seem to agree on is that piecing is tough, so don't be surpised if there are ups and downs still to come.

It does sound as though you are on the right track though. In terms of your worries about trust, the advice on the boards is normally 'trust but verify.' This means an open and transparent approach with email log ins and so on - but maybe a further source of intel available that your S is unaware of. Just a thought, and I'm in no way an expert on this. Others may have more advice.

Good luck in your journey going forwards :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Sotto] #2562441
04/29/15 06:45 PM
04/29/15 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
C
Clairee Offline OP
Member
Clairee  Offline OP
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
Thanks Toots. I haven't been to that forum, I will definitely check it out. I am working on my own issues right now, being a better person & letting go of the past. I acknowledge & accept my faults & am working to not be that same person making the same mistakes. He gave me access to everything & had gone as far as screenshotting his texts with people so I can see them. Since we are so far apart, I asked that he not delete anything until I'm there & if I want to see phone, computer, whatever he has to make that available. He agreed. He removed the OW & her entire family from his Facebook & blocked their numbers on his phone. He did it while we were on FaceTime so I could see him do it. Before he did, he sent them all a no contact message & included me in the group message so I could see everything said by him & by any of them. I'm trying to acknowledge the things he is doing, even if I have doubts. I've told him how much I appreciated him going to IC & that I know it isn't something easy for him to do.

Last night we talked about my trip & he said if things are uncomfortable being in the same room/bed, he'd sleep on the floor or get me another room. That he didn't have any expectations. He just wants the opportunity to show me he means what he is saying & it is the truth & to have a chance for me to remember the good times we have together.

Sometimes I get angry when he's talking like this & doing all these things. Where was this guy all along? Why did it take me calling a divorce attorney for him to do these things?

Ugh! Up & down is so right. There are hours in the day I don't know the difference between my head & my rearend!


M: 43 H: 40 M: 18y
S17,D13 D12
IC 11/2014
BD 4/16/15
H home 6/25/15
OW2 EA 6/26/15
MC started 7/22/15
Baby stepping....
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Sotto] #2562521
04/29/15 09:44 PM
04/29/15 09:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
T
Train Offline
Member
Train  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
Has your H agreed to a full transparency plan? Has he given you access (usernames/passwords) to all his accounts, including bank, cell phone, etc.?

I'm a firm believer in "trust ... but verify."

I can't imagine how tough this is when you're in a "long distance" situation.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Train] #2562523
04/29/15 09:49 PM
04/29/15 09:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
T
Train Offline
Member
Train  Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,433
Also, I'm with you re: your H saying he was alone in a hotel room with OW and stopped at kissing her. If he has that kind of willpower, he's the only man I've ever known who did. I'd demand a full-panel STD screening just to be safe. If he didn't sleep with her - and if he wants to do whatever it takes to get back into your M - he shouldn't mind. I'd do this before being intimate with him again.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Re: Lost & confused [Re: Train] #2562542
04/29/15 10:48 PM
04/29/15 10:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
C
Clairee Offline OP
Member
Clairee  Offline OP
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 95
He has agreed to everything I've asked without the slightest hesitation. Email, facebook, credit card statements, phone bill, everything. I don't have access to his computer or phone to verify anything because we're in 2 states. But he agreed to not delete anything & said I would have whatever access I felt I needed to move forward. I can't see text messages but I can see the bill & he's had no contact with anyone I don't know. He calls me almost every hour until bed. I can see through his Google account his search & history & I've not see anything out of the ordinary in it. And there's been no charges on any credit card for anything he didn't tell me about, even before all of this & no cash withdrawals. So I don't believe there's a hidden phone anywhere.

Not being able to ask the questions in person adds to my inability to believe they didn't have sex. He did account for his entire night, I asked for step by step, drink by drink details, I wanted nothing left out. Everything that happened before walking through the hotel room door I was able to confirm with other people. It's what happened behind the door only he or the OW can answer & he swears he didn't have sex. I've tried tripping him up, I guess that's the only way I can describe it, with random thoughts or questions & not when we are having serious conversations & he hasn't changed the answer yet. I plan to ask face to face where he can't look away or hide behind a text/phone call. Where I can see his eyes, see his body language. We have one friend he talks to about this & our friend says he swears to him he stopped & couldn't do it. Right now, I'm working off the assumption it did happen. I wasn't there, I have no proof one way or the other & if I'm really going to get passed it, I have to just accept it did & work from there. Otherwise I'm fooling myself with my desire for it not to have happened.

He just had his annual physical for the military so he didn't have any STD or that would've come out. But I did already have this discussion & he maintained he didn't have sex with her or anyone, he said if I needed him to get tested he would do whatever it took to make me comfortable.

My biggest problem is not being able to let myself even think about forgiveness. I don't know how to do that. How do you forgive & move forward? Even if there was no PA it was an EA & I'm stuck on how to move passed that.

Ugh! Nothing in my life prepared me for this kind of crap!


M: 43 H: 40 M: 18y
S17,D13 D12
IC 11/2014
BD 4/16/15
H home 6/25/15
OW2 EA 6/26/15
MC started 7/22/15
Baby stepping....
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