Well I danced with the sea creature in the abyss and now I just need to get back to be-ing. Last thread locked so I will paste this here by way of recap for those just joining. Will come back to respond to the kind words by Jim, Calibri, Toots, V, Maybell, Zelda and Gg.
Originally Posted By: ganb8te
For those just joining: meet ups every 2-3 months since separation Jun 2014, tonight was the first time I saw H since Dec 2014 with 1-2 texts since then, apparently no committed OW. Generally detached and good PMA with pretty good GAL. Few backslides except the occasional pity party, generally self-inflicted).
... ... ... ... THE SKINNY: Well that was a disaster. The punch line: I went running after, gave him a hug, and finished by saying I will expect to see the papers in the mail come June. No wait...I called him back after I got home and said that I think I failed to convey that regardless of how this ends I did enjoy our time together. He wanted to end the call since it's been a long night. He did say "he's got a lot to think about" a few times during the evening.
... ... ... ... THE LOW DOWN: Usual chit chat for a while until he says it: his new years resolution was to have a better relationship with me, though he doesn't really know what that involves.
Now call me stupid but I took that as a positive signal....
So I said something to the effect of: thank you for sharing that with me. Something I've been wondering about was if we might maybe meet up a bit more regularly?
To which he said: What do you mean?
To which I said: Like sometimes I see things that would be fun to do and I think about calling you and asking if you wanted to come.
To which he said: No he doesn't want that.
To which I said: errr.....so can you clarify what you mean when you say you'd like to have a better relationship with me?
He couldn't and then I should have STFU.
The subsequent conversation went around in circles. He wants to be friends, doesn't want a romantic relationship (doesn't see how things could be different, we're just different people), but since we spent a long time together feels like that should count for something ("society demands it", "plenty of other people are friends with their Xs"). I said well no, not really interested in that as you've hurt me a lot. Can go separate ways if we want (no kids, no major assets), not really getting much out of "friendship" as is though.
Since I'd already dug my hole I figured I may as well get more info. I asked flat out if he was seeing anyone right now - sounds like no but he "has been on a few dates". I asked if the dating started before we separated - he said no (and gave me a big stare). He asked if I had been dating and then added gee its been 10 months surely you've been dating - I said I didn't want to get into it. (He made a few references throughout the night about how he wasn't sure how much we should sharing with each other).
I said - so when we first separated you said you didn't know what the outcome would be. I asked if his position had changed. He said he didn't understand what I meant. I clarified. He repeated that he didn't understand the question. Long story short I basically coerced him into saying the words "we will be getting a divorce" though he never used the word "divorce" until after I spelled it out to him. Gah!
He did reinforce that the biggest issues were: - I don't listen and he'd given up on telling me how he feels because there was no point* - we had no outside interests, there was just the relationship - work life balance was an issue for me** * this boils down to what he thinks he conveyed vs what I think he conveyed. I agree that I was not always giraffe ears, but I also think he was a Nice Guy. In other words, we both have things to work on. ** I'll own my part in bringing home work stress and having a job that takes me away 2-3 times a year (so does he). I do draw the line in a lot of areas though (rarely working at nights/weekends, turning email off on weekends). I feel like he has unreasonable expectations yet never did we sit down and talk about what changes needed to be made to save the R. And certainly when we first met I was freaking vet student so busy all the time.
I did convey: - yep - I appreciate that it may have seemed that I wasn't listening at times (though my attempt to use an example may have backfired) - yep - emotional fusion - common problem in long term relationships and help is available for couples like us...which is why this is so frustrating to me (he never did read Passionate Marriage) - I'm not asking him to come back to an unhappy marriage - why not try hanging out a bit more and seek how it goes - no expectations (was the gist of my original response to his new years resolution)
So yeah...after he left, I ran after him and said this may be the last time so we may as well hug. It was a long hug that was reciprocated. And then I called him after I got home. There was confusion on the call - he seems to think that he always responded to my emails/texts since we separated. My experience is different.
... ... ... So confusion all round. Not my best DBing and frankly I'm pretty close to done. I look across the table at him and feel like I've been here before - a partner who is not willing to work on the M even now things are out in the open.
I feel like this was my final showdown. Sure there was pursuit but I left the ball squarely in his court. Take it or leave it. He says he's leaving it though I swear he keeps adding something to the effect of "not right now".
It hurts to know that he says he was feeling so hurt and that I didn't recognise this while we were M...and that I can't convey my remorse over that. That hurts more than the pain he's put me through the past 10 months to be honest (though he said multiple times that I'm a nice person). Maybe I am just in the "too little, too late" camp.
Please, I need some 2 X 4s as well as a new way forward. Thoughts very appreciated. Total NC has not changed much in 10 months. A 180 would be to engage more frequently but to do so would ignore the fact that he just told me he does't want to increase interaction and will file come June (though it seems I just pushed him in that direction).
I don't think my heart will recover if he files. I think that will be the end for me.
Last edited by Cadet; 04/04/1512:43 AM.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Sounds like you did a lot of pursuing in that convo when he clearly did not take well to it. And you ran after him? And then you hugged him? And then you called him after you got home? And then he ended the conversation?
Would that be known as a backslide? Oh well, happens to me too. There is always tomorrow and a chance to do better.
As Wonka tells me often, I need to drink up the tasty STFU juice. My humble suggestion is to GAL, PMA and just leave him alone. He clearly knows how you feel so leave it at that.
I know this hurts so much, and you are feeling desperate but hang in there. Keep DBing. Your heart will recover with him or without him. You are a whole person on your own. You don't need him, you may very well want him, but you can do this either way.
Heavy D - 10+ months of no pursuit, no going after answers and STFU. I think most familiar with my sitch would agree that mine has been one of the darkest here - NC actually means NC. H left few clues from the beginning. There comes a time when you need more information in order to move forward.
Cadet - I appreciate your attempt to keep order on the forums by adding the link to my old thread. Along with a minor name change I actually made a conscious decision to try to step away from my old threads as someone I know is reading these forums. Those who want to know more about my sitch can figure it out using the basic search function. Can you please remove the link?
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
I am an expert at being stalked on forums. Let me know if there is anything else you would like me to do to help that part out. You can send me a private message by notifying on this post.
Heavy D - 10+ months of no pursuit, no going after answers and STFU. I think most familiar with my sitch would agree that mine has been one of the darkest here - NC actually means NC. H left few clues from the beginning. There comes a time when you need more information in order to move forward.
Makes sense. I can see how getting clear rejection and dismissal signs can help overcoming clinging denial and help deal with reality, striving towards acceptance. That's the one thing about going dark- it gives you a lot of time to project and imagine fictitious things about what's going through your WAS's head. Sometimes it helps to see the person they really are, and how they really feel. And...if it helps reach detachment, maybe that will be the best strategic step as well.
Gan- take care and thanks for posting on my thread. I didn't realize I was so negative before. I truly consider myself a very positive person. But I guess this road would make even Ned Flanders utter a "phooey" once or twice.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
HD - Gan has had the least amount of contact with her H during her seperation - I can think of only maybe two others who have been as NC as she has. Yes, there is a time to STFU, and I'm sure she applied it to her meeting as well as several times through her NC. But, some times there is a time when you don't STFU and I think this time was appropriate.
Gan followed her heart, and I applaud her for that.
Sometimes we have to go against the grain to get what we need, to be ok with at the end of it all.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
Yeah, that would be me, haven't clapped eyes on the man since 2 September 14 or the 22 October, before that sometime in July. He seems to have only noticed the nc by October, which was 10months.
There is nothing else. I do tend to avoid places I have a fair idea he might be. The gossips tell me he's beating the bushes pretty hard, for Info.
Bit odd he doesn't want the truth, but then it's easier to justify if you don't have the truth and make me whole problem, but then he's in an a, which he chose willingly over me.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
Gan, I'm glad you left that pesky ole sea monster in the abyss, and are back to be-ing.
As you know, I'm in the group of long time NC. I've not actually seen H since August '14, and only spoken once by phone for 20 minutes in the last six months. I can certainly understand the need for answers in our kind of scenario.
Of course the answer may not be what we want to hear. Your choice reminds me of advice Miman posted from his DB coach on this thread. Struck a chord with me anyway.
What I would say to you (and I say to myself) is this is just a point where we are at in our sitches. You have the 'now' answer. Whether that answer will be the same in 3,6, 9 months is unknown. And only you can decide what you want to do.
For me, I feel a slow erosion of love and respect for my H. And his recent/current actions show me that he is still foggy, which doesn't give me much hope for my sitch in the short term. Whether he and I could come back from that, I don't know. Do I want to? I don't know. Sometimes I wonder why I am still here doing this? Is it just a dogged, "well I've started this so I'll finish....."
Lots of uncertainty. And I do think your H's answers still sound pretty confused. But I do think the answer is to keep on with that direction of travel - forwards. And in time, things will become clearer.
We all wrestle with the sea monster from time to time, which is painful. But also painfully useful and it does move us forward.
Have a good weekend Gan xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
