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A Message from Michele
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Thanks MCS for your heartfelt post. Toots, to try and respond to your question about the process, I think it is usually slow. Every person is different, of course. As I said, that list is in no special order, however, I do believe consequences for the wayward spouse is first. B/c without consequences, he/she continues blazing their trail of destruction and blaming the LBS.

I am not saying the LBS should appoint themselves as the executioner for consequences for the wayward spouse, but I will say the LBS can pull the plug on compromising those things they refer as doing "as a family" after the bomb has been dropped. I am not in agreement with those actions at all b/c it prolongs the process. There could be a few circumstances that are difficult to avoid, but I'm referring to these betrayed spouses who choose to continue the "togetherness" in family activities. Any LBS who mistakenly thinks they are showing the wayward what they are missing, is going about it all wrong, IMO. A WS will not miss what is still provided. See what I mean? That's just one example.

Another example is the LBS refusing to be the wayward spouse's BFF. B/c being their friend works just fine for WS. Especially the WW.

The LBH should stop being her errand boy, babysitter, cook and housekeeper, etc., trying to "help" lighten her burden, thinking he is doing 180's that are working. Hey, those actions may be 180's from his norm, but they are not the type of 180's that are effective with a wayward! This is another major difference in a WAW and wayward wife. Those acts of kindness, let's say, might be appreciated by a WAW who is not involved in wayward activity or has a wayward heart. Not so, with a wayward! I hope to get that message across about effective 180's from the betrayed H.

I could go on for pages, but the idea is to immediately pull out and detach emotionally, and stop being available for any needs the wayward has. The sooner the LBS visibly shows the WS this doesn't work, the quicker the WS will begin having consequences as a result to his/her decisions. And they may not accept that the consequences are due to their own decisions, in fact, I would say they won't at first. Women especially, will blame the LBS for everything that doesn't go peachy-keen for her. Her anger increases. She reacts from that anger. Sadly, men seem terrified of the WW's anger, which just baffles me. Let her feel the anger! Let her stew, through a fit, cry, the whole bit........just don't stand around to watch.

The fantasy has to collaspe, and it takes troubles to implode the fantasy. The LBS has to detach from it, and not try to soothe or rescue. I believe, and MWD says in one of her books, that the WAS has to suffer some type of loss. By that, I mean that particular "sting" that really hits the WS where it hurts worst. For me, it was that moment I knew it was all on me and was the result of my own wrong behavior. Don't misunderstand and think everything fell into place afterwards. It didn't! That particular "loss" or reality, was necessary to wake me up. It is like throwing freezing cold water in the face of one who is sleeping. That experience for the wayward S may even be comparable to the LBS getting the bomb, which awaken them, but it doesn't mean they automatically know what to do. In some instances, they make more mistakes by reacting to it.

It is still easy for the WS to want to deny full responsibility. I'm sure it varies in people's experiences. Accepting full responsibility without excuses, and without pointing fingers at the LBS, and/or the problems in the MR, is huge. It's hard! It doesn't come easy, or fast. Once accepted, then how does the WS deal with the results? Well, that's another part of the process.

Making conscious choices, based on the right thing to do and not out of sheer emotions, has to come from the WS. Depending on how messed up they may be mentally/emotionally, they may turn to someone (or some source) for advice. Problem is, who/what will be that source. So, this is a critical time. For me, I sought advice from a forum called Divorce Busting, which I thank God every day. It could have been the wrong people giving me bad advice.

The WS has to freely make a choice to turn and head in the right direction. If they try to keep one foot in an A and one foot in the M, it won't work in favor of the M. Again, I was fortunate to get the right information for what I would have to do, which was to end all contact, forever, with OM. Many WS do not have that guidance and their heads are not clear enough to "just know" it, although you would think anyone in their right mind would. Even with the fog lifted, there is still an amount of emotional confusion. The inclination is to follow the feelings, which of course, are very fickle.

Making the decision to turn back in the right direction does not automatically clear all those negative feelings in the heart of the WS. For me, it took a long time before I could truthfully say I no longer had the resentment, disrespect, rebellious attitude, etc. That was a real process in itself.

For a lot of people, our moral/religious foundation may play a large part in getting our heart set right. For those who do not have high standards as their primary foundation, I simply would not know what to tell you. B/c for me, personally, it was as much a spiritual issue for me, as it was a marital issue. God, family, and church had been my life. I could not have a good relationship with God when I held these wrong feelings in my heart. It was an absolute necessity for me to have that peace with my God, in order to make it through. For me, that trumped everything else. I realize this is not how everyone believes, it was just my own. That had to come first, in order to have an authentic MR with my H. Make sense?

So, I prayed, I sought counsel, I read, and prayed even more. I would think, "Okay, I've got this", but then realize those roots of bitterness were still there....and I had to keep chopping away until it was gone. Sorry, of this sounds dramatic. It was, for me. Just sharing my personal struggles.

Forgiving my LBH for everything in the past, and letting it go........wow! Was that hard to do! May sound self-righteous to the ears of you who have betrayed, but it is really about all that ANGER in the WW's heart (I would think probably the WH, too). To stop blaming him and forgive him, I am ashamed to say, took me a long time. But when I finally went to him with a remorseful heart for all the pain I CAUSED HIM, then I was able to let it go. It is a two-way street in finding peace.

Actually, I went through the withdrawals and months of depression before I went to him iwith a remorseful heart to ask his forgiveness and let go of my wrong feelings I had clung to for years and years. I am not saying that is the correct order of things, but I doubt I would have made that step as long as OM was floating around in my head.

The sooner the WW can seek forgiveness and set her H free of the blame for everything, the easier it is to cooperate in piecing the M back together. Strangely enough, in my case, it was not the LBS receiving the information about transparency, etc. He did not have the tools I was getting from the DB folks. I did ask him to go with me to get MC to help us, and he refused. But that was my stitch, and doesn't mean everyone's the same. Therefore, based on the guidance I was receiving on the board, this old WW followed the advice about the NC, and transparency. I believe it was through my transparency, and the fact my H was checking to verify (b/c that is part of it), he was able to establish the beginning of new trust in me. I took accountability by the horns, so to speak. It is through my experience and what I have observed in others over the years, that I strongly believe that the accountability is for her sake as much as for his, if not more. Otherwise, it would just be too easy to slide back into contacting the AP. The WW's willpower, alone, may not hold, but knowing she is willingly showing her computer and phone activity, etc. to her H, whenever he wants to look......sure helps her hold the line, IMO.

Yikes! I better close this post b/c of length.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Therefore, based on the guidance I was receiving on the board, this old WW followed the advice about the NC, and transparency. I believe it was through my transparency, and the fact my H was checking to verify (b/c that is part of it), he was able to establish the beginning of new trust in me. I took accountability by the horns, so to speak. It is through my experience and what I have observed in others over the years, that I strongly believe that the accountability is for her sake as much as for his, if not more. Otherwise, it would just be too easy to slide back into contacting the AP. The WW's willpower, alone, may not hold, but knowing she is willingly showing her computer and phone activity, etc. to her H, whenever he wants to look......sure helps her hold the line, IMO.




Yeah, it's amazing, when you have that Weight Watchers weigh-in the next day, it's much easier to avoid the late-nite hot fudge sundae!!! Accountability.

Great (and heartfelt) post, Sandi.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Starsky,

Originally Posted By: Starsky309


Yeah, it's amazing, when you have that Weight Watchers weigh-in the next day, it's much easier to avoid the late-nite hot fudge sundae!!! Accountability.
Starsky


Not me. I would have plowed through that delicious sundae!! Accountability be damned! grin

Sandi,

Thank you for articulating the main point for LBHs whose WAW is in an A: stop being such a wet noodle and grab the bull by the horns from the get-go. It starts with dropping the rabid FEAR in you. Your WAW is a paper tigeress.

In summary, the action list should be something like this upon arriving at the DB forum in short order:

1-Keep DB to yourself and hide the DR book. You don't give away the playbook to the opponent. ERASE all browsing history on your computer.
2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse.
3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script.
4-Stop sharing the same MBR with your WAW. You are not willing to share her with another man. Tell WAW that "you have decided that you prefer she sleep in another room."
5-Sex? Forget it. It all stops right now. Same as above.
6-DO NOT have convos with WAW about the OM. You are not her gay boyfriend. You are her H. Do not acknowledge or speak about the OM at all.
7- Move all of your FINANCIAL assets into a new banking account with just your name on it (no more joint $$ with WAW) and cancel joint credit cards. Be sure to inform bank officers that your WAW is not to get a loan or open a card with your name ...they must call you first to alert of this.
8-Cut off all joint cell phone plans (you are not financing W's affair by paying for her smartphone to continue conducting her A on the family's money)
9-Only pay expenses related to children (if you have any) and other praticalities
10-Consult with a Lawyer to know your rights. Go in for an informational meeting with 3 to 4 attorneys. Keep it to yourself. Knowledge is power.
11-Cancel all MC sessions. It is ineffective as long as your WAW is in an A and just going there for appearance's sake to claim that "they tried." Pshaw!
12-Don't drive or pick her up from the airport. She can figure this out herself.
12-Make your own GAL plans. Don't drop them if WAW cries to you that she needs you to "babysit" the kids or threatens you.
13-Stop going into an overdrive cleaning the house or doing the laundry. Makes you look like the gay housekeeper from La Cage aux Folles movie.



Last edited by Wonka; 03/27/15 07:56 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Wonka

9-Only pay expenses related to children (if you have any)

I'd like to add something to this that I did in my sitch, I told my W that any purchases for the kids or house needed my approval FIRST. Otherwise I would not be paying.


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Wonka - I think it can be very helpful for newcomers to see this initial plan of action. I might add it to the resources at the top of my thread.

sandi2- Again, wow. I've a question. In your sitch, did you ever leave your H or intended to? I'm asking because the WW of many LBH here have admitted to the affair and left the marital home. For them, it's not a matter of getting a little fulfillment on the side, but of giving up on their H and changing partner altogether. I wonder if it makes a difference in how we should approach the sitches or if it's just splitting hair.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Originally Posted By: Mozza
Wonka - I think it can be very helpful for newcomers to see this initial plan of action. I might add it to the resources at the top of my thread.

sandi2- Again, wow. I've a question. In your sitch, did you ever leave your H or intended to? I'm asking because the WW of many LBH here have admitted to the affair and left the marital home. For them, it's not a matter of getting a little fulfillment on the side, but of giving up on their H and changing partner altogether. I wonder if it makes a difference in how we should approach the sitches or if it's just splitting hair.


Yes, Mozza, I agree. What does the LBH do when WW leaves, files for divorce, and pursues R with OM? Starsky, in particular, talks of fighting for his W and R. How can one do that when the W is no longer there, or interested?


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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Originally Posted By: Kramer
Originally Posted By: Mozza
Wonka - I think it can be very helpful for newcomers to see this initial plan of action. I might add it to the resources at the top of my thread.

sandi2- Again, wow. I've a question. In your sitch, did you ever leave your H or intended to? I'm asking because the WW of many LBH here have admitted to the affair and left the marital home. For them, it's not a matter of getting a little fulfillment on the side, but of giving up on their H and changing partner altogether. I wonder if it makes a difference in how we should approach the sitches or if it's just splitting hair.


Yes, Mozza, I agree. What does the LBH do when WW leaves, files for divorce, and pursues R with OM? Starsky, in particular, talks of fighting for his W and R. How can one do that when the W is no longer there, or interested?


Are you asking what steps to take if the WAW has already moved out of the marital house and is still actively involved with the OM, Kramer? Is this what you're asking here?

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Originally Posted By: Kramer
What does the LBH do when WW leaves, files for divorce, and pursues R with OM? Starsky, in particular, talks of fighting for his W and R. How can one do that when the W is no longer there, or interested?


To be clear, I almost always recommend fighting for the marriage EARLY -- for some pre-determined amount of time that you can stomach, post-BD (3-4 mos.?) Once there is an active legal divorce action, it would be very rare that I would recommend that someone "fight for" a wayward spouse.

A lot of it depends on "what do you know, when do you know it, and does SHE know that you know," so it can be more complicated than that, but generally speaking I advocate all of the strong moves (establish boundaries, firewall finances, fight for your marriage, aggressive affair-busting) be done EARLY and POWERFULLY. Over time, if the wayward spouse is still unrepentant and unwilling to end their affair, I'm more of a "RobX/let them go" guy.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Originally Posted By: Kramer
Originally Posted By: Mozza
Wonka - I think it can be very helpful for newcomers to see this initial plan of action. I might add it to the resources at the top of my thread.

sandi2- Again, wow. I've a question. In your sitch, did you ever leave your H or intended to? I'm asking because the WW of many LBH here have admitted to the affair and left the marital home. For them, it's not a matter of getting a little fulfillment on the side, but of giving up on their H and changing partner altogether. I wonder if it makes a difference in how we should approach the sitches or if it's just splitting hair.


Yes, Mozza, I agree. What does the LBH do when WW leaves, files for divorce, and pursues R with OM? Starsky, in particular, talks of fighting for his W and R. How can one do that when the W is no longer there, or interested?


Are you asking what steps to take if the WAW has already moved out of the marital house and is still actively involved with the OM, Kramer? Is this what you're asking here?



Yes, that is exactly what I am asking.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 250
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Originally Posted By: Kramer
What does the LBH do when WW leaves, files for divorce, and pursues R with OM? Starsky, in particular, talks of fighting for his W and R. How can one do that when the W is no longer there, or interested?


To be clear, I almost always recommend fighting for the marriage EARLY -- for some pre-determined amount of time that you can stomach, post-BD (3-4 mos.?) Once there is an active legal divorce action, it would be very rare that I would recommend that someone "fight for" a wayward spouse.

A lot of it depends on "what do you know, when do you know it, and does SHE know that you know," so it can be more complicated than that, but generally speaking I advocate all of the strong moves (establish boundaries, firewall finances, fight for your marriage, aggressive affair-busting) be done EARLY and POWERFULLY. Over time, if the wayward spouse is still unrepentant and unwilling to end their affair, I'm more of a "RobX/let them go" guy.


Starsky


Well, I certainly did the aggressive affair busting early on. I sent an email to OM and W the night that I found out, and informed all of the adult children as well. This INFURIATED W and she said that there is no way she could ever get over the embarrassment, so she actively pursued divorce. I suspect that the REAL reason for quick divorce is to pursue R with OM, but it let's her save face by blaming me for exposing A and "embarrassing" her. Our "children" are all over 18, and are not happy with her choices.


Me M51
WW F46
T 17 yrs
M 16 yrs
9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17
8 grandchildren
ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14
I discover PA 12/31/14
She files D: 1/9/15
She moves out 3/2/15
D papers served 3/18/15
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