The first thread was great, very helpful to me and Iím sure others. Is it possible to continue with some of the next steps?
I read a post of yours in another thread (page 2 of Miman2) about when the WW comes back, how to tell if itís just a temperature check or genuine, some responses to some of her statements ("I would have to feel I would not be hurt again, and considering everything, I don't know that I can take that risk yet").
Can you re-post that here or expand on it?
Me:43, WW:45 2 Kids: 21,22 Married: 23 Years Bomb: 01/2015 Separate Bedrooms: 02/2015 She left: 03/2015
Yes, I would LOVE to see Sandi expound upon a "Letting Them Back Too Easy?" theme, from her unique FWW perspective. That would be GOLD.
Agreed. In 2009, my WAW cheated on me and when she confessed, I forgave her on the spot (when she asked if I forgave her I said yes immediately, no hesitation). We didn't do any systematic work, apart from the honeymoon period after R. Five years later, she did the same thing and now we're heading to a D. Letting them back too easy feels good on the moment, but doesn't seem to provide long lasting results.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
The next steps.......yikes. Well, let me first point out again that this is advice for the LBH who has a wayward wife.
Miman2 had asked me to advise him and it was a little difficult b/c of the ground I was trying to cover. I will tell anyone here that there are no quick methods or sure fire steps to take that guarantees to save your M. People say they know, but then they want to jump right into how to proceed with reconciliation.
I didn't feel that I did a very good job with that post, b/c you just can't cover everything at once. I will copy & paste, and hope I don't make too big of a mess. (I did correct a couple of misspelled words.)
So I think she stopped by the apartment without me knowing. I noticed this morning that some things were missing. Should I call/txt her and ask her about it or no because I should be detaching??
Reply Post from Sandi:
No, b/c you should have already been detaching. Are you sure you understand about detaching?
I normally read one's thread before giving advice, so what I will say is the advice I would give a H who had a wayward W.
Quote: It's been one month since I've seen her. Still no contact about her coming to get some stuff. What I've been wondering is how do I handle it if she says she misses me, I know the general idea is we have to wait until they are 100% committed to working on the R or M but how do I best transition that? Or do I just test to see if she's even interested in working on stuff?
Let's break this down a bit, b/c none of this is going to happen all at the same time.
If she should make contact with you, she will probably use some excuse as being the basis of her contact. In the conversation, she may just say something about missing you. You want to know how you should respond, right? My suggestion is that you don't make an instant reply, b/c this is no big "sign" that she's having second thought or anything. It is more like her temp checking you to see that you are still attached. So what do you normally say when someone makes a statement you find very hard to believe. That is kind of the attitude you need at this particular time, that you know she is full of BS. You don't say it, but you know that's what she is doing.
I doubt you will follow my advice, but you should say, "Really!" (as if you know she's lying) "Surprisingly, I have made it much better than I would have thought".
Do you know why you tell a WW this? So she will think you are moving on........and she was the one to set you free! Even though she may respond in such a way that sounds differently, that will be what she is thinking. She has made you a free agent. This train of thought will get her focus on you a lot more than you could imagine! Do not sound like some pitiful victim that has been booted out of his M. Sound like a guy who is single and is discovering it's not too bad!
I am not sure if I understand the second part of that first question. The waiting till they are ready to commit to the M is referring to reconciliation. It is unlikely she will call out of the blue, saying she wants to save the M. However, if that should happen, do not jump at the chance to tell her, "Yes, of course!". You stall, and say something like, "I would like to believe you, however, things aren't that simple now". Then if she asks what you mean, you say, "I would have to feel I would not be hurt again, and considering everything, I don't know that I can take that risk yet". (Side note: You can even practice saying these things to yourself, if it will give you more confidence.)
By this point in the contact, you may be able to decide if she's temp checking or if she's genuine. I can assure you that if you seem excited about the possibilities of getting back together, it will turn her away. If there was ever a time to act hard to get, it would be at this time. She has to really want you back.......and not b/c she saw how tough life can be, or b/c OM rejected her, or b/c having you as plan B is safe. You want her back b/c she desires no man but you! If you agree to take her back under any other conditions, it will not be the M you want.
You are waiting to hear her ask what would it take. That is the time to tell her the conditions, and don't tell her before she asks. The conditions should be that she writes a letter to OM, stating that she made a terrible mistake by ending her R with you, and that she does not love OM and never wants to have contact with him again. She tells him she loves you and wants to work on her M. She writes this in her handwriting, no email or text, not even typed out. She gives it to you to read before mailing it. YOU mail the letter, not her.
She agrees to your transparency plan, not hers. She agrees to get tested for any STD, with you going with her to the doctor. She agrees to attend MC sessions with the therapist you choose.
I am probably leaving something out, but you get the general idea. There is a lot to consider when reconciling, or you will have a repeat experience in all probability.
A few things to look for, which are essential. One, is she remorseful? If not, don't waste your time. Does she get an attitude about any of the above? Has she apologized? How willing is she to do the necessary work? If she balks, accuses you of controlling, starts giving you her conditions of coming back, tells you that you'll just have to trust her, or any excuse for not fully cooperating with everything you want........then she was not really ready.
See what I mean? There is more involved than her simply missing you. And btw, it may take a long time for her to really miss you. Know the difference here, missing you is one thing........willing to do what is necessary to save the M is quite another!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi- just wanted to add my 2 cents from a LBH perspective on one of the biggest lessons I learned throughout my sitch.
My 'Mr Nice Guy' personality didn't help, but when I look back on my interactions with WAW, I'm ashamed at how much I tried to avoid rocking the boat (because I was afraid of the potential outcome). Easy to say, hard to do, but taking a strong, confident stance early on is key. Far too often, I gave W the benefit of the doubt or only heard what I wanted to hear. I bit on every worm she threw into the water, as opposed to standing up for myself and what I need/want in a R. I think all of that has only prolonged my sitch and muddied the waters between us.
When I finally got to a place where I could take back that power from WAW felt great and made me feel so much better about myself.
The last great effort the XW and I made was in November. We were doing really well and in that time she wrote me a Anniversary card. In it she wrote about how much she has felt we both changed and how we were doing great together and how we could make it through anything that came our way. I took her words as the truth and I still think she meant every word of it. She seemed to be focusing on "usď and seeing things the way I saw them, not perfect but on our way.
We even had talks about us and being better and feeling better together. She even talked about being excited for the holidays and how she had not felt that way for a long time.
The last time she validated that we could work through any issues was a couple of days before we listed our house for sale. She expressed that she was nervous that she was forcing me to sell the house. I told her she wasn't, but asked why she brought it up. She explained that she would feel bad if something happened and we didn't work out. I asked if she felt there was any reason we wouldn't work out and she said no.
I truly believed every word she said or wrote to me, and I still believe she meant it.
Two weeks after the house talk she said she was done trying and wanted a D. She said nothing has changed and the holidays sucked and she just wanted a D.
I suspect (now) that the contact with the OM started again during this time. They work at the same place and she started back to work then also.
So Sandi my question is were these feelings she expressed to me true and the addiction to the OM changed her viewpoint or was she just keeping me as plan B for a while? Or is there another explanation or any way of knowing?
I feel she was being genuine but the OM made her change her behavior again like you described earlier in the previous thread. She got a taste of her drug and became addicted again.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15