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Awesome, awesome thread, Sandi. Much-needed too, in my opinion.

There are some things in life that fall (at least in my idealistic/altruistic mind) under the "Things That Ought Not to Be So" category. A lot of basic male-female human dynamics fall into that file it seems. wink

I have long said on this forum that people would be very wise to study the cr*p out of these basic relationship and interpersonal dynamics, and LEARN. So much time and energy seems to get wasted on some basic version of "But it shouldn't BE that way!" angst on the part of the betrayed spouse, instead of just snapping into action and actually USING these dynamics IN THEIR OWN FAVOR.

Bottom line, supplication isn't attractive and it doesn't work. Men AND women both tend to value most that which is difficult to obtain.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Wow Sandi2 let me just tell you how great this is to read. Thank you very much! I have been struggling for the past week to figure out how to proceed in my sitch and this address a lot of what I have been struggling with. I really wish I had read this when I first came here, that being said I wish I had come here and found DBing a lot earlier on in my sitch. But I also believe I wasn't ready to read or hear some of the things both here and what you have commented on in my sitch any earlier then I did (if that makes any sense). Thank you again!


M:34 W:34
D:8 D:5
M:10 T:15
BD: 10/10/14 D filed: 10/21/14
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Hi - My wife has asked for a divorce, she states she is no longer wants to be married to me. We have been married for 23 years, and have two kids. Long story short, I was arrested, went to court, there is a temp custody order, i mean this is horrible. Can divorce busting help?

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Mozza, sorry that I am just now getting back to your question.

Quote:
The reason I'm still wondering relates to your comment about the moral character of the W. My W cheated on me in 2009 with another sweet talking colleague. She kept it a secret and told me that she would leave me because we were incompatible or something to that effect. As she told me, she slept with him twice during a business trip. She said at the time that she saw the light and confessed her A to me, telling me that she would stay if I forgave her, which I did on the spot. We moved on but little changed in our couple past the first couple of months.

So fast forward to 2014 and, once again, we're incompatible, she needs to be alone, to find herself, etc. Our M is a disappointment because it only delivers half-emotions. The original romance is gone and we fight too much. Turns out there's another OM, a colleague again.

So, is she a WW who lost her morals or is she a serial cheater? Is it possible that those were two exceptions? If she's a serial cheater in your opinion, should I just cut my losses and hope that she'll never come back?


I don't wish to make this any more complicated that it already may be. Psychologists would probably break it down into more complex categories, IDK. But trying to keep basically to where I started, I believe it is what's in the heart before an A ever happens. Whatever moral and spiritual/religious foundation they received while their character was being molded in childhood to adulthood, IMHO (and I am certainly no expert), would have a great influence on those type of decisions in life. It does not always prevent a person from being wayward, b/c it is an act of volition. People can change (either direction) and do not always adhere to their parents or even their own previous belief system. And since we know a WW is acting from emotions, there will be a clash between what she knows in her heart is right & wrong with what she is desiring/feeling.

I went online to copy the definition of the word "wayward" and this is what it gave:

Difficult to control or predict because of unusual or perverse behavior. synonyms: willful, headstrong, stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, perverse, contrary, disobedient, insubordinate, undisciplined

The Bible refers to a the "strange woman," as the King James Version calls her. Other translations refer to this immoral woman as a "seductress," "adulteress," "wayward wife," "loose woman."

Quote:
So, is she a WW who lost her morals or is she a serial cheater?


IMO, it is not an issue of loosing but of choosing. We should make our decisions based on what we know is right & wrong, and not on how we feel. I don't know your W's moral character, but I would guess she knows it is not right to be in a M and be involved with another man. She allowed her emotions to lead her astray, instead of doing what she knew to be right. She was not innocent. She wanted something strong enough to put her M and family at risk to have it, although it was wrong in several areas of moral character. B/c she chooses to do what she knows is immorally wrong for a married woman, she becomes wayward in her thinking, emotions, and behavior.

A person can also choose to come back from that state of being wayward and begin acting on what they know is the right thing to do. Apparently, that is what your W chose to do after her A in 2009. However, I can't remember the details, so I don't know if she chose to simply do the right thing, or if there was another motivation. Make sense? In other words, some people may appear to walk the walk but their heart is not feeling it.

Then your W has another A only five years later. As I said, I don't know her moral character and can only tell by her actions that she is either giving over to her wayward desires and allowing those feelings to be in charge of her decisions in spite of what she knows to be morally wrong....or else she has never had strong moral character which is now evident by her choices. To say it bluntly, some people just don't care.

I believe we choose to have moral character. It helps tremendously to have adults who are our models and try earnestly to pass forward, but ultimately, it is up to each of us.

All I can say is according to her actions, she is definitely a wayward wife at this time. Would she ever make changes and be faithful for the duration of her life? IDK. She's had two A's in five years while M. I, personally, see it as a high risk when there has been more than one A.

You are the one who has to decide if you believe she would ever stay faithful and if you could take that risk again. Could you ever completely trust her again? ((Mozza))

Sorry for such a lengthy answer.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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^^bump^^


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Thank you so much for your wisdom, Sandi.


M- 29 EX F-27
T- 10 E- 2 wedding booked&paid for sept/2015
D3, S2
BD- NOV 2014
He moved out to his parents FEB 2015
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Thanks Sandi! Regarding me allowing the wife to come pick up things from our place is that being too friendly and not tough love enough?? Or should I allow it to try and gauge where she is in her mind now?


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T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
"I want to have cats back" 5/4/15
Served D papers 5/8/15
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Hi Miman, I am not familiar with your stitch. I will read it as soon as I can. Your W has a right to all of her personal things. The household items should be agreed upon, if the two of you are living in separate houses.

I suggest you have something planned ahead to keep you busy while she's there, maybe even do something in another room. Don't shut the door, and don't act cold/mean/angry. Just do something other than stand around watching her and acting as if you care.

She may be curious and ask questions while she is there, so give vague answers, but don't lie about anything. Answer with short sentences, rather than rambling on & on.

Hey, you are busy.....preoccupied, and really aren't all that interested in what she's doing.

As for carrying heavy things out to her car, sure you can do it. You aren't suppose to be jerk. Just don't trip over your own feet by trying so hard to be attentive & helpful. Make sense?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks for the reply and the suggestions sandi,

that's basically how i was feeling about what to do when she visits

she already did a quick grab of personal items about 2 weeks ago. Now she's coming back to grab cookware for her new apt and visit the cats. she texted last thursday around midnight asking if i was awake, i called her friday and we talked a bit. but basically she was checking to see if the cats were okay, if i was okay and if she could grab pots and pans.

She already told me she didn't want any furniture, so i suppose letting her have some cookware isn't too out of reason. It's hard to know when to use the tough love approach vs. the kind and happy approach with the Wayward Spouse.


Me:33 W:34
T:13 M:8.5
D mentioned & S 2/13/15
"We can never get back together" 4/2/15
Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15
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This is an incredibly insightful thread. I suppose leaving me a note asking me to take out the garbage is "temperature checking".

RAI


Me 48 XW 45
lots o' kids
D April 2017
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