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Thanks for posting details of the Etaoin thread. Had a proper read today - wow, it was very interesting! I'm a bit gutted that he hasn't finished telling his story yet. I'm keen to read the next bit about getting to self awareness.

One thing I picked up was that it almost didn't seem to matter what his LBS was doing, the A had to run it's course and fail. I'll keep an eye out for the final part.


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Originally Posted By: Toots
Thanks for posting details of the Etaoin thread. Had a proper read today - wow, it was very interesting! I'm a bit gutted that he hasn't finished telling his story yet. I'm keen to read the next bit about getting to self awareness.

One thing I picked up was that it almost didn't seem to matter what his LBS was doing, the A had to run it's course and fail. I'll keep an eye out for the final part.


No it doesn't matter what the LBS does. However if the "world" who is talking to the WAS and the "world" in general thinks that LBS is so attractive, so fine, and has so much going on for themselves, the WAS can regain interest and attraction.

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RE EXPOSURE...

Originally Posted By: Ontheup
Hey Fade

No I wont be lying if anyone asks me why but the MB approach does seem a bit extreme. To me it just adds fuel to the fire. Everyone is going to find out at some point anyway.


I think it's VERY extreme. Short of pressing adultery charges (one wonders why they don't also suggest that), there's nothing they do not promote.

SHAMING is key here, and that is Not healthy. I can't see a noble streak in there at all. I believe it always always looks vindictive on the LBS's part.

And here's the ironic truth:

Exposure does NOT make the LBS look like the sympathetic victim, in the end.

An example from real life. I am the administrator for my HS class FB page. We keep each other informed about our lives and all Reunion information is shared there. It has 400+ classmates on it.

A few years back a STBXW posted something about her H (a classmate) and OW (also a classmate). I had not seen it as I'm not that active on FB...

Several people contacted me to ask me to delete the message. (Note: Every single person who mentioned it, asked me to delete it).

It was a message from the LBW who wrote "Don't let OW (Named) steal your h, like she stole mine last year"... No one had commented or "liked" it or said a thing, yet enough had seen it to alert me. I deleted it.

NOT ONE of the people who saw it and commented to ME, expressed sympathy for the wife.


Everyone felt she should not have aired her dirty laundry, let alone on our class FB page.

A few called her crazy, others said "She has problems", and one person even said "no wonder h left her" (OUCH! That hurt just to read.)

I did not detect anyone being angry or shocked or disappointed in the classmates having the affair. I do wonder if we'd just learned of it on our own, maybe we'd have felt some sympathy towards the LBW or maybe some judgement about the classmates...but I'll never know. Presumably,

The goal of the LBW's exposure was either to SHAME her H & OW

AND OR to end the affair.

But neither thing happened, and SHE is worse off than before.

(Plus, it's not like we would not have figured out the affair when we saw them together anyhow. Then, I might have said something to the OW b/c she's a friend of mine.)

I know some men and women who have come back from affairs. I've seen about 8 marriages survive affairs (not one night stands but actual affairs of some duration).

Only one affair then involved expousre, but that m ended anyhow, about 4 years later. I don't think there was much joy in that home with the pseudo reconciliation either.

Turns out that shame is a turn off for women...in that case I honestly believe the affair would have ended anyhow and maybe they could have recovered.

According to the wife, (who I'm sure is biased, but still), it was the H's behavior and his "humiliating" her, that eventually got her to leave for good.

She regrets NOT the affair, but the "4 wasted years of a fake marriage" and

Again, Ouch.


Both my parents already know, her work colleagues must have an idea and her family will no doubt be wondering. Why do I need to drop a bomb in there an hurt everyone.


Indeed, WHY? What possible advantage TO YOU, is there? I understand the urge to damage her. It's not noble, but it is understandable.

And I am not suggesting you lie or cover for her.
But why would YOU be the party to expose her A behavior? Isn't it just, beneath you?

Have you read the piece in Div Busting books that advise against exposure? IT's in there. So my real question is, if you have read it, why are you still asking about it?

I mean, what's the thing you are not clear on? You are on a Div Bsuting site asking us why you should adhere to the Div Busting program. I'm thinking, b/c we are not about shaming here. We are about restoring marriages and getting them thru a crisis period...shame plays no part in a healthy marriage. Feeling remorse is not the same thing and that is also something that we cannot cause in someone else...do you get that?

While there are many good, differing opinions on which approaches to take,

SOME pieces of these approaches are mutually exclusive
and to me, this is a big one that is not to be mixed with other methods.

I still don't know why MB doesn't advocate carving a scarlet letter. I believe they DO advocate pressing adultery as grounds for divorce in the relevant states.

I ponder that, for the following reasons:

Adultery claims do NOT affect child support

OR custody (unless other factors are present)

and it does not affect property settlements.

So tell me, what the heck is the reason for pressing this matter, if Not to shame the person? How healthy a goal, how noble a purpose - is that?
[b
So if restoring a marriage is the goal, then the purpose of exposure still escapes me....[/b]

But that's not to say I don't understand the urge. By God, I surely do...

Im pretty sure my wife would hate me forever if I did that. As it stands I want to remain civil at the least as we have D8. As far as getting back together I'm not really sure I want to anyway. Think it is more my ego.



Bingo...you are onto something valuable here.

Affairs sting like he11. SOME men can have affairs that "mean nothing" or mean very little about the marriage or wife.

SOME men have affairs that mean both parties in the m need to step it up a lot.

Why is it that when women have affairs, divorce is more likely? Is it b/c men just cannot forgive as well, or their egos are more fragile or society lets them get away with more?

OR is it b/c the affairs that wives have, mean more?

Most women who have affairs, your w included, feel at least mostly justified.

I almost had an Affair in year 9 of our m. At the time, I can honestly say h was so busy in his residency and work that I and our m were not priorities to him. Yes, I was very neglected. Rather than continuing to justify an EA which almost turned into a PA now, let me just sum it up...

I felt justified. I rationalized it very well. And yet, I still felt quite torn. After all, h wasn't at a bar drinking. We were both military (I joined b/c HE owed them for medical school) and I was being sent to a war zone, not him. I'm sure at some deep level that I wasn't fully aware of at that time, I might have resented him for that too.

I imagined the kids crying if I told them about a possible OM and a divorce and I could imagine my h doing that too. Those images killed me.

I sought counseling from a chaplain (surprisingly helpful) and a shrink (mediocre).

I ended the relationship which took some effort due to work related times. (I actually told my paralegal that I was "too attracted to OM" and she assisted me in creating distance between us til combat demands got him transferred).

My h never learned of it. If he had - and IF he had tried to shame me with it,

back then I suspect that my rationalizations and justifications would have ratcheted up up and away! I'd have likely filed for divorce.

Seriously. I would have felt cornered and trapped. I mean, IF HE tried to shame me I would have felt the need to defend myself.

(Remember that the more we challenge someone, the more we force them to defend their choices, instead of honestly assessing them).

OTOH, if he'd learned of it and tried to accommodate me more, increasing efforts in the marriage, that would have been good. But I shared with him how lonely I felt inside the marriage and we did some good work on our r, then.

I'm pretty sure this^^ is an example of how exposure would have eliminated any chance of reconciliation.

Read the book again if you still remain unconvinced. Your d will learn enough in time and when she's mature enough, and time has passed, your w will be better able to objectively see her behavior.

I am now able to review it more fairly. But back then I was in pain inside a very lonely marriage, I was convinced that passionate love was no longer feasible inside my marriage, which I craved...my needs had gone unmet for the years he'd been in medical school and we were in the 5th year of what seemed like an unrelentingly demanding life...so,

If you had thrown shame into that mixture, I'd have bolted for good. My suggestion for you is this:

BE the better man. Become a man only a fool would leave.


If your w is a fool, then in the long run, she's done you a favor.

Keep posting and keep on keeping on...
.

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 02/16/15 09:42 PM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Hey toots

It was a very good article and very informative. Basically spelled out what we already know, affairs run their course just as the first throws of passion in any new relationship do.
I think of it this way, that if someone had tried to drag me away from my wife when we first started seeing each other would I have listened?
No, no way because the feelings of love are so strong. WAS is no different. They are having those feelings of love. difference is its all secret so not a "normal" relationship. When those feelings start to die down and you start to see that other person warts and all then can it stand the test of time. That is the million dollar question. Odds say it wont. Will I still be around? Right now I cant answer that question. Time away from each other will only let me know that. I have felt better these last 2 days being away from her than I have for the last month. I still miss talking to her and miss D8 very much but I feel more relaxed without wife here. I haven't involved myself with her temperature checking for the last 2 days. I have only spoken and text when it has been about d8.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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Hey 25

This was written a few days ago after stumbling across MB. after thought I agree, the bomb method just doesn't seem to add up. Why would I want to shame my wife back to me? I wouldn't. Also she is a fighter. She will lash out when her back is against the wall.
He has nothing to lose as already divorced apart from relationship with his kids and family which from what I've read is already terrible as they already believe he is having an affair with my wife.
I've also read on another site of 2 suicides due to being outed for an affair. I don't want that on my conscience.
I don't think I need to force her down the rabbit hole any further. She has done a good enough job of that herself. This is for her to sort out. She has got herself into this situation. She is an intelligent woman and will know exactly what is at stake here. I will leave her to make her own choices about what she wants to do. She is the one who will have to live with the consequences of those choices.

My councillor asked me do I want my wife back and honestly I couldn't answer. Do I want my wife back of about 5 years ago? Absolutely. Has too much damage been done by both of us to each other in that time period? I don't know, maybe
The idea of wanting her back is very strong. The realities of that are that I wasn't and haven't been happy for along time either. day to day interaction we are still get on very well but the closeness we had left as we both stopped working on the marriage.
Being apart will give us both time to reflect. I'm working on me.
I have changed for the better these last 6 months. My wife even said last week why couldn't I have been this man years ago. These are permanent fixtures now. I took my life, my wife and D8 for granted. Never again will I make those mistakes.
Last 2 days have been easier and I have realised I will be ok.

Am I a man only a fool would leave? I think im getting there.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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I feel shame when I read the above article Ontheup as I am the person that ratted out W to her parents. And no matter where we look, we can find an article that says both sides. I told W's parents before I even knew about this place. But that link you provided about the cycle of an affair said that the family's pressure has something there but the spouse has none. The family wouldn't know unless someone told them. IDK.

I read your story every day. For inspiration for me, education, and I want to tell you, keep it up sir. Your work on you is fantastic and reminds me to go swimming again tomorrow morning smile


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"Has too much damage been done by both of us to each other in that time period? I don't know, maybe"

That's up to you. There can never be so much damage that things can't be healed.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Sounds like you are on the right path Ontheup. Thumps up for you. You'll make it.
Now I'll read this article/thread everyone is talking about. Bc I'm on the brink of family getting involved. Sensitive topic. Where can I find it?

Last edited by Complex; 02/16/15 11:05 PM.

Me 32 (German) Wife 28
T 3yrs M 2yrs
Moved to US for W
No kids
BD 6/2014
In house separation
Confirmed EA 1/2015
(ongoing since BD)
OM not ready
Real D talk started 1/27/15


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Has too much damage been done by both of us to each other in that time period? I don't know, maybe"

That's up to you. There can never be so much damage that things can't be healed.


Forgiveness is a learned skill. I never saw it growing up and I literally did not know HOW to do it, once I decided I wanted to. And forgiving her does not necessarily require you to reconcile, but to let go of the pain you are in now.

But it is something you must do, for yourself...when you grasp what that means, when you really get that holding onto your pain is not in your interest (or anyone's, and certainly not in your d's), then you'll know you have made more progress.

And if you do reconcile, it'll be a task for both of you. Among other things, she'll have to regain your trust AND you will have to regain hers.

Because why should she return to a marriage she wanted out of, unless there is is some promise of her needs being better met? And you had an "indiscretion" (great euphemism, btw) as well. While you don't seem to think they are similar, to her I am sure they are very similar. Regardless, I'm sure you'd agree that those things cannot happen again either.

You'll have to avoid ever throwing it in her face or holding it over her head, and she'll have to own some tough things to own.

In short, you'll have to do what the vows suggest, and go

"From this day forward", which means letting go of the past. I think those words were brilliantly inserted into my vows and they mean A LOT.

Give yourself a lot of time. You have it at the moment.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 374
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Ontheup Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Complex
Sounds like you are on the right path Ontheup. Thumps up for you. You'll make it.
Now I'll read this article/thread everyone is talking about. Bc I'm on the brink of family getting involved. Sensitive topic. Where can I find it?


Hey complex. Thanks for the support

The article i read is on surviving infidelity site under wayward section its called "coming up on 2 years NC" page 8 by a user called etaoin. Its a very difficult read as its written by a man who had a fairly long affair. I found it very informative. He goes into how it started why it continued and why it ended. Be warned it goes into full details. Im probably going to get told off for keep telling people about it on here smile but it is the best article i have seen yet about affairs.

As far as the telling the family and exposing it, that is on another site that i wont mention. Their train of thought is basically dropping a nuclear bomb on the affair and telling everyone there by shaming the AP's so much that they break it off. Not a route im going down. My parents know. They had guessed already and some of my work colleagues know. As far as my wifes friends and family not a single person knows. If my family guessed though then it wont take much for her family and friends to realise as well. Certainly if they continue and try and have a "normal" relationship then everyone will know. Again this is not my issue.


Me:40 W:35
D:8
T:13 M:10
WAW: 7/14
PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months
Moved out and moved on

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