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Originally Posted By: Crimson
Thanks, LITB....you are still my DB "hero" in terms of endurance! smile


I appreciate your kind words, Crimson. You aren't any different my friend. I'd say you probably surpass me in the endurance department. Glad to see that things have come full circle for you.


Me:45 ExW:48
M:04/97
3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
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HOw are things with you, LITB?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Originally Posted By: Crimson
Alright, so I guess I am checking in and throwing a question and looking for advice (nothing is wrong - just finding my way).

So we are 100% moved into the house together again - she got rid of her condo and we have moved her stuff back. In a certain sense (and I say this jokingly) I am also happy to reunite with my couches and chairs....and she even is returning with a new flat screen. That alone almost makes it ALL worth it! (Joking! If I can't laugh at this I will probably just keep crying -- and I do not want that!). smile We are continuing to learn how to live better lives together and move past our respective hurts from the past. She is till in IC for her childhood trauma - which is good, because the more I learn the more I realize that it played a SERIOUS role in he decline of our marriage.

Sex. That old thing again. We jumped back into the saddle again awhile ago so it is part of the relationship, but it is kind of "mechanical" in the sense that there is really no foreplay or build up per se.....it just kind of happens - usually in the morning before S wakes up for the day and we start moving a million MPH to get out of the house in time for work.

Since you went out on an intimacy limb here, I'll just have to pray that my h never reads this...okay, I know for ME and I've read that for many other women, morning is when our hormones and desire levels are lowest.

This especially stinks for my m b/c h's desire is highest in the EARLY morning and that has long been a challenge for us. I'm a night owl. He's a guy who has to get up hideously early for his work... (Obviously all of this can vary with people AND with phases and schedule changes which we all go through! SO Why not ask her?)

My point here is that our morning "rendezvous" are more aimed at keeping h happy, more than a mutually enjoyable experience for both of us. Is that what is happening in your situation?

Don't get me wrong. I love the intimacy, regardless of whether we both get our "cookies." We all make love for so many reasons Other than purely physical pleasure.

I recall being very depressed after my dad's death. I can't say I "enjoyed" sex for the sex -- but I very much wanted the closeness, and the comfort, and the companionship and tenderness of ML anyhow...do you know what I mean?

Anyhow, in terms of physical pleasure, morning is not it for me. Also

More Foreplay is increasingly needed as well.
I hate admitting that but yes, age HAS started to affect things in both of us. That's why I went to my doctor and said I missed having my "full mojo" and I got a RX for hormones. They have made a difference for me and I'm so glad I went.

I say all this to say that your w's choice puzzles me. The lack of foreplay, IF I read your comments correctly, is NOT at your end, but at hers? Are you positive that is what she is requesting? That's very unusual...especially for a woman

Frankly, since the whole childhood trauma thing is vague, I can't wrap my brain around what role that would have in this either. I mean, do you think there is some sort of connection? Was your sex life better before, I mean before all this marital ordeal --like when you first fell in love?

Did she mislead you then, or do you feel it was honestly better/different than now? IF So, in what way?

Yes I know it's "fine" now, but I also sense an element lacking for you. Don't sweep that under the rug Crimson. Really catch yourself on the desire to "not make a big deal out of it." You have to talk about this more than usual.

I think it's a harbinger of something big. Perhaps and hopefully, something big that you two will address, work through and benefit from!

But ignoring that is dangerous to this frail r, which I know you are tenderly nurturing with the utmost care.



Thus far, we don't really kiss. Not like people passionate about one another kiss. It's not me...I want to - but she still has that wall up. Her IC says that a lot of it has to do with the sexual trauma and abuse from her childhood that makes intimate connections difficult.


really? Can you explain that in a way that you are comfortable with? I really don't get how a trauma can make someone want LESS foreplay or LESS of the non sexual intimacy. It seems like it'd be the opposite to me, (but what do I know?)
From what you are implying, you guys are more about the act itself and that's why I don't get the connection between her wanting less kissing/foreplay, and a childhood issue.

Also, at some point dear God, she MUST get past this. Sorry, really I am so sorry. But that's just reality.
I don't just say that for your sake (mostly, sure, but not all). SHE deserves to enjoy the full spectrum of loving sex, which she's denying herself. Sadly, she may be denying some of that to you, AND all because of an event(s) from decades ago?

How has her sister handled it?

In my single life, I got used to foreplay as part of the process, and my ego kind of takes it hard -- as if there is something wrong with me physically or something. She tells me repeatedly that it is NOT me. Still, initiating sex can be a humbling experience because if I am the one putting it out there - through touching or something - it's more often that not politely declined. If she starts it, I jump on board and feel almost like I have hit the lottery.

Crimson, remember that you like me when you read my next paragraph bc it's NOT going to be easy to read, okay?

Ask yourself some hard questions about all this^^^....what if she does NOT change?
What if her desire is always going to be low or off, or what if you are made to feel "less than", b/c you want a passionate love life and she wants....a zygote implanted?

Sometimes we all get so invested in reconciling that we forget to ask ourselves if we want to be married to our spouses, or if we simply don't want to be the rejected one....you want her for your wife again? EVEN IF Sex isn't ever going to be what you want it to be?




Today she texted me at work and said that we should practice kissing. Though I am thrilled by the prospect, I am also somewhat ego-bruised because it sounds like something you have to do with someone that you are repulsed by. And, sadly, in my head I think about the OM she was with for 6 months and wonder if she had to "practice" there too....I doubt it. But I know, I know -- it's a different kind of relationship. She said in her text that it's one of those things where we just need to practice until it feels natural. So tell me....

Is THAT part of the rebuilding process??


Not sure, maybe ask LaBug that one. I happen to like that your w asked, however. She's not bottling it up and hoping you can read her mind, then blaming you for not knowing what she wants b/c "you should know". She actually initiated something related to sex, right? So that's a very good thing to me.


I have been off of my ADs for about three months now and my sex drive is kind of off the chart right now...so I know I don't need the practice or to "warm back up" to her.

Is this normal? Vets? Help!

Crimson


The first time my h ever experienced ED was when we very first reconciled...hey, talk about freaking me out.

You can imagine the thoughts that went through my head. But that's pretty resolved now so, thankfully, I'm not going to wonder about it all. Seriously.

I say this b/c I didn't expect it. I thought the opposite would happen and we'd rush into bed and get on with things!!

And later on, when we'd see each other unexpectedly, or when it seemed to "mean something" positive about our m, that did happen. It was definitely more passionate than usual. Which was great.

And which is what I'm hoping happens for you. I think You need to use all those new tools you have, for discussing this sensitive important topic.

Unlike political discussions or theological ones, which are important to me but which h does not always want to have, I cannot have sex with someone else...(not in THIS marriage anyhow, maybe my next life I'll do one of those "open" things)

So it's a need that has to be met inside the m. I think your w gets that. Can't be swept under the rug.

Hmmm, Crimson, track me down on the alternate universe if you can b/c I have some other suggestions but am not sure they're okay to post about here.

Good luck with this, and btw, any discussion of the embryo lately?

And I'm NOT asking that with a snarky face, just so you know. I'm only curious

Happy New Year buddy!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
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X marries OW 5/2016

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Originally Posted By: Crimson


Sex. That old thing again. We jumped back into the saddle again awhile ago so it is part of the relationship, but it is kind of "mechanical" in the sense that there is really no foreplay or build up per se.....it just kind of happens - usually in the morning before S wakes up for the day and we start moving a million MPH to get out of the house in time for work. Thus far, we don't really kiss. Not like people passionate about one another kiss. It's not me...I want to - but she still has that wall up. Her IC says that a lot of it has to do with the sexual trauma and abuse from her childhood that makes intimate connections difficult.



Crimson, I hesitate to post this because 1) I am not totally up on your sich, I have read a lot of it, but am by no means really familiar 2) 25years has already chimed in and imo everything she says is gold and 3) this is really personal stuff. BUT...(you knew that was coming)... When I read this I could relate to your W. Maybe we don't have the same thought process, but maybe there's something to it, so I'll say it.

I love morning sex. Totally my favorite. The best part of any day I don't have to get up super early. But I very well may be in the minority. So maybe your W actually likes it, maybe she is just being accommodating. It's probably worth figuring out.

And believe it or not, I understand about your W not wanting a lot of foreplay. Foreplay is a very intimate thing to do, and if you don't need it to "get there" then it's easier to just focus on the "getting there" and not have to expose yourself intimately. I am sorry to say I spent a lot of years doing that. H was very happy with our sex life (even in MC as he was listing off my faults he listed sex as a positive), and he thought I was, too. But it was, in fact, "mechanical", not a real connection. At least you have the wisdom to see that.

So I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted you to know that I could totally relate to your W on this one. And to encourage you to address it when the time is right.



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So 25, to put a fairly blunt point on it - she was molested by the woman her mom was in a relationship with while she was still with her dad. This went on for quite awhile and her mom was either complicit or clueless -- either way, it was bad. Her mom was with that woman for many, many years and the abuse began with she was right around 4. The woman would verbally abuse her, she and her mom would team up and tell her sister that she (XWGF) was evil...a liar...all sorts of stuff. The psychological abuse lasted all the way through high school - after the sexual abuse ended. Then, after the sexual abuse ended, she was raped at the age of 14 by someone she knew in high school. Things got pretty bad.

She is working through all of this in IC right now and taking it on for the first time in her life. Individuals that suffered through enduring sexual abuse (in her case, exacerbated by rape) as I have read/learned/talked through in IC sometimes have a difficult time establishing intimate relationships or establishing physical intimacy. Hence, in a casual relationship with someone new passion is fairly easy because vulnerability is not even on the table at that point. You're mostly chemicals at that point. With me, the nature of the relationship is more personally connected and the physical component of that is where she struggles.

It is getting better. I actually went with her to her IC two days ago - things are improving - but the IC has said that her story is the saddest that she has ever heard (childhood abuse/neglect). Furthermore, she WANTS it to get better - I can sense that she is really trying to get past her struggle.

So no, it's not 100% what I want it to be - but we are working on making things better. The things that happened to her were not her fault -- they contributed to the problems that ultimately up-ended our marriage - but the were not her fault. Trust me, I am the last person on the planet to make excuses for her - but as long as I know that her abuse/trauma is a factor in some of our problems, and I know she is working on those things pretty bravely - I am not going to bail out because everything I need is not there yet. I am content to give it more time. If anything, DB taught me a sh*tload about patience. I have it in me.

25, how in the blue hell would I find you in the real world? Trust me when I say my web forensic skills and overall online hunting prowess are much, much stronger that average (you learn a lot working for a data company!) -- but to date you have laid not a single bread crumb that is traceable! smile

Crimson

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Find me and I'll throw breadcrumbs out. smile

Your W's experience is horrible. Again, I hope for a strong recovery.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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I feel bad for what your W had to deal with. That is horrible. I will never understand how some people can be so cruel. My heart goes out to her.

I admire you, Crimson. You have shown her compassion and patience throughout this difficult time. It truly demonstrates the love you have for her and the character you have as a man. Honestly, she is blessed to have you in her life.


Me:45 ExW:48
M:04/97
3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
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Wow, Crimson. So much of what you have said really resonates with me. You XWGF is very lucky to have you.

Originally Posted By: Crimson
Individuals that suffered through enduring sexual abuse (in her case, exacerbated by rape) as I have read/learned/talked through in IC sometimes have a difficult time establishing intimate relationships or establishing physical intimacy. Hence, in a casual relationship with someone new passion is fairly easy because vulnerability is not even on the table at that point. You're mostly chemicals at that point. With me, the nature of the relationship is more personally connected and the physical component of that is where she struggles.


My H was molested by a family member as a child and he doesn't struggle with physical intimacy so much, but emotional intimacy is a real issue for us at times. The point you make about vulnerability is completely valid, IMO. I told H after we decided to work on our M that one of the hardest things for me was that he confided in OW about things he hadn't shared with me. His response was that it was easier to share with someone he didn't see a future with. This blew my mind originally. In a twisted way I get though. The abuse left a lot of emotional scars.

What happened to your partner is awful. My heart goes out to both of you. I hope with time and patience the intimacy will return.

Originally Posted By: Crimson
So no, it's not 100% what I want it to be - but we are working on making things better. The things that happened to her were not her fault -- they contributed to the problems that ultimately up-ended our marriage - but the were not her fault. Trust me, I am the last person on the planet to make excuses for her - but as long as I know that her abuse/trauma is a factor in some of our problems, and I know she is working on those things pretty bravely - I am not going to bail out because everything I need is not there yet. I am content to give it more time. If anything, DB taught me a sh*tload about patience. I have it in me


My H told me about his trauma fairly early on in our relationship. I had no idea the way in which it would affect our marriage or him. Abuse can cause a lot of destruction when it's not dealt with. Your partner is so brave to decide to confront the past. And you are also brave for choosing to stand by her and support her through it. I haven't read your whole story. What I have seen has been incredibly inspirational though.


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What's up, Crimson? Somebody told me to check out your sitch, so I'm curious about how things went over the last month. Hope all is well.


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I'm doing, good - thanks for asking. I am long overdue for an update.

The last month we have made a lot of progress. She has continued to see her IC and it is making a difference with the trauma from her childhood that went unrecognized and unmanaged in her life (and our marriage). She has been doing EMDR for a few months now - if you don't know what it is, Google it - it has been helpful for both of us. I have done it as well as part of my self-care and moving forward.

Things are by no means perfect, but after this journey I am forced to ask are they ever? Ya know? But we are really showing up differently in the relationship for sure. The odd part is, I now find myself in the role of the person wondering if her change is real and lasting - ironic as a former LBS, no? But in my weaker moments I really do try to assume positive intent on her end.

Couples therapy has been helpful. She was on the brink of giving it up not too long ago because I talked a lot about the things that went on that really hurt me, or things that I was still struggling with. She felt like I was blaming her for things - I know that I wasn't - I just needed to get things that were on the inside for so long out. I guess it was hard for her to hear or internalize. Still, I know that a large component of that is how we both maintain relatively different views on how we split. There are things we agree upon about the past, but still there are things that we do not see in the same light. Mostly about how she felt that for the longest time I was angry, lashing out and hateful. If you read up on my situation that lasted maybe for a month or two while I was here but went away rather quickly once I started looking at myself and my role. It's amazing how one person can try to be one thing and another person sees it as the exact opposite. Sometimes her interpretations of me from back then (or at least how she remembers it) are really hurtful and distorted, but I can't do a thing about it. Furthermore, why bother even trying to solve for it? It's a road to nowhere and moving forward and agreeing on "from this day forward" issues mean a lot more to me right now than trying to clear the road from a car crash 3,000 miles behind me on the path I am on.

25 - you asked about the embryo. I am ready to talk about it now. Some time ago, we went all in and tried to use it. Shots, Dr. visits - everything. I'll spare the lead-up and details, but she was pregnant for two days and then lost it. She was devastated and very opened up. It was that pain that triggered the memories of her abuse and landed her in IC. So no more embryos. That ship has sailed.

I will say this as a PSA for folks here, though. There is a very strong correlation between SSRIs (I know a lot of us here are leaning on them) and fertility issues. specifically, sperm quality. I was on them long before we started trying (20 mg of prozac) and I had issues with volume, count, morphology (shape) and motility (swimming ability). ALL of those issues are documented as problems caused by SSRIs. I am off of them now for quite a few months (and doing great!) and I am almost certain there have been improvements on all of those fronts. Again - I am not a doctor, but look it up -- it's legit. If you are on them and hoping to have a baby one day, talk to your doctor.

Anyhoo....we are good. Even hanging out with my parents from time to time. My relationship there is different, too. Hard for them, but I think they get it. Much more to say, but I have to bail and pick her up from yoga. S and I are sitting here at a coffee shop like a bunch of hipsters. smile

Stay positive, friends.

Crimson

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