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rd has given you some wise advice about communicating with your W's best friend, Barry. Her allegiance is to your W, not to you. And the thing is, she will most likely tell your W that you had tea and sobbed your heart out and went on and on about a possible OM. Yikes. Not the strong, "I'll-be-fine-either-way" Barry we want to portray, right?

Listen, I'm not trying to kick you while you're down. We all feel weak sometimes and make bad calls. (And it's a bad call because it left YOU hurting and sad and feeling weak and vulnerable. A better call would have been to tell your curiosity to take a backseat, realize that the only thing you had to talk about with W's best fried is W - which is NOT a good topic for you to be discussing with her right now - and then gone on a walk or something instead.)

This DB journey is more about finding yourself than repairing your M. (We hope the former results in the latter.) You said it best, Barry:

I should just carry on with the DB techniques until I feel I'm strong enough to face the worst outcome. Maybe in finding that strength she will see something attractive again.

Don't mention D if that's not what you want. Seek legal advice to protect yourself in case W files. But you don't push the D if you don't want it.

Meanwhile, don't talk to W's best friend about W or your M. It is just going to serve to push your W further away once she finds out you spoke with her at all but especially about your M. And she probably found out the moment you left. That's how us girls are, especially with our best friends.

Take care of you. You will hit some potholes as you walk this path. What's important is learning from them so you don't keep stepping in the same potholes. Anything that damages your PMA needs to be off-limits, especially here in the beginning, okay?

Now, what do you have planned this week to re-build your PMA? Anything fun or daring or adventurous? smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
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Hi Toots,

As usual, you're quite right in your post.
Her allegiance is to W first and foremost.

She probably did tell her I was round there, upset and talking about M. I don't know if she would have said about me talking about an OM, she knows that would just stir things up and make things worse. I know they tell each other everything but I don't think she would be as vindictive as to do that, particularly because of the state I was in. I don't know why, but I was much worse yesterday than I have been since BD. As I say, I think just holding it all in and trying to show the world I'm strong just took its toll.

I dont really want to show the BF that I'm a wreck inside either because it all filters back to W and as you say, just puts me across as weak. I've made a point of only telling her positive things recently so that's what gets back. I know that's a bit manipulative, which I'm not particularly comfortable with but the end justifies the means. The thing I've found as well is that when I'm able to project a strong persona, I actually start to feel a bit better too. Not hopeful about our R or M as such because nothing at all has changed. I must be more careful around WBF for sure though.

I'm trying to keep busy but some of my original plans for this week have fallen through. I'm keeping up with the gym work and am noticing the difference already which is nice. I'm going for dinner with a couple of guys from work one evening this week but I really need to investigate some new things where I can meet new people.
It's nice seeing old or existing friends but meeting new people would force me to think about who I really am too. I'm not likely to meet a new group of people and introduce myself as Barry, the separated 39 year old whose battling to stay afloat!

Anyone have any suggestions?

Barry


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
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Hi Barry,

You are going to have good days and bad days. Your whole life has been turned upside down. The important thing is to keep getting back up and taking a step forward. Baby steps count too. : )

If you remind yourself that contacting your wife ( other than needed for the kids) will push her further away it may help you stay strong. Fake it until you make it.

Is their a running or biking group you could join? Sometimes that's a good way to keep busy and make new friends


Me 52 H 44
T9 M 5
BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
OW gone for good 6/14
We get closer again 9/14
SD 13 Me 4 Grown





Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
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I did mean you Train, got a bit mixed up there.

Good advice Karma, I'll try to look at it as baby steps, I think that's the best I can do rght now.
I did contact W this morning about something (I've made a new thread with what it was about - I don't know when threads become locked??), but I will definatly have to start thinking the way you said reference pushing her away by contacting.
Love the "Fake it till you make it" comment.

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
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Barry,

First of all. I think you are are great guy. You are fighting for your marriage, you love you wife and kids. You are a stand-up guy. I'm a fan of yours.

You are feeling much like we all felt in the beginning. I was terrible at divorce busting, bad at laying down boundaries and so desperate to reconcile that I lost myself in the process. I also lost my marriage. In the end it was a blessing, because my wife showed her true character and no-one should be married to a person like that. Having said that, I'm the "red-flag" poster here. I'm the guy who can tell you what NOT to do. ;-)

Here are some things that are part of the dynamic that are helpful to note.

1. Though you are very hurt, showing weakness and vulnerability, and desperate desire to reconcile will only turn-off your wife more.

2. You children will generally side with whomever they perceive to be the stronger parent. Often in an affair, they side with person cheating or wanting the divorce), since they are happy, purposeful, clear and filled with endorphins. The betrayed spouse looks and acts like road-kill. If you are a dependent, weak child in a harsh world and you have to side with one of two people: they choose the abuser since the one being bludgeoned doesn't look like they'll survive the ordeal, much less be able to take care of them. My wife got my kids to ask me to leave the house. At the time she was screwing another man and bringing him to the house for lunch to meet the kids while I was out working to support the family. Obscene isn't it? I also notice your wife is probably better at laying down boundaries better than you are. "Stay out of MY room" she says, and you apologize. In other words, YOUR mental picture and behavior, strange as it may sound, needs to be more like what your wife is like. She's happy strong and confident.

3. Don't expect your kids to break their routine to reach out to you to hang out. You need to schedule those times. My kids are the same.

4. Personally, I think a f*ck you attitude towards your wife right now is the only healthy place you can be. It's a matter of survival. The stronger you are, (emotionally, financially and physically) the more your kids will gravitate to you. Also it's more likely to attract your wife back. Please also read the *** site to get you laughing and get a little fire in your belly.

Theoden

Last edited by Cristy; 01/27/15 07:23 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other websites/forums



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Hi Theoden,

Thanks for your kind words, I really appreciate that, and I also think you're a great guy too with lots of good advice and knowledge. It's great to have people like you here on this site to advise us newbies where we're going wrong..and right.

Sunday (the day at WBF's) has really bothered me that I let myself go like that in front of someone who, although is a friend to me too, will surely have told W most if not all of what I said. I still don't think she would have told her about the OM concerns I expressed, and I can say that she certainly didn't appear to be lying about there not being one. I have some experience through my work of sniffing out the lies in people and have a fairly high succes rate.

I was really cross with myself on Monday and felt I'd taken a big step backwards in my personal feelings about the sitch. I've had to stop, take a breath, and tell myself that I can't change what I did or said and to move on from here with a better attitude.

The BF would certainly have told W about me being upset (it was more than that TBH, it was the worst I've ever been if the truth be told), so I've decided to try and steer clear of her for the time being until I can control my emotions better. I'm sure the meds I have for my depression/anxiety played some sort of role in getting to where I was on Sunday, although I do feel they are helping in the long run. The effects are cumulative and take a few weeks to really kick in I've read.

Although I do desperately want to reconcile, I am really committed to the DB techniques that I've been advised on and read about on this site. They seem to be my best chance of saving myself, if not necessarily my M. My book hasn't arrived yet (that's the UK postal system for you) but hopefully it will be hear soon. I'm itching to read the whole thing to try and understand it all better. Don't get me wrong, I get the gist of it from everyone's kind (or not so kind but necassary) advice to me but I think the book is a must if I'm to get the most from this site and you guys.

Regarding the kids, my S20 and S18 are on my "side" if that's the way to put it. I don't really want there to be any sides as such but I'm not sure that's possible. My D15 is probably siding with W, I guess from the comments she's been subjected to over Christmas when they were away from home. Its obviously because they are both females too. I'm not saying that my D is somehow against me (although she does know how to upset me in an instant - a talent she gets from W) **note to self, that has to stop...and today, but I think she's of the opinion that this is all somehow for the best. That is W talking.

My S13 is having some issues at school, which started before the current sitch, but I'm sure have something to do with the issues between W and I over the last 18 months. Not all because of but its a contributing factor. He outwardly appears indifferent in some ways to what is happening, but I personally think that he believes we will reconcile as we did last year. W sees it that he's the one coping with it best out of all 4 of them, on that we disagree.

All four of them are aware of the reasons I moved out etc, and I do only try to show strength and a positive frame of mind when I''m with them or talk to them. Me and the boys went for food and bowling tonight which was great, my D couldn't make it, and I will admit that I text'd W to see if she wanted to come too. That offer was really an olive branch which she could take or leave, we were going regardless and I was sure to let her know as much. She said no anyway.

Reference the bedroom being HER room, as much as I don't like that, that is actually the case at the moment. I wouldn't want her in my room at my parents either (with my 37 rules pinned to the wall along with bits and pieces of good advice on here I've printed off). A simple apology seemed to be more appropriate than a harsh f*** you at the time TBH. I do agree that I need to exude happiness, confidence, and strength at all times bar when I'm alone or with a few select friends though.

I'm not sure I'm at the point where I can have a FY attitude towards her just yet (certainly not openly anyway). What I've really tried to start to get my head around today is thinking of what my life is going to be like without her. I have to say that it's not an attractive thought but one that I can't keep pushing away as currently, that's exactly what is going to happen. I really am starting to realise that I can only change myself to be "someone only a fool would leave", be that her, or another fool I may meet one day if that's how it turns out.

I've started another thread "This can't be the end! #2" as I guess this one will lock up soon due to the number of posts (all of which I'm very appreciative of, no matter what the content). Thank you to everyone so far, please keep with me, I still need all the support I can get!!

I know the site you mean Theoden, I saw it the other day but I'm not sure it's for me just yet.

Sorry for the long post, that's something else I have on my list...to get my point across by saying less!

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
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Better to spew it all out here Barry. When you fake it until you make it it means you are showing in front of her what you want to project but are not totally able to yet. Be strong in front of her the. Come here and vent, spew ect!

This is all life changing. Sometimes our lives get shook up to awaken us. What is your lesson in all this?


Me 52 H 44
T9 M 5
BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
OW gone for good 6/14
We get closer again 9/14
SD 13 Me 4 Grown





Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
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What is my lesson in all this?

Thatís a very good question Karma, which Iíve been thinking a lot about over the last few days.
Iíve started making a list, and this is the current top 10..

1. You never know anyone as well as you think you do.
2. My own happiness shouldnít, and canít be gauged by anotherís.
3. I am not in control of anything but my own decisions and feelings.
4. Never again will I open my heart to anyone the way I have previously.
5. No one loves someone who doesnít love themselves.
6. Life is about progress, not perfection.
7. Forgiveness is different from second chances.
8. Have no expectations from life to avoid disappointment or hurt.
9. The soul knows what to do to heal, the trick is to silence the mind.
10. You never know anyone as well as you think you do.

Your tag line of ďAccept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will beĒ is great too.
It should be on the list but I chose to put No1. twice instead.

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Joined: Jan 2015
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I would like to add something which isn't so much a lesson as much as a statement I keep in the front of my mind.
That is that I love my wife and children more that anything in the world, and it's still very important to me that I do everything possible to bring us together as a family unit. Ultimatley, it may be out of my hands of course, but that is what I want for ME.

Even if it's not meant to be in this order, my priorities would probably still be 1) children, 2) wife, 3) me. That's just the way I'm built.
I realise I'm not even on her list right now, and I can't change her mind. All I can do is try to make myself a better person, the Barry I want to be for my own stability and health. I'm not a bad person and I have a lot of love to give, but as lesson No4. says above, I will never be able to fully open myself to anyone (not even my W) again after the last year's events. I can't.

I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, but to love the person who has hurt you the most does seem like a ridiculous concept.
I'm sure there is a limit to it, which I hope I don't have to reach.

As it stands, I am willing to truly forgive and reconcile with my W, but only if I 100% believe (and she shows) that she is willing to work on the M and give it her all. There will need to be clear boundries from both of us which need to be agreed to and maybe she won't want to agree to some of mine (or I to hers) which will scupper any hopes of reconciliation.
However, if we can agree on these things, stick at it, and it still doesn't work, we can both walk away with our heads held high that we gave it everything we had. Currently, I don't feel that's what we're doing and it feels like she's just thrown in the towel.
I believe she feels that she's tried to work this out in every way already.

I can't make her of course, but I think she needs to really have a good look at some of her weak points and her part in the demise of our M. She will fall foul of this again (even if that not be with me) unless she does some soul searching of her own.
Of course, I may not be around to see that happen, but I don't want to see her hurt, no matter how much she has hurt me.
I'll always love her I guess, no matter what the outcome of our sitch.

I don't want our M to end, but nor do I want either of us to feel unhappy most of the time, for either of us to feel un-loved, or our children to suffer as a result of a strained R.
As I say, I am willing to commit to reconciliation, and am aware that it will be a long road even if the outcome is what we all hope for in our sitch's. Unfortunatley, my W is not in the same place as me right now and maybe never will be.

It's still very early days in our sitch, but I won't wait forever.

Barry.


Me 40 W 38
T 23 M 21
S21 S19 D16 S14
BD 19/12/2014
D mentioned 27/2/2015.
I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Joined: Oct 2014
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Hi Barry

I'll apologise in advance if I'm not fully update with your sitch. I'm just responding to your most recent posting.

There are a lot of 'what ifs' in there. If we were ever to reconcile, there would need to be this and that etc. But you do say elsewhere that you know this isn't on your W's radar right now. And I agree, if your sitch is like most on here, it will take considerable time (if ever) before your W is interested in reconciliation. So, for now, I think this is cheeseless tunnel thinking, and you would be better shifting your focus onto yourself.

You say elsewhere in your post that you need to work on making yourself a better person. Have you identified what you want to do and how you are going to approach this? It would be great to see a post from you, putting your W aside, and talking about Barry and his life going forwards. Of course, your W may ask to rejoin you in that life at some point....or she may not...but if you get to the point you are happy with that life, you will detach more from the reconciliation outcome.

Also, watch yourself there with the 'never' thinking - "I'll never be able to fully open myself to anyone." At the moment, whilst things may hurt (and I know the hurt is excruciating), you will, with time and effort, feel better about them. And at this point, there's no telling how open you might be to your W or someone else at some point in the future. It would be more accurate (and helpful) to say that "it will take time and effort before I could trust my W (or someone) else again." That's better than the kind of "hopeless" thinking, which consigns your to a life of non-connection with potential future partners.

I agree with what others have said about W's friend. Best to only offer her the DB version of you going forwards. H & I have a mutual friend, who has kept in touch with us both, and I haven't always been as careful with her as I should have been. That undermines efforts that you may be making elsewhere, so best avoid allowing yourself to be vulnerable and emotional where this is going to be relayed to your W.

So, maybe have a think about the following:

*Barry's plan for becoming the person he wants to be
*Challenging pessimistic/hopeless thinking

These would be a good step in the right direction. Hope this is helpful! Toots :-)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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