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hjoseph #2526108 01/12/15 05:47 PM
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hjoseph Offline OP
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Nettles, I misread your comment about fighting her terms on D. I would fight any unfair terms on D.

In addition, She replied that it doesn't matter who files so she will take care of it. She asked for my address and said that she will have the money to file on February 6th and she would like for me to pay half and I left it at that. We haven't spoken or text since then. Thinking about how I reacted to that conversation, I realized that I did not react like I would have a few weeks ago. I do not think she expected for me to not panic. My normal reaction would have been to say I am not ready and to ask for another chance. In some ways, I am proud of myself but I still feel despair at the fact my M might end. I have started a new life with new friends. I have a regular hobby. I am enjoying this new life as much as I can. However, I see my new friends with their spouses and I feel such a hole open up in my heart and the thoughts about how can my M end this way? why is it ending? and why me? consume me until I find my way back to acceptance. We have been separated for 7 months now. The longer it last, the more I realize the end is inevitable. I don't want any of you to think I am unhappy. I try to find happiness in everything that I do, but like many of you I still cling to that light at the end of tunnel. you cant quite see where you will be but you hope it will in the arms of the one you gave your heart to. if not, you hope that all the work you've done to get you to the end will help you accept anything else besides what you've hoped for. I've heard D described as being reborn again but you must die first. I fear that path. I will continue the work to save my M until the end. on that note, I have followed the rules as far and as much as I can. we are co-parents so it is hard to go dark at times. Doing 180s is kind of difficult, we do not live together, we barely communicate and we rarely are around each other. I have sought counseling and attended men's seminar on marriages and relationships to better myself. I watched one of Michele's video on YouTube about WAWs and she expressed how the H goes on panic mode and become the H the W wished they had; however, they never see or notice the changes they make. At the end, the H becomes a better H at the WAW's account and make someone else extremely happy. I know I am not the same man. My happiness is not tied to being M but I would like to make my W happy. no one else. does this any of what I said to anyone? or am I way off base?

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5 Step son 5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, not sure.

Last edited by hjoseph; 01/12/15 05:54 PM.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
hjoseph #2526852 01/14/15 01:24 PM
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hjoseph Offline OP
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W asked me to pay half of the filing cost for D by February.. I did not give her an answer, but I do not want to pay half. How do I communicate that to her?


Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
hjoseph #2526874 01/14/15 03:04 PM
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I haven't read your thread yet, but I would say you probably don't want a D, since you are here. Therefore, simply tell her that if she is determined to get D from you that you will not stand in her way, but that you will not help her by financing it.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2526925 01/14/15 05:14 PM
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hjoseph Offline OP
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Thanks Sandi2.


Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
hjoseph #2527035 01/14/15 09:15 PM
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Need to vent:

Today is the first day her and I spoke for three days. I keep a joint account where I can transfer money to help with the kids, if I am out of town for work. I only keep about $40 in it at any given time. Today, I noticed the balance had dropped to $11 because of an insufficient funds charge. I called and asked. She said that she attempted to make a purchase on ebay and chose the wrong account on PayPal. This is the first time this happened, so I did not take money from her to pay for the charge but I did ask for not let it happen again and to cancel the card off PayPal. She text me that she couldn't cancel the transaction and asked me to cover it by transferring money to the account and she will pay me back. I couldn't properly read the text because my cell at times has a mind of its own, so I misread it. I texted back to ask her to call PayPal and asked why cant you transfer money from your account to joint account? She text back I am asking you to pay for it and I will give you the money. She text right after that I'll just figure it out, never mind. I text back that I couldn't read your text and I informed her I could not for my funds are in another bank and it will take 1 to 2 business days for the transfer.

I didn't trust that she would call and I know PayPal will attempt to charge me again. So,I called the bank and was able to cover it. I called her back and she immediately informed me this was her only day off and that she was trying to study. I told her I am just trying to make sure I don't want to incur any more charges and inform you I took care of it and wanted to schedule when we can meet so she can give me the money.
There no physical branches in our town, wire transfers are the only way to deposit money in that account.

After this interaction, I felt strange.
1) I am questioning that she made a mistake using PayPal. I think that she hoped it would clear. If it was a mistake, Why didn't she call me to warn me?

2) I felt like I was too nice when it came to her offering to pay for my ins.funds charge. (Did she offer out of guilt for trying to purchase something on the joint account?)The fee is insignificant to me and I dont take money from someone for such an amount. However,I still love her and I have to fight the urge to be a H sometimes when she clearly does not treat me as such.

3)From her tone, it felt like she was bothered by my attempts (by informing me that she was attempting to study) to avoid another charge when I called to schedule her repaying me and it bothered me. I was calm and just wanted to take care of it. I shouldn't let her dictate how I feel. It's hard sometimes to do that when you love someone.

4) Overall, I felt like she was testing the waters. The last conversation we had was about filing for D and I don't think my reaction to D was what she expected. She made it seem she was filling out the paperwork while we were exchanging texts and ask me for my address but the petition does not ask for your spouses address at anytime until you are ready to serve your spouse. Since she is asking to pay for half the filing cost, I am assuming she did not file yet and/or she was bluffing. At this point, I am indifferent. Its not what I want but, I keep doing what works.

5) I don't call her unless I need to like today. I completely understand the attitude of WAW and when they give you the ILYBNILWY speech. Personally, I feel if she thinks she can do better. Go right ahead. The ones in her circle have tried to date me after I moved out and they are the ones giving her advice.

6) I have read so many books, articles and watched videos on marriage, divorce and reconciliation since the ILYBNILWY speech. I have no confirmation on OM. I only have suspicions. If he is the person she wants, I am indifferent if I want to stop her or not. The issues she has expressed we had in our M will not be issues she will avoid by D. She needs to mature and so do I. I hoped that we could have did it together.

I don't know where emotionally I am right now, but I feel angry for her giving up. But, I have forgiven her. I feel happy that I may have the opportunity to start over again with someone new and I can use what I've learned to make someone else happy. I am sad for my family is broken. I am sad that D might actually happen even though I am fighting to stop it. Just needed to vent. Thanks guys.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5 Step son 5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, not sure

Last edited by hjoseph; 01/14/15 09:20 PM.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
hjoseph #2527124 01/14/15 11:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 182
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Vent away. It is out, so let it go.

What are some of the 180s you need to do? What are some other DR/DB principles you are using? Anything working?

It doesn't mean it is over because you have limited interactions or if W files. Every sitch is different, but the door was opened to R in my sitch when W was 1,000 miles away and not a part of a discussion with me, my L and her L for temporary orders after W filed.


me: 45 W:45
M 20 years
T 22 years
S14, S13, S11, D9
BD 2/28/14
D papers served 3/3/14
I moved out 3/15/14
MC start 4/2/14
I moved in 6/2/14
D suit withdrawn 6/30/14
Nettles #2527380 01/15/15 04:30 PM
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hjoseph Offline OP
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Nettles,
I need to be more decisive with her. She did not like the fact that I answered a yes/no question with a maybe. I am always seeking a compromise.

Stop lying.I lie about insignificant things. i.e. I would take out the trash the morning of and would say I did it the night prior to save face. She hated that.

Lastly, I resigned my commission so I can be home. She did take well to the constant travelling and taking care of the family on her own. She felt abandoned because I had leave days after she gave birth to our son. She did not have the opportunity to pursue her dreams because she had to sacrifice for me. Since the separation, she has enrolled in grad school and pursuing a MBA. Switched careers and handling her own finances. Her words: "I want to live on my own for a while and do the things I want to do." My 180 is give her space.

These are things she has told me before the separation.

Any principle that I have adopted have been twisted by her. She has made me the villain in all of this. According to what I've seen so far in regards to how I am treated by her family, I am the perpetrator.


Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
hjoseph #2527404 01/15/15 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Stop lying.I lie about insignificant things. i.e. I would take out the trash the morning of and would say I did it the night prior to save face. She hated that.


What are you doing to work on that? And I mean, what are you doing to find out why you did this? It has to be something more than "saving face". And news flash: EVERYONE hates this.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Any principle that I have adopted have been twisted by her.


What does that mean?

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

She has made me the villain in all of this. According to what I've seen so far in regards to how I am treated by her family, I am the perpetrator.


Is this surprising?


me: 45 W:45
M 20 years
T 22 years
S14, S13, S11, D9
BD 2/28/14
D papers served 3/3/14
I moved out 3/15/14
MC start 4/2/14
I moved in 6/2/14
D suit withdrawn 6/30/14
Nettles #2527842 01/16/15 03:34 PM
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Posts: 39
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hjoseph Offline OP
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Gathered from my counseling sessions for PTSD: My insecurities. Undervaluing my worth. The constant feeling of shame for what I did on deployments. They led me to think I was unworthy of the life I was living. To hide how I truly felt, I attempted to maintain the persona of the husband I used to be prior to my commissioning and when I failed, I lied.

DR has taught many great things about M. Especially, the M map. I have adopted many principles learned from DR. Its' a shame I didn't stumble on it before my separation.

To answer your question, my W knows me best. Any changes I have made to myself, she assumes its for her or R and are not permanent. However, I still monitor the results but no changes. At first, I thought I must have been missing the small signs. But, I did not want to confuse kindness for a sign she is willing to work towards R. I do take into consideration that she is now comfortable around me now.

Caveat: If I had to describe her attitude towards me, it would be of a person who is content. I do not see any emotional struggle with her decision.(Might be because she doesn't see or feel any consequences for her decision.)She treats me a level below of being a friend. I am not called for anything else except for when it comes to the kids.

I read DB and DR on the 6 month of our separation. We are now on month 7 months. Some principles I did not apply for it would have required for me to break the rules. Its hard to know what works because I do not really see any changes in her, but I do notice the changes in me.


Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
Nettles #2527860 01/16/15 04:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 39
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hjoseph Offline OP
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I want to add because I am considered a liar to her. Everything I say or do is immediately questioned in her mind. Instead of I said something, it is I claim something. I still believe I am not given the benefit of the doubt that I am telling the truth.


Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
Asked for D 1/09/15
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