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A Message from Michele
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Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 #2525903
01/12/15 02:10 AM
01/12/15 02:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Thank you Wonka. Your questions are very valuable and I'll answer them here.

I've been thinking and learning along the lines of your questions this entire weekend. I'm a little overwhelmed while at the same time thinking I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be.

So I'm tired. Tired of doing what isn't working. I know something's working when I'm feeling happy and energetic and I'm choosing the thoughts and actions that feed my happiness. It's a conscious thing.

So...

What is causing me pain?

My focus on my W. Simple as that.

What is making you feel angry?

My focus on my W not meeting my expectations.

What would doing the work look like to me?

Slowing down... examining my thoughts... questioning if a thought supports my R goals... refocusing on the one thought that works... "I love myself".... asking "If I love myself, what would I do?"... doing it... repeat.

What do you hope to achieve from that standpoint?

Happiness and satisfaction at the end of the day that I moved closer to my 6 month goals.

What kind of man do you want to be?

I want to be a centered, fun, relaxed, motivated, comfortable, purposeful, and secure man.

What kind of father do you want to be?

A father that is an example to his son so he can achieve the above.

What are your core values?

Poise, Enjoyment, Relaxation, Fidelity, Fitness, Discipline, Playfulness, Gratitude.



Now I just get on with it.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: HPoirot] #2525939
01/12/15 03:27 AM
01/12/15 03:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
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HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Journaling...

Friday night after the basketball game was very hard with W screaming at S12. W did apologize and then promised to not "bother" us on Saturday.

On Saturday, she did text and asked to keep S12 Sunday afternoon. I started a 180 then to get our conversations more friendly. DB Coach Chuck recommended against going completely dark and suggested improving the communication we do have, validating her friendly communications on her feelings, and along with the already recommended consistently friendly and prompt and polite approach.

So I did "Good morning, How are you?" in response to her text and she became polite as well. I wished her good day and maybe went to far telling her if she wanted to talk about Friday night I would listen.

In her last text reply that day, she ended with a smily face.

First thing this morning... she texted "Good morning HP" and let me know when she would pick up and return S12. Different times than she asked for yesterday. I returned the good morning and said S12 would be ready.

Before S12 left, I asked him how he felt about his mom. He said "Bad." I told him his mom loves him and to make sure he is nice and respectful to his mom. I mentioned to never hang up the phone on his mom.

A little after S12 left, W called me. As she has S12 and it could have been an emergency, I picked up and answered sounding upbeat.

She asked how I was. "Fine. How are you?" She says... "Better." She also sounds upbeat.

She said she had dropped of S12 at a classmate's house to play. She had asked him to look at 2 apartments with her but he said he didn't want to go. She mentioned where the apartments were.

Then she asked me if I planed to stay in the condo all year.

I said "I haven't thought about it yet."

She asked where I planned to move when I left the condo.

I said "I haven't thought about it yet."

She said "yes I guess that's a lot to think about" and mentioned she wanted to get a place close to where me and S12 were.

She also mentioned her plan to spend 2 months with her aunt was not working for S12 so she wanted to move sooner rather than later.

She asked how S12 was yesterday. I said "He was fine. In good spirits." Friendly but short answers.

She likes details in conversation. Giving her details in conversation was a 180 I used soon after BD that she seemed to like. Now, though, I figure she doesn't get it anymore as I am dark.

She then said... "You hinted before that you might want to talk. Is there anything you want to talk about?"

"No, nothing I want to talk about."

Long pause.

She says "Oookaay..."

I reply... "Is there anything else? Ok I'm going to go. Good luck finding an apartment."

She says "Ok." I hang up.

I was friendly but brief the whole time. No anger. Though, after I hung up the phone, I felt irritation that she keeps calling for non emergencies.

Then, almost immediately, she calls again. I reacted from my irritation and didn't answer. She didn't leave a VM.

So she called looking for a conversation and then wanted to talk more. This after her screaming on Friday. Again, like Sandi was saying, she wants conversation.

DB Coach Chuck I believe would say to encourage her to talk and I really listen and validate. I don't know that I should after Friday. Sticking then with letting her calls go to VM and delaying answering her texts.

Later, when S12 was due to get back... she sent a text saying they would be late. A few minutes later I respond "Ok." She then responds... "Didn't want to stop playing!"

S12 then called me to say he was on his way up. He sounded very happy and I heard his mom in the background. She had asked him to call.

When he got back... he was very happy and said he had a great time with mom.

She also dropped off a second pair of new sneaker with him. The receipt was inside. The 2 new pair of sneaker she bought for him totaled almost $250. Much more than we've ever spent on shoes.

Tonight, before S12 went to bed, I had him call his mom and say goodnight. I will be doing this every night to keep their communication open.

...

So I'm dark and polite even friendly. I show only an upbeat me. I show no interest in what she does or where she goes. If she talks, I keep it brief and then excuse myself. I make sure S12 knows his mom loves him and she must be treated with respect. And I just keep doing that.

Pulling way back.

No expectations.

No drama.

That is my goal for interactions with W this week.

I'm looking now to keep the road home smooth. I recognize that my angry actions the past few weeks were about my wanting to be in control and to punish W. I'm committed now to doing the hard line things I must do with an attitude of love and compassion instead of punishment and anger.

I have the final bills from our old home for her to pay a part of. Also the S12 tuition and the taxes. She needs money to get an apartment soon. I'm about to hit her with these bills. How can I do that lovingly instead of her feeling like I'm punishing her with life lessons?



Last edited by HPoirot; 01/12/15 03:32 AM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: HPoirot] #2525955
01/12/15 04:16 AM
01/12/15 04:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
W
Wonka Offline
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Wonka  Offline
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Posts: 7,319
HP,

Your interactions with W today has improved a lot...no? All because of your conscious awareness of how you choose to act with her. Well done! smile Keep going in this direction.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
I have the final bills from our old home for her to pay a part of. Also the S12 tuition and the taxes. She needs money to get an apartment soon. I'm about to hit her with these bills. How can I do that lovingly instead of her feeling like I'm punishing her with life lessons?


This part is tying loose ends of your old place and your approach will need to come from a place of collaboration as in "hey, there's some stuff that we need to take care of....(rattle of the items). How would you like to handle this? Here are my thoughts (detail them). What do you think?"

Just the facts ma'am.....then stay out of the way. Let life show her the lessons which we are seeing here already based on her comments about the heat, long drive to school, looking at apts, etc. W isn't liking it at all. Trust the process.

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: HPoirot] #2525956
01/12/15 04:16 AM
01/12/15 04:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 476
happy1 Offline
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happy1  Offline
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Posts: 476
Quote:
DB Coach Chuck recommended against going completely dark and suggested improving the communication we do have, validating her friendly communications on her feelings, and along with the already recommended consistently friendly and prompt and polite approach.


If this is what he recommends then why did you write this:
Quote:
I was friendly but brief the whole time. No anger. Though, after I hung up the phone, I felt irritation that she keeps calling for non emergencies.

Then, almost immediately, she calls again. I reacted from my irritation and didn't answer. She didn't leave a VM.

So she called looking for a conversation and then wanted to talk more. This after her screaming on Friday. Again, like Sandi was saying, she wants conversation.


If she wants to talk, why do not listen and why does it irritate you all the time? She is calling you for non emergencies b/c she is your W and wants to talk to you. She is clearly a talker, and someone who processes out loud to get to conclusion. It would be really easy for you to listen to her and validate her given the number of times she reaches out. Who cares that she screamed on Friday...she is trying, reaching out to you and allowing you not to go dark. You have to improve communication per the coach.

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: happy1] #2525992
01/12/15 09:03 AM
01/12/15 09:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,004
Colorado/USA
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Pink17 Offline
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Pink17  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,004
Colorado/USA
HP,

The quote you posted about The world ending...forgiveness was so great, it brought tear to my eyes.

For me, as I learned to defend myself from what hurts me, I normally felt anger and got free of the bad feelings. I was always very proud of how easy it is for me to let go on people, things, life. As I was angry, it would make it all easier for me to just disconnect. Now, I know better that it is not the way. I was not dealing with my problems, issues, I was just postponing the pain until it is now a giant snow ball. Thanks for posting it. It's great.

Regarding your W, your improvement is great, you are trying very hard and it counts. It's a day by day exercise. The more you do it, the easiest it will get. Like Wonka said, don't beat yourself, be patient and gentle with yourself too.

Your wife has a lot of guilt and she is processing it as she goes. Her reaching out to you may be somewhat the guilt that is speaking out. She needs to process all her feelings too, and if you keep friendly, polite she may be able to process it with a positive attitude towards you.

Be careful, not every day will be all summer feelings, there will be the dark days. As much as you have good intentions, there will be days you will feel completely shut down. Just breath and give yourself some space to just get through the day. Next day, things will be better.

You have been growing a lot, and are seeing the results of you self improvement. Your are listening and following advice from others.

I hope things will get better for you. Life is hard, but we have a choice to make it at least enjoyable. Keep the hard work.

My pastor said last sunday that we need to think of God and us like this: When pain hits us so hard we think:
"We are the son and God circle around us and answer all our prayers to make us happier.
But after suffering so much and for so long we think and conclude:
"God is the sun and we are all little star and planets that circle around him. He is the energy we need to keep moving."

Today, my pastor said that sometimes we have the "Wait" moment in our lives. Right now for example, we have no control of what our S will do and decide. So it is the wait moment. We can choose to move on with business or we can look into ourselves and say that I will do something in God's name, It will not be about myself, it will be about Him.

Good luck HP, I am very proud of you and how you are handling things right now. Keep doing the hard work.

(((((((HP)))))))))
Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: Pink17] #2525993
01/12/15 09:08 AM
01/12/15 09:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,004
Colorado/USA
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Pink17 Offline
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Pink17  Offline
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Posts: 1,004
Colorado/USA
hi Sandy,

Just want to say how sorry I am you need to face it all right now.

Your post is very inspiring, I will think a lot about that post. Even try to get closer to my extended family.

My prayers are with you!

((((((((Sandi))))))))))
Pink


Pink17
S22,19 and 16
D:8/5/2015



Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: Pink17] #2526002
01/12/15 11:14 AM
01/12/15 11:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,425
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sandi2 Offline
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Posts: 18,425
Thank you all for such sweet and comforting words. And thank you, HP, for allowing me to borrow your thread. It is very early where I am and I am feeling the effects of my emotional day yesterday, but my DB family helped me more than you know.

The loved one I lost was my mother. Such a model of what a lady should be! She was my best friend and the void she left in my life will be filled with the inspiration and memories she gave me. As far as I know, the only time I really shocked, and I'm sure, must have disappointed her greatly was when she discovered I was involved with OM. And yet, her motherly love surpassed that disappointment and she did not forsake me. So, I only tell you this about her as a tribute to her.

I know the majority of you are LBS's and suffer more greatly than I can imagine. I have been treated so kindly by most who come to the board. If I can encourage anyone to have hope and not give up, I want to try and do it. One day, your WAW'S will have to face the impact of her actions. She may be seeing some of it now, but has not really accepted that she is to blame. As the fog lifts and reality hits her harder and harder until her fantasy crashes down around her, she will begin to see how wrong she has been. Will she ever come to you with a broken and remorseful heart? It depends on the woman, her pride, the circumstances of the stitch, and you.

I can't remember, now, exactly how long it took me to overcome my pride enough to go to my H and truly present to him my remorseful and pathetic excuse of an apology. I think it was at least a year after the A ended, but I'm not sure. I actually prayed to God to give me the remorse I should have, b/c as a Christian I knew it was needed in order for me and my H to heal. That may not make sense to those who do not believe the way I do, but that was for me. Anyway, I can't imagine how long it may have taken if I had not asked God, maybe never.....IDK.

Please don't take this to be discouraging news for you, but more as information to let you know that for some WAW's it comes sooner.....or much later, but I doubt it comes quickly for very many. It is a process, like so many other things we have to go through. That is why I encourage you to make a life for yourself, while she is going through this process. It will not help to wait and watch, and getting angry b/c she is not doing what you want her to do. It will not push her to repent sooner. You will
probably never understand this woman she is right now. She doesn't even understand herself. Every WAW's journey is somewhat different. I count myself extremely blessed to have found those special people who were here and shined the light on the truth bright enough for me to find my way back.

Many of you are facing much more serious issues than I did, and my heart hurts for you. I see how lives can be destroyed, but I also know that lives can be restored. I wish I had the eloquent words and warmth that Vanilla has in her beautiful posts (thank you Vanilla). I wish my talent was editifying others. All I have to give is what I have learned, and hope that it might spare some of you a few mistakes along the way. But we all are still learning about life, aren't we? As Vanilla said, love is powerful. I believe it is more powerful than hate and anger and unforgiveness.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone who responded yesterday, and I pray you each will be blessed for your compassion.

And now, I am turning HP's thread back over to him. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: sandi2] #2526019
01/12/15 12:57 PM
01/12/15 12:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,147
Memphis, TN
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sofaraway Offline
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Hey HP,
I am going to throw one more little piece of advice out here for you. Slow down! Meaning mentally slow down. Allow yourself to breathe and to have time away from the drama that is your life right now. One of my regrets is how much control I gave my situation and how I allowed it to take up too much of my day. I ended up losing a great job, great family home, and most importantly time in my life.

I understand that the fact of the matter is you feel like you are engaged in some form of battle so as a man you go into the warrior mode and think constantly about your next move or plan or strategy. You have to stop this part of it from taking over and allow yourself time away from it.

I liked your answers as for what you want to be, that needs to be where you put your focus. Particularly right now the "what kind of dad" you want to be. Your child is struggling and feeling things that they should not be feeling at that age. Remember that you are the guardian for your child. Your #1 job is not to save your marriage, it is to minimize any adverse affects on your kids. There is a great movie out there that I watched while dealing with all this, it is called "Courageous". It is a religious backed movie but the message is the important part. Being Jewish myself I just separated out the religious undertones and received the message about what God intends for us as a father in regards top protecting and leading our children into adulthood. I highly recommend you rent it and watch the message. I think it will help you tremendously with the situation with your child.

Ian


M- 48
XW- mentally 17
KIDS- 3- S19, D23, D28
Married- 17 years
Divorce final- 10/16/09

Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: sandi2] #2526060
01/12/15 03:26 PM
01/12/15 03:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
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HPoirot  Offline OP
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H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Thank you all for such sweet and comforting words. And thank you, HP, for allowing me to borrow your thread. It is very early where I am and I am feeling the effects of my emotional day yesterday, but my DB family helped me more than you know.

The loved one I lost was my mother. Such a model of what a lady should be! She was my best friend and the void she left in my life will be filled with the inspiration and memories she gave me. As far as I know, the only time I really shocked, and I'm sure, must have disappointed her greatly was when she discovered I was involved with OM. And yet, her motherly love surpassed that disappointment and she did not forsake me. So, I only tell you this about her as a tribute to her.


Sandi... sending you and your family my best wishes. Your post, like all your posts here, is so very moving and powerful and I know the love in your words will help everyone who reads them no matter the sitch. Please take care and thank you for your wonderful work.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Re: Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #6 [Re: sofaraway] #2526062
01/12/15 03:32 PM
01/12/15 03:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
H
HPoirot Offline OP
Member
HPoirot  Offline OP
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 841
Originally Posted By: sofaraway
Hey HP,
I am going to throw one more little piece of advice out here for you. Slow down! Meaning mentally slow down. Allow yourself to breathe and to have time away from the drama that is your life right now. One of my regrets is how much control I gave my situation and how I allowed it to take up too much of my day. I ended up losing a great job, great family home, and most importantly time in my life.

I understand that the fact of the matter is you feel like you are engaged in some form of battle so as a man you go into the warrior mode and think constantly about your next move or plan or strategy. You have to stop this part of it from taking over and allow yourself time away from it.

I liked your answers as for what you want to be, that needs to be where you put your focus. Particularly right now the "what kind of dad" you want to be. Your child is struggling and feeling things that they should not be feeling at that age. Remember that you are the guardian for your child. Your #1 job is not to save your marriage, it is to minimize any adverse affects on your kids. There is a great movie out there that I watched while dealing with all this, it is called "Courageous". It is a religious backed movie but the message is the important part. Being Jewish myself I just separated out the religious undertones and received the message about what God intends for us as a father in regards top protecting and leading our children into adulthood. I highly recommend you rent it and watch the message. I think it will help you tremendously with the situation with your child.

Ian


Thank you sofaraway. Yes you are right and I will slow down even more. My reaction to all this is to do something and, even though doing nothing is something, it's a new and so far difficult thing for me to do.

Even right now when I making efforts to choose better thoughts, my mind drifts back to "what can I do!" or "What is she thinking!" or "What's going to happen next!"

It's exhausting and I know I can't go on like this b/c I see my boy struggling and I need to be more present. I think I did well over the weekend going slower and just letting interactions with W go by. I'm working to let my pain go by whenever it surfaces too.

Getting better everyday.

Thank you again.

Last edited by HPoirot; 01/12/15 03:33 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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