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A Message from Michele
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Mozza Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Card29
theyre still in fantasyland, Mozza. It stinks that it has gotten to this point, that he's moving in, but now reality gets to set in. Now they have to be on all of the time, which they won't.
Thanks for the reminder, Card29. I see the move-in as an accelerator: either towards a serious R or a breakup. Also, our family life with two young kids could never compare to a part-time lover. But a live-in barely-known new boyfriend? Perhaps. My W is not easy to live with and can start arguments or be unyielding. He might just not be perfect either, who knows.

Originally Posted By: Card29
How is your detachment? Obviously its not perfect since you are craving her. I don't blame you, I was there for 6 months! At least you're not pursuing like I did lol. What is the most detached you've been during this process?
Interesting question. As I recall, it's in early December when I went on two trips and I didn't have the kids for 12 straight days. The change of scenery, the ego boost I got from my friends and not having the kids helped me replenish my energy reserves. My detachment came from the idea that I wasn't such a bad husband after all and that my W made a big mistake when she left me for this new guy and that she'd come to regret it.

I'm more detached than at the beginning. I really try to avoid information about her and too many interactions. So it's evolving, even though I'm not there.I'm observing your (sudden!) evolution and seeing how it sticks, and maybe how it can inspire me.

Thanks for sharing your story and helping me see through mine.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Originally Posted By: jim0987
So today is the day she starts to find out about his toenail clippings, and his offensive attitudes and that he just leaves half eaten tubs of olives to go mouldy in the fridge.

Today is the beginning of the end of the fantasy and when real world sets in for them

No question its going to be hard for you Mozza, I hope your doing ok and have some good plans to do some things for you lined up.



And if it is of any help at all, he's got haemorrhoids, athletes foot and bad breath. Together with a pickled onion and lager habit, back acne and green snot, let's not forget the dandruff and waxy ears.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/05/15 07:02 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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I've met this guy and he chews his food very loudly...

He also leaves a teaspoon of sauce in the bottom of a jar and puts it back in the fridge, rather than rinsing it out and putting it in the recycling...(no wait, that's my H...)


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Mozza Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: jim0987
So today is the day she starts to find out about his toenail clippings, and his offensive attitudes and that he just leaves half eaten tubs of olives to go mouldy in the fridge.
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
And if it is of any help at all, he's got haemorrhoids, athletes foot and bad breath. Together with a pickled onion and lager habit, back acne and green snot, let's not forget the dandruff and waxy ears.
Originally Posted By: Toots
I've met this guy and he chews his food very loudly... He also leaves a teaspoon of sauce in the bottom of a jar and puts it back in the fridge, rather than rinsing it out and putting it in the recycling...(no wait, that's my H...)
Haha! You all made me laugh.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Originally Posted By: jim0987
I wouldnt be so set on timelines though except how they might help you. If youve read any of the stuff on the stockdale paradox he said that the ones who struggled most were the ones who had an end date in mind.
Woah! I never heard of the Stockdale paradox. I love it and I paste the Wikipedia extract here for everyone's benefit.

Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
In a business book by James C. Collins called Good to Great, Collins writes about a conversation he had with Stockdale regarding his coping strategy during his period in the Vietnamese POW camp.

I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.

When Collins asked who didn't make it out of Vietnam, Stockdale replied:

Oh, that's easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.

Stockdale then added:

This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

Witnessing this philosophy of duality, Collins went on to describe it as the Stockdale Paradox.
Had I known this, my nickname here would be Stockdale. To get through this, we need the faith that we will prevail no matter today's hardships. I've a game with a few close people where I take bets on how long W and OM will last (most don't give them until the summer...) but I think I'll drop it because it creates these expectations and that's not where my focus should be anyway. I'll go through this day to day, knowing that I will prevail.

Thanks jim0987! It's funny how we need to remind each other just about the same thing.

By the way, Stockdale was badass.
Originally Posted By: Wikipedia
When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.

So what was I saying about having a bad day? Yeah, forget it. ;-)


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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You should definitely drop the betting games on the length of their R, exactly for the reason that Stockdale explains...the people who thought they would be home by Easter, then by Christmas were the ones that broke. You have no idea what's going to happen with your WAW. They could be broken up in a month. They could last 6 months. They COULD last forever. My FIL is married to his A partner. Their A started in the mid-to-late 90's. They are happily M (or so it seems...who knows with anyone, really).

I've thought a lot about the Stockdale Paradox. It's a little tricky to apply to our sitches. I've been hesitant to make "R my M with WAW" as my goal, because it so easily leads me to attachment, expectations and a downward spiral. If you do that, make SURE you keep equal focus on the negative realities ("she currently wants nothing to do with the M and I have nothing that allows me to expect that to change"), then focus on the task at hand, which is YOU. It took me 6 solid months to truly begin to do my work for ME, not for WAW or an expectation for our M. I always said it was only for me and D2, but I was lying to myself. It partially was, but there was always a part of me that thought, "I can't wait until WAW learns about what I'm doing!"

Stay strong, my friend!


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
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Please consider Vicktor Frankl in Mans Search for meaning, it's about a Jewish prisoner in a nazi concentration camp. This wonderful writer subsequently became one of the U.S. greatest philosophers and psychologists. This book is in my personal top 5 books (along with DR of course). It is not an easy read but enormously inspiring.

This is all about mindfulness and PMA.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/06/15 12:45 AM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Mozza Offline OP
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Thanks Card29. I'm still doing it mostly for W. My philosophy is that time will take care of it and I already feel my focus shifting slowly towards myself. Your shift has been impressive to watch and I'll keep following what's next.

Thanks Vanilla for the book recommendation. I already have a few lined up and I'm a slow reader, but it's on the list. I've researched Frankl and it's interesting that he's one of the founders of the humanist branch of psychology. My IC is in the psychoanalytic branch and I feel naturally inclined to the cognitive branch.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza Offline OP
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... and she's back!

So my W came back to the country yesterday. We then texted back and forth about the kids (see 2523576 above). Today, she sent me two of the random texts for which she's becoming famous: one funny about the weather and one about the pic of me she sees on the side of Gmail conversations. She's clearly trying to engage, but I'm no wet noodle and I just politely reply after a short while. I haha-ed her joked and emoticoned the picture comment.

And now she just invited me for lunch. To catch up.

I'll accept, of course. I shouldn't completely avoid her, even though I'm really not comfortable around her knowing she's in love with OM and likely saying (and doing!) things that were only ours. I feel like a fool in front of her, like she's openly cheating on me and I accept it like a good boy. She keeps me where she wants me: a good and cordial co-parent.

At the same time, DB means I seize the opportunities for positive interactions and I show my changes. I'll go and be cordial and upbeat, show that I'm moving on with my life. I don't like it. Some people here want to she their W that they're angry; I want to show mine that I'm heartbroken. But I won't! I know, I know...

I read every single post in HPoirot's thread about how he should treat his W. He comes from anger and needs to move to cordial. I'm moving from distant and cordial to... cordial?

I just don't know what we can talk about at lunch. I don't want to tell her in details all I've done during the Holidays. I don't want to hear about her Holidays. I reel for days after I meet her because it reminds me of what I've lost - I can't stop thinking about her.

I should be happy she's inviting me. Many people here really want to be in touch with WAS and I'm lucky she reaches out. I just need to be careful not to be put in the friend zone. How so? Go figure.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Reasons you shouldn't go to this lunch (some from you, some from me):

  • It shows you're being a "good boy", happily waiting on her to act out her fantasy
  • Allows cake eating
  • You feel like a fool in front of her
  • You will be tempted to play the pitiful, heartbroken card.
  • Everything you could talk about at lunch will either be cake eating for her, pity from you, details about her life you don't want to hear about, or details from your life you don't want to share
  • Every time you're around her it causes a setback, and now it's worse because OM is living with her
  • This is the definition of friend zone. What do women do when they get back from on out-of-country trip? Have lunch with their friends to catch up!



Reasons you should go to lunch:

  • ...? Maybe I'm overstating one side of this argument, but feel free to add to this list.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
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