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W is lost to herself. I guess you will never fully know her feelings or views as those are hers.

At the moment her crazies are not disrupting your life or S11. A notional text from s11 will suffice, night mum, morning mum. This is possible, rather than calls and sent as part of prayers. Normalises and pattern builds for an ADD.

I well understand the panic of the potential lost child, fills the soul with dread for a short while.

I trust the alcohol is gone now that Xmas is over. HP needs some adult GAL soon. What plans for this HP?

How is your loving Dad?
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/28/14 05:07 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
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Hello Vanilla. Your idea is a good one... just ask S11 to send a short message in the morning and at night. I do ask him... and he'll say he doesn't want to. W did send him a "how're you doing?" text late morning. He would have seen it when he picked up his phone but I don't think he responded. I don't want to push or police him on that. At the same time, my W is sensitive as you know. She's already talked like I'm trying to take her son.

I don't know that I should be protecting her relationship with S11 when that's her job now. When S11 is away... I'll text and call him multiple times until he answers. Text him for a while. Tell him I miss him. I'm protecting my relationship with him.

And yes I'm down to a sip of alcohol. I did want to get more today... almost did. I was at a traffic light with S11 just now. I was really hurting again at the time. Take a left... go home. Right... bottle of rum. I had decided to get rum. Waiting for the light to turn... I looked at him. Told him... "let's go home." Went left.

I'll just eat a lot of cookies tonight instead.

...

I have not heard from W today and I don't expect to. I did not go by the old home tonight.

I don't know how to get to talking with her again from here. We've deteriorated so much from when we were sleeping in the same bed. Even after I confronted her on her PA and she stopped going out... I could still be around her.

I see that her standing aside and letting me leave with S11 was what angered me. After all the crying and screaming about not leaving... not disrupting S11's life... not ruining Christmas... not ruining his birthday... she let all those things happen. She could have spent time with him on Christmas and chose not to. Then just said "she didn't like it."

That and her crazed angry screaming. I don't know how I can sit with her, feel warmth for her, and validate her feelings like I did at the beginning of this.

But like a wet noodle I missed her for a little while today. Wondered what she was doing. Admit I thought about going by the old house to see her... if she was even there. Wanted to talk with her. Feared she will not miss me and is not bothered missing all this time with us.

I'm happy tomorrow I'll see my doctor about antidepressants b/c I need help.

But what really helped was the recognition that I can only grow as a man a fool would leave. I have a lot more work to do there and can only get to it. There's nothing else to do. She won't text anything like "let's talk" or "I miss us." I won't reach out to her. I'll leave her alone.

Last R talk I did try to control her and tell her what to think like she pointed out so I have set myself way back. She knows again I still want our M. I hope that my GALing and getting stronger will somehow turn that around. That I can finally look at her without anger and judgement b/c I'm really detached from her and her actions.

I'm afraid I've lost my W and my M, though. I know I'll be fine... certainly better than I was in our M. But I would like my W with me in my new life.

Now I'm off to play with my son and his new toy drone.

Just keep going.

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/28/14 09:46 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Just some thoughts. Clearly I need to GAL b/c I'm here too often...

Just cooked my first meal for S11 and myself here in the condo. Something simple... pasta and meat sauce... just to get myself moving in the kitchen again. S11 was excited to get my cooking tonight. It was just OK in my opinion.

In my old life, I did much of the cooking. I taught W how to cook. She's still not very good. She always said she loved my cooking and really seemed to appreciate it. I did love that she loved my cooking. I would like us to get back together someday so I can do more than cook for her.

So I'm thinking of the 180s I need to do for myself... to be a man a fool would leave.

The main things, then, are being more emotionally available, less self centered, more empathic, more supportive, and more courageous in the face of my Ws hard and sad emotions. My W wants to be seen and heard and valued. My W wants someone she can feel proud of... so someone who is happy with and proud of himself. Someone not angry, sad, introverted. Someone attractive.

I see how I haven't been those things for years.

For myself, I've wanted to be that person but never got past my sadness and need for W's support to do enough to get there.

So... plans to get there...

1. Be a great dad to S11
2. Continue with IC 2x per week to grow my inner strength and happiness.
3. Listen to my W if she talks about her hard truths about our M
4. Get out of the house on Fridays to do Tango class
5. Sign up for the acting class and take it.
6. Restart my side business and make it work everyday
7. Take interest in my job and focus on it 7 hours a day
8. Reconsidered the gym... may join a Crossfit gym to take the guesswork out
9. Restart my volunteering with teaching young people how to program computers
10. Take at least 3 trips this year.
11. Buy new clothes
12. Buy a Cadillac
13. Maybe buy a nice little home near my son's school.

This week for GAL I have my son's birthday and new year's eve. I have no plans for NYE. I don't want to go anywhere. I don't have any friends here to go with. I don't want to go anyplace by myself. I don't even want to think about it now.

Feeling a little low PMA now. I see this NC is going to be hard for me... at least at first.

So yes... I want to be in the company of a beautiful woman now. Like tonight. I see that I have a need for someone to see and want me... like my W shows she does so badly now. I don't like or want to be alone. So yes clearly I'm very needy and have been in my M. So has my W and neither of us gave the other what was needed. My IC said I should read up on co-dependency. I guess that's what this is that I'm feeling now. It would probably be a bad idea for me to go out on my own NYE.

Wow... I really want to call my W. So stupid.

Nothing to do about it.

Just keep going.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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I am here HP, reading your texts and validating with you. Any woman would be lucky to have a husband such as you. Don't forget that. Maybe your current wife doesn't get it, but lots of other women will. Don't ever doubt that.


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Thank you Jan. I will believe you. I do think I will be a good catch. Like you, though, I won't trust again like I did before all this. Never be this vulnerable with another person ever again. I don't believe I'll ever get married again either.

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/29/14 12:50 AM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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HA... text from W... "All is well?" She won't go days without hearing something from S11 I guess. Yet she'll miss his birthday. I don't understand this.

So then I make sure get S11 then so say good night and good morning. He chooses, though, to not answer her texts or calls. Torn on this one. I should just tell her S11 sometimes doesn't answer her and let her deal with it.

Another thing... I've started watching Joel Osteen on TV. He's talking about letting go and moving forward. I'm not religious... but I like and recommend him. "You may have had an unfair past... but you don't have to have an unfair future. Move forward." Good stuff.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Originally Posted By: HPoirot

The main things, then, are being more emotionally available, less self centered, more empathic, more supportive, and more courageous in the face of my Ws hard and sad emotions. My W wants to be seen and heard and valued. My W wants someone she can feel proud of... so someone who is happy with and proud of himself. Someone not angry, sad, introverted. Someone attractive.

I see how I haven't been those things for years.


HP, this is awesome that you have continued to focus on these things. You're last line, "someone attractive" hit it on the head. It is great to identify things that you started slacking in, and I know this isn't the first time you've reached these conclusions. But it is always good to continue to reinforce what you could have done better, and what you failed in, because as we both know, at the end of the day, the only person we can control is ourselves.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot

So... plans to get there...

1. Be a great dad to S11
2. Continue with IC 2x per week to grow my inner strength and happiness.
3. Listen to my W if she talks about her hard truths about our M
4. Get out of the house on Fridays to do Tango class
5. Sign up for the acting class and take it.
6. Restart my side business and make it work everyday
7. Take interest in my job and focus on it 7 hours a day
8. Reconsidered the gym... may join a Crossfit gym to take the guesswork out
9. Restart my volunteering with teaching young people how to program computers
10. Take at least 3 trips this year.
11. Buy new clothes
12. Buy a Cadillac
13. Maybe buy a nice little home near my son's school.


Glad you have a plan and a course of action to get to where you want to be. Sounds like you have a lot of plans to GAL for both yourself and with S11. Also sounds like its very broad, focusing on you by doing acting classes/new clothes/gym, and also selflessness by volunteering. This will make you a better person, a much more well-rounded person, the HP that you were and can become again. Side note, cross fit would be great. I don't want to be "that guy" to advertise CF but it will quickly give you a group of people that you can bond with, that its not just you working out by yourself in a gym. It will help you meet new people, new friends.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot

Wow... I really want to call my W. So stupid.


This isn't stupid HP. This is normal. We all have the urge to text or call W at random times throughout the day. Sometimes we can, sometimes we cant, depends on where relationship is with W. For you, if you are truly focusing on you and doing NC, then yes, probably not a good idea to call W. But like so many people have said over and over, I would also encourage that when you do have contact with W, you are friendlier, not so short or borderline antagonistic. Be that friendly neighbor.

Just my thoughts


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Right on the Joel Osteen. He's now on my SIRRIUS radio and he's amazing. Very powerful stuff about getting back up and not letting life's sour moments/people define us. God has better things in our future.

I remember he once said that this momentary displeasure is preparing us for a greater destiny. That really resonated with me and gave me hope.


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Wow... I was feeling pretty good just a little while ago. Now not great.

Tonight I had S11 text his mom good night. He didn't really want to but I made him this time. She then called and spoke with him for a minute. Don't know what was said... but I didn't like that it was so short. It shouldn't matter but my PMA just went straight down seeing that. I start thinking about what she's doing and that's bad for me.

I can't keep doing this to myself. I really just have to leave her behind b/c she is gone. Getting into this space makes me want to file right now b/c this person just doesn't deserve us. I want to stop worrying about my M tonight and tomorrow it will be there again in the morning. Now the tension and headache comes back. I hate this.

Olsteen was saying you wake up in the morning and you forgive the people you feel wronged you. That's the way to do this. I understand what she went through, understand the feelings that lead her here, understand wanting a new life. But I'm not yet forgiving her for taking it this far... for exploding all of our pain like this and in the worst way possible for us. I'm blaming her for my pain and that is keeping me here in this pain. I'm still giving her control over me.

I'm remembering what 25 said and what everyone says... this is her journey and I can have faith she will end up in a good place as a better person on the other side. Maybe even find her way back to us and to me. I took the same journey and came back. But that's not up to me... so I let her go and find my way to a better life for me. I hear this everyday, give other people the same advice, and still I make it hard on myself. I see staying up late and on this computer makes it harder to keep these feelings away.

So I'm off to sleeping pills and then sleep.

Tomorrow morning I will at least act as if I forgive my W and myself for everything.

Then just keep going.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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WRT the length of the phone call... I get being frustrated at the WAS's stellar parenting, but... Tonight I called my kids while they were at H's house. They had nothing to say, so I told them I loved them and wanted them to know it, and then I let them go back to what they were doing. Just making a small effort is important. As much as your S is hurting right now, it's not in his interests to drag out connection with his mom beyond the minimum he's willing to make. It highlights how abnormal things are, and makes him feel even less in control.

I'd like to suggest you make a deal with him about his minimum quota of mom-contact, give him power to control it within that limit, and then release your expectations beyond that. Just monitor to make sure he's doing the minimum agreed on -- maybe even talk about it in adult terms, as the importance of tending to his relationships and taking responsibility for his share -- and then carry on with your life.

You've taken on a lot of change in a short amount of time. But I'm concerned about the amount of self-medicating you report. What kind of support are you getting for that?


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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