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This woman has problems.

I know it's been established before, but the mood swings are just amazing to watch. Also, the strength of her fury is completely foreign to me. My W and I never, ever called each others names. A screaming voicemail? Unheard of.

I'll agree with Claire that your communications could be better, clearer, more forthcoming. Perhaps it could help, though I doubt anything you've done justifies her behavior. By the way, don't say "works better", always use "as agreed". Remove the flexibility and yourself from the equation. You deal with the agreed schedule and so should she. It's not about being at the movies or anything, it's about agreeing to 4 pm.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Just real quick before the movie starts... W cursing me is bothering me. I know it's my guilt and I've been here before. I know there's no talking with her. I know I shouldn't feel outrage or righteousness or anything. But this is my wife. I know these are her real feelings for me she's showing now. Is there nothing I can do to not be her enemy while showing attractive strength. She says I'm a great father then has nerve to ask me if I bought gifts on Christmas Eve. She thanks me for making Christmas special for S11 then a few hours later curses me because she's anxious for S11 in my care. I'm LRT but she can't take it. She just texted me again... "can s11 bring his new computer so I can see it?" She just called me an MF. I hear about bring friendly... But is she asking for too much with all this contact? I'm just feeling wrong again. I don't want wrong. I hate that my W hates me like this. Am I wrong?


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
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I believe that we teach people how to treat us.

There are people at whom we get upset, with some we're snappy, overly sweet, very patient, etc. It's not just about us: it's about them teaching us how to treat them. We sense that some things are not acceptable with them.

When you reward good behavior and punish bad behavior, people adapt. I think you're on the right track, HPoirot, but you need to fine tune it and by very very consistent. This adaptation comes in the larger context of 15 years of marriage so it will be very hard to re-train each other.

Ignore every inappropriate communication, but engage the good ones. Also, model good behavior: never raise your voice, curse or call her names. You'll show that you have standards ("what respectful man would accept to be called a mofo??") and that's attractive.

Do you think Dirty Harry would have listened to these voicemails? He'd have said something like "Knowing you were cursing at me, I deleted them." Try again if you want to reach me. That's strength.


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Movie with S11 was good. I little too long. Had a character obsessed with gold... So much he changed and gave up is honor for it. He was strong enough in the end to break free from his "sickness" and rejoin his people. A nice dream.

...

Text from W... "HP, I said awful things to you today. Just terrible. I don't recognize the woman who behaved that way. I so sorry for speaking to you like that. I am deeply ashamed of myself. You don't deserve that from me.
I hope you can excuse my behavior. It won't happen again."

Nothing I can do. Like the character, doesn't see what she's doing. Doesn't care. Months and years of this. And she's right... I'm avoiding her with this LRT. What does she think I can face her with. More manipulation. So what?

She'll be here to get S11 acting like nothing happened. Acting like she hasn't been acting insane. Like her dream is worth all her hell.

Is there nothing I can say to her? Just another truth dart in exchange for more horrible spew?

I'll tell myself "so what?" This time and just keep going.

I do agree with her.. I don't recognize this woman either.

She just seems so unpredictable to me still.

Anyway... Back to my life.




Last edited by HPoirot; 12/26/14 08:31 PM.

Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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Originally Posted By: claire7
When my H and I communicate about our D's schedule, I almost always start off with, "Hi H."

I think you are pushing her buttons. What might happen if you said, 'S11 and I are having a great time today, and have plans this afternoon. We agreed that you'd pick up S11 at 4 pm, and I'd like to stick to that. I am busy so I can't reply more at the moment."


Hello Claire,

I read your advice there and said to myself... "Yes, I can do nice. I'm a nice man. I can go back to being nice me from before and still do LRT."

So, after she picked up S11, she called. I let it go to VM. On her VM, she asked to keep S11 on his birthday... all day and night. Then I could have him for New Years Eve night.

Then, very soon after and as she's not content to wait for an answer, she sent me a text... "Can you listen to the VM I just left?"

I, of course, want to see my son on his birthday. I would also like to have new years eve so I can maybe GAL.

So I took your advice Claire and texted... "Hello W. How do you feel about me taking s11 to lunch on his birthday? Also can you please keep him New Year's Eve night? Thank you."

A big and kind 180.

Response... "Can we do lunch with him together? And yes I can do new years."

Lunch together. That would usually be an automatic no. But, now that I'm friendly HP, I sat to consider it.

A short ten minutes later I get a text... "I changed the calendar. You can do his birthday with him."

So she has given me his entire birthday with him and will keep him New Years Eve. She's going to miss his birthday now after missing Christmas with him.

Honestly, I really don't like writing so much about her. Since almost the beginning, I realized I have to write more about me and less about her. I don't let that happen by staying in her drama.

So, to stay out of her drama... I could just leave it like she wants. Let her not see her son on his birthday. Let that be acceptable in her new way of living her life. Not call her on it.

I want to say... "You're going to miss his birthday?" I want to say... "S11 didn't like that you didn't see him on Christmas."

I could invite her to lunch but I honestly don't care to sit and eat with her now. She knows that and likely that's why she offered the entire day after asking about lunch with her. On the other hand... she did call me an avoider. Doesn't matter what she thinks... she's not someone I care to see much less spend time with at the moment.

I feel like, once I get my attitude consistently here right, I will get the "as if" I'm detached look more than the "I'm too hurt and angry to look at your face" look.

So, what would James Bond do?

James Bond doesn't want the WAW as she's behaving. He ignores her asking if they can go to lunch together and doesn't offer the WAW to join him for lunch. He accepts the WAW's second offer of the entire birthday graciously with a "That would be fine WAW. Thank you." He doesn't rescue WAW from her choices. He shows S11 that he has is back.

That's it then.

I still hate this.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
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Let it slide, don't answer all her contacts.

If you moved forward with another person she is not number one, I suspect she's temp checking you to see if she is top of your list.


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Hello Ggrass. Yes thank you for your comment. After everything horrible she's done... I find wet noodle me still likes when she sends a positive contact. That, after cursing me like a crazy person today, that she could ask to have lunch with me and S11 is still too much. I know it's for her to feel good about what's happening to S11. So I know I must ignore that for now as per LRT and Wonka's to do list.

Still... I was friendly and got 2 friendly responses. Wet noodle me loves that mess. James Bond me knows that's not at all positive in my case. My W has been just too horrible and I know that I can't give her kindness in return for her misbehavior.

She did text me again if I was OK with having S11 on his birthday. James Bond me sent an appropriate cordial response... "Yes that is fine. Thank you W." Then I went farther... "I should say... S11 didn't like to not see you on Christmas." I should have said he was sad and upset to not see her. His words.

She replies "Yes he told me. I didn't like it either." I didn't reply to fix or suggest anything. She said nothing else. I hate hate hate this. She is really lost if she is just "not liking" missing S11's Christmas and birthday and doing nothing about it.

So later, she sends me a picture of S11 in a cool cap she got for him tonight. I admit, I had a drink and felt friendly, so I soon after replied... "Nice hat. Thank you for taking care of S11 W." She replies something like... "Have a good night. Thank you for being a great dad to S11."

And I did not like that. Did not like being that friendly with this person who just a few hours ago screamed at the top of her lungs that I was a MoFo and knew she was wrong to do it. And yes I save all those VM and texts where she admits her A. This state has fault divorce after all.

I know Wonka and Sandi and Starsky have this right... while my W is so so very wayward and disrespectful and lying, I can't do nice communications like this in response to her screaming curses at all. She only gets respectful and apologizes and seems to recognize that she is now completely unrecognizable when she goes over the top angry responding to me standing my ground and calling her sh!t stink. She's not proven to be someone I should be paying any attention to beyond S11 emergencies. I will not excuse her spew this morning and will give her the chance to examine why, as she says, she "did not recognize the woman" who cursed me while I was showing my son a wonderful morning.

Anyway... I have a new GAL on Friday nights starting in January. Tango lessons. I'll send a cordial text to W tomorrow asking her politely how she feels about Friday nights with S11. I'll also schedule some weekly acting classes, indoor soccer league games, regular gym sessions, and rock climbing time with S11 next week. I will GAL for real and for me.

Hmmm... again I see my post is all about W. Admittedly, I did not go out and GAL tonight. My fault. Tomorrow night I'll take S11 bowling!

Last edited by HPoirot; 12/27/14 04:26 AM.

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Good Lord HP. You must be a Saint. I don't know how you do it.

My hat is off to you Sir!

I am glad you were in control of your emotions, well done.


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Originally Posted By: hpoirot

I know Wonka and Sandi and Starsky have this right... while my W is so so very wayward and disrespectful and lying, I can't do nice communications like this in response to her screaming curses at all. She only gets respectful and apologizes and seems to recognize that she is now completely unrecognizable when she goes over the top angry responding to me standing my ground and calling her sh!t stink. She's not proven to be someone I should be paying any attention to beyond S11 emergencies. I will not excuse her spew this morning and will give her the chance to examine why, as she says, she "did not recognize the woman" who cursed me while I was showing my son a wonderful morning.


Hold up a sec, HP.

I think there is a place between "wet noodle" and nasty-in-return to her spew. There was a discussion up thread about rewarding positive behavior. I think that answering friendly texts, and acknowledging her apologies is that. (I mean, sure she shouldn't go off on you...but isn't it better that she apologize than NOT??)

What if you just detached from the spew? Put on your spew jacket and remain calm and friendly in a *detached* way. I say "Hello" to my neighbors, I wish them a good day, but I don't really know anything about their lives, and vice versa. They are not my friends, but I can be friendly with them.

Don't push her buttons. (Answer questions about S11 clearly and succinctly), but ignore the misbehavior if it still happens (state your boundary clearly: "W, I will not engage in a conversation with you when you are screaming and cursing at me.") But being kind when she is also being kind, IMO, is not rewarding the bad behavior.

Just my opinion...


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Originally Posted By: claire7


Hold up a sec, HP.

I think there is a place between "wet noodle" and nasty-in-return to her spew. There was a discussion up thread about rewarding positive behavior. I think that answering friendly texts, and acknowledging her apologies is that. (I mean, sure she shouldn't go off on you...but isn't it better that she apologize than NOT??)

What if you just detached from the spew? Put on your spew jacket and remain calm and friendly in a *detached* way. I say "Hello" to my neighbors, I wish them a good day, but I don't really know anything about their lives, and vice versa. They are not my friends, but I can be friendly with them.

Don't push her buttons. (Answer questions about S11 clearly and succinctly), but ignore the misbehavior if it still happens (state your boundary clearly: "W, I will not engage in a conversation with you when you are screaming and cursing at me.") But being kind when she is also being kind, IMO, is not rewarding the bad behavior.

Just my opinion...


OK Claire. I do see what you're saying. I'm just not sure. I believe in what Wonka, my IC, and others say ... "No more responding to texts UNLESS it involves S11" and "Focus on logistics on S11 related matters only." Just being cordial, prompt, and clear on communications we absolutely must have about S11. So, when she sends me a nice picture of S11 again... I won't respond.

I'm just generally not sure this morning. I'm woke up alone with the usual terrible thoughts. I'm feeling broken over a woman who has been evil to me. Had no problem screaming or coldly saying humiliating things to me then every time backing down and apologizing. Back and forth. That's not self respect. I can't go on like this.

She's not a good person and I want her completely out of my head. If I could successfully sue her for full custody of S11 and leave this city and her far behind then I would. Doing that is my fondest dream right now.

I want to dream of meeting a wonderful woman and living happily with her... but any dream of happiness and love and ML immediately brings hurts and terrible thoughts. I won't be able to really be with another woman in a good way for a very long time.

And then there was W's "You're and avoider" comment yesterday. Yes that has stuck with me... W got me again. Now I want to do something about that. Not look like a child avoiding her and her feelings. Not hiding like 25 said I am.

W said "you do not want to take this head on with me." As if I'm supposed to be standing with her dealing with her feelings everyday. She doesn't see me as strong. B/c S11 saw me cry, she says "If you're not strong enough S11 should stay with me." She sees all my actions since saying I was leaving as avoiding her. Like, if I was a man, I should have stayed in the house and just dealt with her.

I know she is manipulating me so she can feel in control b/c she doesn't. If I'm clearly weak and unhappy and childish I'm simply a "good man" and in her eyes then she can feel she's right to leave me. So, being James Bond when she tries to lash out at me from her place of fear, weakness, and anger is the thing to keep doing. Still, I let what she says get to me.

Hmm... I also see that I'm doing the same thing she's doing... trying to tear her down in my mind to lessen the pain and truth of her words on myself.

Now I'm just talking in circles again about her. No more talking.

I was reading other sitches here about good folks having good interactions... even ML with... their wayward WASs. Getting positive signs. I'm just wanting that right now. Again wanting something from her. Can't do that.

I have to learn to live without a woman again. Learn to get out of the house and do things that make me happy and stretch myself again. Learn to enjoy my work again. Learn to love myself.

Deep down I've felt down on myself for a long time now b/c I haven't taken my life to the next level. I use these wins with W to help myself feel better... more in control. If I can somehow accept all this that is happening and what she's done and who she is and that I'm not in control... then I'll simply be better... not just temporarily feel better.

I can accept all this and move on from this. When I accept it, I can simply stand in front of her and look at her more dispassionately b/c that is how I'll feel. Only then will I know that I'm leaving her behind. And then I'll be free to find someone wonderful to share a great life with.

I really want to be free of her b/c I still hurt badly. I still let her words hurt me. I still let her trying to define me hurts me.

I'm so much better than this.

Going to force myself to go for a run.


Me: 44
W: 45
S: 11
Married: 15
Together: 18
BD: 9/29/2014
OM discovered: 10/16/2014
I left her behind: 12/14/2014
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