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A Message from Michele
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Re: Card29 VII [Re: GoatGal] #2518122
12/17/14 03:25 PM
12/17/14 03:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
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Card29  Offline OP
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C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
I'm coming down from the "high" of radical honesty. WAW has went a bit quiet. Now I'm just nauseous about the logistics of moving out of my house. I have to be out by tomorrow night, still quite a bit to do.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518126
12/17/14 03:29 PM
12/17/14 03:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
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Card29  Offline OP
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C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
Also trying to avoid slipping into expectations and/or wishful thinking.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518194
12/17/14 06:31 PM
12/17/14 06:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
Member
Card29  Offline OP
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
One bit of info from the chaos of the last few days that I wasn't able to respond to was my WAW's comment that in our early days, she felt like she needed to perform with me (frequency, variety, etc) in order for me to want to stay with her. I had no idea she felt that pressure, and it was not necessary from my perspective. I loved her because we just clicked. The time I spent hanging out and talking with her were my favorite times of anything else in my life at that time, and I was generally happy to begin with. From the start, she understood me better than anyone I'd ever known, even my own parents and siblings. I was swept up with that.

The sex actually was almost a negative for me at first. I was a virgin and intended to wait until marriage, and I was perfectly content with that. I actually felt pressure from her to have sex...I didn't feel abused or anything, and as we started doing more and more things with each other, I became more open to premarital sex. But I was never super comfortable with it. Our sex life started to decline before we were even married, but I was okay with the lack of sex because I figured the less we did before marriage, the better. So I never even wondered why we were struggling. The distance had already begun...by then we were in our apartment together, and I was looking at porn at night in the living room, then sleeping on the couch out of shame.

Reading through some of the emotional needs books, I definitely think I have a higher preference than most men to affection. Obviously most of us need it to some degree, but instead of my primary needs being Sexual Fulfillment and Recreational Companionship, I think my top two are Affection and Recreational Companionship, with Sexual Fulfillment a close third. Until this week I wasn't able to understand how WAW and I could have the same top EN (Affection), but not fulfill each other. I won't pretend to fully understand already, but I believe some of it can be attributed to distance/lack of communication due to shame & clouded perception of intimacy due to porn use on my part, and (I believe) lack of self-esteem, quick self-judgment due to depression on her part.

Thoughts? And how should this communication look in a convo with her? With everything we talked about the previous 2-1/2 days, I want to give her plenty of time before furthering the discussion, unless she initiates.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518201
12/17/14 06:42 PM
12/17/14 06:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
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Card29  Offline OP
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C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
OR, is it even a convo worth having at this point, since it is about such early days? Does it fall under the umbrella of the convos that I should avoid, which uRworthy alludes to, ones where I am trying to validate her as a wife? I feel like what I just talked about is more about my perspective, not about me trying to convince her on her perspective.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518235
12/17/14 07:54 PM
12/17/14 07:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,337
U
uRworthy Offline
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uRworthy  Offline
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Posts: 3,337
Card, I think if she really needs to talk about something, in order to work through it, that you should do so with the understanding that you have to be careful about how you respond.

As in the discussion about whether she was a good wife. That conversation really had no way of turning out well, imo. No matter what way you went with it.

So, keep those conversations short and bring it back to how she feels.

I think a lot of this she just needs to say out loud as a way of dealing with it.

Do mindful listening and validating as much as you can.

You want her to get to where she needs to be on her own in her own way.

Answer truthfully, without fingerpointing. She needs to feel heard.

I am not surprised that she is quiet. She is processing a whole lot.

Re: Card29 VII [Re: uRworthy] #2518303
12/17/14 11:52 PM
12/17/14 11:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,720
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jim0987 Offline
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Posts: 1,720
Card, I just watched a TED talk which made me think of whats happening in your situation at the moment. You might find it interesting

its by Bruce Muzik and its called The big secret nobody wants to tell


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
Re: Card29 VII [Re: jim0987] #2518325
12/18/14 01:08 AM
12/18/14 01:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
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Card29  Offline OP
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C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
Today she helped me move more stuff out of the house, no serious talks like yesterday. In fact she acted like nothing is wrong. There's no way she has processed it all already, right? I am a mess tonight. I love this house, I already miss it. I miss my family that I haven't had in 6 months, really a year if you count her being completely consumed with school and work last winter and spring. I pray and hope and we are able to heal and reconcile someday, but I don't have high hopes for that chance at the moment. Early in this process, I think I was sad for the past that I was losing. Now I'm much more upset about the potential future with one intact family that is probably lost. I know that shouldn't be my focus, but it's hard not to. I'm kind of glad I'm out of beer so I can't turn to a bottle tonight.

Jim, thanks for the recommendation. I'll check that out. Have you watched Brene Brown's the Power of Vulnerability?


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518336
12/18/14 02:31 AM
12/18/14 02:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,337
U
uRworthy Offline
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uRworthy  Offline
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U
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,337
You know, C, while your confession had a huge impact on her (and no, she didnt process it yet), I know it must have had one on you.

Owning up to a secret that was kept for that long and seeing how it affected her has to be weighing on you.

Add moving and the holidays and I am not surprised you are sad. So, go easy on yourself right now.

The thing of it is...you dont want to go back to that marriage. That was not healthy for either of you.

This journey was bound to happen. Your choice to do the work speaks volumes about who you are.

There is always hope as long as you hold onto it. You get to choose when there isnt any.

So, be kind to yourself right now. You have dealt with a lot of emotional stuff the last few days.

No one knows what the future holds. You need to continue of your path of becoming your best you.

Leave her to her journey. Enjoy your child and sort things out.

You will get through all of this and come out the other side.

Believe it.

Re: Card29 VII [Re: uRworthy] #2518338
12/18/14 02:52 AM
12/18/14 02:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
C
Card29 Offline OP
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Card29  Offline OP
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C
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 898
Thank you. I definitely do not want to go back to the old marriage. That's kind of what has me even more anxious now...here is a detached look at how my mind has been spinning the last couple of days:

I can clearly see some the roots of our problems, I can see that they're fixable, I'm doing everything I can to fix my "bad roots", every expert and veteran who studies marital problems says our particular issues are permanently fixable, she wants affection, I want affection, she wants what is best for D2, she wants us to be together as a family on Christmas Day and at church because that would be good for D2...all of that should add up to wanting to at least try to reconcile, right? So when she shows that she still is not interested in reconciling, I'm devastated.

Just trying to survive this housing transition and go from there.


Me 30, STBX 30
D3
M 8 years
BD 6/3/14
S 7/26/14
Off-and-on. PA since BD. Possibly "off" since Winter 2015?
Light Switch/I'm Over Her 12/31/14
D finalized 1/10/16
Re: Card29 VII [Re: Card29] #2518350
12/18/14 03:36 AM
12/18/14 03:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,337
U
uRworthy Offline
Member
uRworthy  Offline
Member
U
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,337
I can clearly see some the roots of our problems, I can see that they're fixable, I'm doing everything I can to fix my "bad roots", every expert and veteran who studies marital problems says our particular issues are permanently fixable, she wants affection, I want affection, she wants what is best for D2, she wants us to be together as a family on Christmas Day and at church because that would be good for D2...all of that should add up to wanting to at least try to reconcile, right? So when she shows that she still is not interested in reconciling, I'm devastated.

Just because you can clearly see some of the roots of your problems, doesnt mean that she can, right? I mean, she just go the news of what you had been doing for years. Surely you didnt expect her to go, oh ok, no problem, we can just forget all of that and start new.

Maybe right now she doesnt think they are fixable. Maybe she needs to do this before she can. Maybe she is still reeling from the info and is trying to sort it out. Who knows?

You sure did tie all of that up with a nice bow, but, it isnt that easy, Card. I know you know that. Those problems run deep.

Doesnt mean she wont feel that way one day. It is just how she feels right now.

Doesnt mean you shouldnt continue on your path of healing and figuring out you.

Consistent actions, sincere words, and giving space is what she needs.

Worrying has no affect on the outcome. But moving forward, letting go and making changes may.

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