Jim0987 #7 - rebuilding but can't tell what it is

[jim0987]

I’ve spent a lot of the day dwelling on stuff (my family are rubbish for GAL distraction) and doing a bit of a stocktake. As my previous thread was over 90 posts i thought i’d start a new one.

The previous thread is here

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2513250#Post2513250

Recap on my situation
At the beginning of September my W and I had very large disagreement which started with her being upset and me pushing her very hard and very unfairly about why she always seem to shut me out. The end result of this was that she said she doesn’t love me and doesn’t want to be together anymore. Since then she has been in a separate bedrooms but we are still in the same house with our 2 children aged 3.5 and 1.5.

My wife wants a divorce and is planning on moving out as soon as the purchase of her new house goes through. There is a draft separation agreement in place under which I will buy out her half of the equity in the property.

I subsequently discovered, through less than noble means, that my wife had slept with a guy at her work place about a week after BD. At the same time i found out that she had wanted to sleep with him for a while but felt she had to break up with me first as she didn’t want to cheat on me. Most of this information came from a conversation she had with her poisonous friend (PF) which also revealed that:
- My wife regretted marrying me and that she knew she was making a mistake on our wedding day
- That she is not attracted to me in the slightest and that she feels sick to think she has had sex with me
- That she thinks i’m ‘a lying, manipulative $hit’
- The only good thing to have come from our relationship is the kids
- That i am ‘an emotionally abusive bully’ and that i ‘drove a wedge’ between her and her family
- That she has made arrangements to file for divorce the day after she moves out (fault divorce blaming me)

Since BD, my wifes OM situation has been a bit of a saga.
- She had a couple of one night things with OM1 but he wasn’t interested in anything more, W continued to pursue
- W went out seeking a ONS with someone ‘random’ – don’t know if she was successful
- W met with an ex (OM2) to see if there was anything there, spent the night and then bought lingerie for the return visit a week later. I think this was just a booty call
- OM1 has decided he does want more. They spent Tuesday night (9/12/14) together and are spending this weekend at his place in London. This has massively improved W’s general mood

She continues to deny there being any other men though her lies are flimsy at best. She mistrusts me and some of that mistrust is justified.

Since BD my wife has been quite cold and distant. In the first few weeks she was upset and drank heavily though this has tailed off significantly. She is uncomfortable being around me and the kids and has described me playing with the kids as ‘sickly parenting mode’. The open hostility has tailed off though she has been cold, distant and resolute throughout. There has been limited contact between us about anything other than the kids though i have had a few relationship conversations with her. I’ll cover that off separately. If i initiate contact about something important (lawyers, kids etc.) she doesn’t respond, however if i take actions that concern her then tell her about it I get an immediate response. When we are in the same house she will shut herself in her room as soon as the kids are in bed, unless I’m going out.

Each morning she comes into my bedroom and has a cup of coffee on the bed next to me while we get the kids up. The conversation is usually polite though of late has been friendly and chatty. This is reflective of her improved mood. I can often make her smile and laugh in these chats.

I’m doing ok with most of the 37 rules but my biggest issue is learning to STFU.

What was wrong in our marriage?
Lots wrong in our marriage, some of it specific incidents others more general patterns of behaviour – in any case things haven’t been good for over 3 years. At the same time i still believe that fundamentally, if we were to work through the key issues we could have a very happy life together. I won’t look to rehash all that I’ve said about this before and go through the specifics of every incident. I’ve also said a few times what my wife says she thinks was wrong in our marriage.

This time I’m going to go with what i think was wrong (in no particular order).
- We are both conflict avoiders which meant issues weren’t dealt with, they were instead festered upon and turned into resentments. Issues were only bought up by either side in a highly charged emotional state.
- There were a couple of significant incidents where my W was emotionally very hurt by me which i don’t believe she forgave me for
- My wife felt I let her down a number of times when she needed me. Sometimes this was because I didn’t understand what she wanted/needed me to do. Other times its because i thought i knew better
- I always make everything about me
- I thought we had agreement on certain decisions where my wife felt bullied into it
- I made sarcastic remarks which I thought were little jokes but in practice hurt and upset my wife
- If my wife asked my opinion she would do then do the opposite or tell me that my opinion was wrong.
- My wife resisted/controlled physical affection (hugs, kisses etc.) so that they only occurred when and how she wanted. This made me feel rejected and so i withdrew. I developed some odd reactions – if i initiated, I immediately withdrew apologising and feeling guilty for violating a physical touch boundary. My wife sometimes told me to stop being stupid and other times complained when I touched her.
- Our sex life was very stunted and entirely controlled by my wife. she had said was due to her post childbirth body confidence issues but i now believe was due to the damage in our emotional connection. Either way this made me anxious and affected quality as well as frequency
- I gave my wife lots of space and time to deal with her upset and confidence issues as i thought this was the right thing to do, this was interpreted as unsupportive and uncaring
- I took things literally when i should have read between the lines
- Several times i did things to help my wife when she struggled with childcare though i now realise we followed the drama triangle (rescuer,persecuter,victim) to the letter.
- If i felt rejected, ignored or frustrated i sulked
- We both had a victim mindset and were therefore defensive
- We both used covert contracts
- I made lots of comments negatively comparing myself to others and implying my wife wanted someone else, although this was due to my own issues my wife took that as me not trusting her
- There was very limited ‘dating’ between us to keep the relationship alive due to difficulties with going out (lack of acceptable babysitters, wife always tired).

I’ve identified a lot of things about me that i need to change and improve which has a lot to do with how I process emotions, read social situations and think of myself. Certainly I seem to be a co-dependent, low self esteem, socially anxious, egotistical ‘nice-guy’ although based on some of what has come up about me it seems credible that I may also have Aspergers and/or ADD (looking into this with my doctor and my mum told me today she always thought I might)

So what’s next?
Well I need to continue the work on me and there is a lot of work. The low self worth runs really deep and makes me very insecure. Being betrayed and rejected by my wife certainly hasn’t helped.

My wife is moving out at some point but I’m not sure when – I could chase this through my solicitors in order to not seem like I’m obstructing but at the same time DR seems to say make them do all the chasing. When she does move we will both have VERY tight finances as opposed to are relatively healthy shared finances at the moment

The affair with OM1 is only just getting going properly now (after casual encounters and false starts) and given that they known each other well for a while and have had this slow considered start to their relationship I seriously doubt it will be a short lived thing. And that also means that i need to prepare myself for when he is introduced to my kids

I think I’m coming to the conclusion that if there is to be reconciliation it won’t be this side of 2016 given all the other stuff that has to be overcome and it won’t be before the divorce is finalised. I still want that but it’s just not realistic. Which really makes me question am I prepared to spend 18 months or more pining for someone who doesn’t want me (that’s more than half the length of our marriage) or should I just accept I’m to be divorced and move on with my life. If we are meant to get back together then we will, if we aren’t then I will still be a better version of me for whatever, whoever comes next.

All of which leads me to the most pressing decision i need to make

Should I file for divorce or not?
Under UK law there is a 2 year wait before a no fault divorce can take place. Prior to that it has to be because of unreasonable behaviour (such as abuse) or adultery by one of the parties. This can be contested but there is no point due to the massive cost and in most cases the same end result – divorce.

Finalising the divorce is beneficial as until then financial claims/issues cannot be fully resolved and if we are to lead separate lives this protects us both (though technically i think she has more to lose by not finalising).

I know my wife intended to pursue a fault divorce accusing me of emotional abuse as soon as the house purchase goes through and i’m really uncomfortable their being a piece of legal paperwork that says this. Lets say in 15 year my kids ask – well there is now a piece of paper that ‘proves’ daddy was a bully because he admitted it.

By filling first it puts the fault on her and either her adultery or the requirements are sufficiently woolly that i could cite unreasonable behaviour – this protects me more in the long term but obviously isn’t going to be received very well by my W. Not really keeping the way home smooth.

So my options are
1) Trust she won’t file before the 2 year no fault deadline
2) File first
3) Wait for her to file and accept fault
4) Wait for her to file and contest (massively expensive)
5) Talk to her about it (and ignore all her other current dishonesty)

I’ve got a week or so to make this decision I think so I’ll keep mulling it over.

[Little]

Do you want to save your M? Do not file if you do. Do not move out. You need to work hard on those 180s and change the way you interact with W.

[jim0987]

Just to check. With regard to the OM - do I basically pretend he doesn't exist? My W doesn't talk about him at all.

[jim0987]

Good morning all

So the weekend was my weekend with the kids

Saturday
went to visit my mum and my brother. took the kids as they havent seen my mum since august (lots of reasons for this). I found it a difficult day for a bunch of reasons and a lot of that was about looking at the dynamics in my family and how they have shaped me.

in amongst that was this gem from my mum, when talking about whether i might have aspergers or something in that territory
'i didnt tell i loved you because it always seem to make you uncomfortable'

Its always felt like joviality within my family has had to come from me and when i'm not in a great place its just sullen, and my mood was definitely affected by my W's romantic getaway in london.

kids had an ok day all things considered though perhaps a bit too much TV as it stopped them stripping my mums christmas tree

Wife got home late saturday night which was unexpected, but it meant she was home for the kids swimming. I'm glad she was back for it.

Sunday
Got the kids up and had a delicious smoked salmon breakfast
Wife took S1 swimming, D3 couldnt go as she has developed an ear infection (she gets these a lot)so instead D3 and I made a roast beef with all the trimmings and decorated the christmas cake (what it lacks in neat is made up for in glitter).

Wife didnt have lunch with us (i offered but it made no difference to my plan) spent the afternoon out christmas shopping and measuring up her new house. generally starting to sort herself for the move. which meant i had time just me and the kids - its nice but not as nice as family time, i miss that.

when she got home i was having fun with the kids and playing nicely.

She was in a bad mood all day and then started complaining she didnt feel well so went to have a lie down. I gave the kids a bath and they giggled their heads off (normal for them) and put them to bed.

Wife said good night to the kids then went into her room. we saw each other a couple of times (passed in the kitchen or on the landing) but she didnt say a word to me.

she still seemed to be in a bad mood this morning (certainly compared to the back end of last week) and completely ignored me as she left for work.

now i have an IC appointment then off to quite an important meeting. then kickboxing tonight - last before christmas

[Mozza]

With regards to OM: "Don't talk about OM" is what I read from the vets on these boards. That's also what I do. It seems to diminish you and give them importance when you mention them. "You feed what you emphasize."

[jim0987]

So I’ve had a load of time sat on trains today and i know i should have been thinking about pretty much anything else but none the less ended up dwelling on my situation. And in particular setting stuck on the thought of how my wife has decided that life with me is so awful a prospect.

After failing to stop the thinking I’ve decide to try and channel it into more an evaluation of how I’m doing in the image i present at home. This is obviously my take as i cannot say what my wife sees or how she chooses to interpret it.

So positive behaviour she is seeing from me is
- I’m really hands on and very engaged with both my kids. And most of the time I have a plan to do something with them which is usually something very family orientated.
- I now just deal with the domestic stuff and do whatever needs doing without complaint. If she is doing things for the household then I offer to help.
- I’m doing a lot more exercise (running, kickboxing and Squash).
- I’ve been going out at weekends and some weeknights to do things –shes not asked where though i have mentioned bits during general conversation.
- I spend a lot more time on my phone – which may not be a good thing
- I have dropped the hurtful sarcastic comments (which previously i never realised were hurtful despite my W telling me they were - I didnt get it)
- I am acknowledging rather than defensive when my wife corrects. (this is a good 180 for me)
- For the most part I act happy around her, like I’m just getting on with my life.
- We communicate well about issues relating to the kids
- I’m showing and expressing more gratitude
- I’ve expressed concern when she seems upset
- I’ve tried (don’t know how successfully) to seem not bothered by whatever her plans are, I have tried to limit questions to what I need to know to manage expectations (will you be home for bedtime? Are you back tonight or tomorrow?). Ive been ok at this i think. though occassionally i will say something like 'its none of my business' which i think undoes good work.
- I’ve made one mention of OM1 (early October) and One mention of OM2 (the day before she went to see him the first time). She hasnt denied OM recently (because i havent asked) but at the same time lies about her whereabouts when she is seeing him.
- I have not called her out on her lies and act as if they are the truth
- I have shared with her some of the good news from work and other issues
- I’m being chatty and friendly when she is around but on general mundane stuff or things I like. Validating when she talks about things and being a more attentive listener. She mostly avoids me but when we are in the same room i talk as i would to friends and colleagues as silence feels like i’m sulking.
- When she leaves to do anything else or asks if i can watch the kids i give an upbeat and positive response as though it makes no difference to me (again a 180)
- I much more relaxed about small stuff that doesn’t really matter

Things/behaviours that are not so good
- I’ve pointed out that I’m much more relaxed about things that used to both me
- I haven’t got my curiosity under control. I’m always scanning for hints as to what she has been up to and she definitely picks up on this
- I cant always hide my sadness, particularly if she mentions the separation/divorce and Christmas (doing better at this being momentary though)
- I think i have given her too many compliments when I’ve noticed new dresses/shoes/haircut etc.
- I still cant look at her without seeing how stunning she is – particularly first thing in the morning when she is dishevelled without any make up on. That’s oddly when i find her most attractive. She cant not see that look in my eye.
- Too many comments slip into what I’m saying or doing to make some kind of cheap point or test a perceived bit of dishonesty
- I still allow my concerns and fears to influence my comments. It would be too subtle for most people but she will have noticed

A lot of the other 180s that I would need to do are dependent on the situation coming up these are things like emotionally being there for her, proving my trust, Enthusiastically agreeing decisions jointly. Equally for each of these my wife would need to give me the opportunity.

[jim0987]

OK that hasnt helped my negative thinking at all so now i'm venting

I keep on about all of this stuff but the core of it all is that neither of us were doing anywhere near enough to sustain our marriage and blamed the other one. My insecurities, her 'depression', my failure on some big events, her anxieties etc. etc. its all factors but none of it was insurmountable if we had just worked together and had some fun.

we both got bored but where as I was 'waiting it out' and thinking about how to make it better in the future (rather than making it better now) she decided to get her happiness elsewhere.

I cant actually see the route by which she decides to build a new marriage with me.

The only possibility would be that she gets so miserable that she sees no alternative but i just dont see that happening with the extra guilt free freedom she now gets because i have the kids half the week.

either way its not going to happen while she pursues a relationship with OM1 and there is basicaly nothing i can do about that. And in all likelihood he is a decent and smart guy and so why wouldnt he make a good partner for my wife. And the whole time im standing for my M, my W will barely give me another thought (and the only ones at the moment are negative)

I was near OM1s office today (legitimate business) and found myself wondering if there was anything i could do/say to make him back away from my W. decided there was probably nothing sensible without it reflecting far worse on me.

I'm working on me and slowly but surely im making me a better version of myself. I doing better at connecting with people and much much better at just being ok with little things that dont really matter. I'm getting a much better understanding of where a lot of my inner nonsense comes from and with the right help i know i can reduce that down.

I also have a much MUCH better understanding of how i should have been in our M and how to be the kind of partner my W wanted and deserved. The problem is that i cant do this second part unless my wife is willing to give me the chance and no matter how good I become I cant see why she would.

This royally blows.

[Hoju]

Your W may or may not ever be willing to come back and give things another try, You don't control her or this decision so don't bother trying.

What can you do? Continue to become a better person. Continue to reflect on what went wrong and how you can improve. Continue to be the best damn father to your young ones.

Why would she want to come back? Nothing that has happend in your R matters anymore because you aren't him, you're jim 2.0 now and forever with or without your W. Continue to make these changes for you and your W will notice. Not to mention you are the father of her kids.

Also something very simple my DB coach said to me when I was asking why on earth would she ever want to come back. He simply said "No one wants to get divorced, no one grows up thinking oh boy i can't wait to get married and then divorced". It's just something very simple that stuck with me.

Your W is lost, she needs time and space to work through her own issues. Don't worry about OM, no relationship is perfect and once the honeymoon phase is over your W will realize this.

[jim0987]

OK so i think my mood today is that im starting to believe the timeline for this (if there is to be any reconcilliation) and i'm rallying against that and the associated powerlessness.

I'm realising my W's newly rejuvinated relationship with OM1 is likely to be long term and i'm doubting my ability to stand for that long, or how i will know when to call it quits

I fear that i will waste more of my life on a futile effort, even though i know many of the changes are about improving me.

I fear that i will never meet anyone who can hold a candle to my wife and that even if i did they wouldnt want me.

I fear that i will be replaced in my kids minds as daddy (SIL encourages this with her son by her XH and her new husband)

I also realise that my W and I had reduced to a good coparenting relationship but there was next to no love shown between us, we had withdrawn from each other far too far. The only pursuit was weird control and pressure on my part even though i thought i was giving space, and this has been the way of things for 3 years. So i fear that there is no chance my W would ever want to come back regardless of what changes i make or how miserable she gets

And finally i fear that actually she is much happier without me, and that i truly was never good enough for her. her reaction, her new found interest in life and the fact she left me for another man all suggest thats true

all in all i'm on quite the pity party today. Sorry

[Little]

I keep on about all of this stuff but the core of it all is that neither of us were doing anywhere near enough to sustain our marriage and blamed the other one. My insecurities, her 'depression', my failure on some big events, her anxieties etc. etc. its all factors but none of it was insurmountable if we had just worked together and had some fun.

I think this is the crux with a lot of LBS's troubles, in that it's easy to say "If only soandso would realize how easy it is to fix if we both put the effort in!"

And it is easy if you both put the effort in; but hind sight is 20/20 and WAS just wants to escape. Which WE can't change. As much as yes, it blows.