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UpperCu Offline OP
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Sorry for the confusion. I have been back and forth, but I've solidified in my mind what my boundary is. No contact is where I draw the line. If she crosses that line, then I plan to proceed with legal separation.

Yesterday afternoon I asked W if she had time to discuss our relationship this week. She responded 7 hours later (after I was already asleep) asking what time. I responded with a couple times that worked when I woke up at 5 this morning. She never responded, but I saw her at home when I took lunch today. She sounded groggy and hung over and was in her bath robe still (at 1:30pm).

She asked what I wanted to talk about and we jumped right into conversation. It wasn't heated, but she restated her feelings of not wanting to be married, wanting freedom and independence (ironic when she is still fully financially dependent on me and has been unable to find a job). She explained she was frustrated that so many others (her own family and friends mostly) are focused on the affair as if that is the problem to address when to her the real issues she is facing are her desires to be free, unmarried, independent, etc. I acknowledged those were real desires she has, and that they were also STRONG feelings for her. I agreed that having two people choosing to be together is crucial for an R to exist. She asked about what I thought about the R and I said I think we are not living like a married couple since we rarely talk and rarely see each other. I told her I wanted to discuss finances further (we tabled that talk a week or two ago) and I asked if we could set a time in about a week to discuss finances after a big deadline for her school work.

She wanted to talk about finances right now, so we did. I told her I appreciate her respecting my wishes to honor our marital bed by not sleeping in it if she is not committed to our marriage, and for respecting my request to open her own bank account to hold her student loan funds that I disagreed with her taking out. I told her although I disagreed with her getting a $10k loan I respect that as an adult she had the right to make those types of decisions. I brought up another request I had - for her to stop using my credit card (it's in my name but she is an authorized user). She's been racking up shopping and alcohol bills on it. I made sure to not react to any single purchase, but waited to bring it up when I had time to think about my approach.

She apologized for using the credit card and said she was just doing what she thought we always did, put some things in the card and pay it off when we can (not true... and last week she was bragging to her friend about how she knew she shouldn't have bought $150 boots right now but DIDNT CARE!). The "old" me would have been pissed and given her the reaction she was probably looking for.

I also brought up my stance on the no contact boundary. She has a presentation in 10 days where she will likely run into the OM. I asked if she had talked to him and she swore she had no contact since DDay apart from a group message sent to others who worked on her project. I told her I understood no contact was nearly impossible since she has such a small field and is bound to run into him at a conference or meeting at some point in her career. I told her I understood and agreed it was really difficult, but reminded her I didn't want this and told her that I can't see how our relationship will last if nothing changes, and if she is working in the same context as when the affair occurred. She said she sees my point, but cannot and will not give up her career. I've never asked for her to give up her career, but in her narrow sighted mind can only imagine working for one organization (there are actually quite a few other options available to her which she is not pursuing at this time). She said she knows it was stupid to have an affair when she was married and with someone she works with. I told her that no contact is critical to me and as it concerns our marriage, that I could not see how it would work if a third person is still in the picture. The hard work of rebuilding trust we would go through if we reconcile would be impossible if she still sees him.

She seemed close to tears when I left to go back to work.

I feel at peace and am interested to see her response to my reaffirmed boundaries.

Headed to a football game tonight with a buddy. Thank God for GALing.


UpperCut
Me: 28 W: 25
Married: 4 yrs Together: 7 yrs
Dday: 9/14 (W ends affair & comes home)
S: 12/14 (W restarted affair 1/15; moved near OM 2/15)
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Quote:
Thanks Sandi. That is a very good differentiation to make.

What are some signs that would indicate changes? Can any of you veterans share from your own experience?


People can make a change out of an act of their own free will. Going this route is harder, IMHO, b/c your feelings may not support the action. For example, we may attend church today b/c we believe it is the right thing to do. However, our emotions may screaming to do something else. We either will act from our will or our feelings.

It is so much easier when the heart and the action are in tune. When there has been true change in the heart.....the action will follow. Usually there is a smooth flow to the actions b/c it is not forced.

When I decided to stay in my M, it was strictly out of doing the right thing. My heart was not in it. If my heart had changed, I believe my H could have seen it in my eyes, my smile, my actions, etc. He could have heard it in my voice. It would have had a smooth, natural flow. But as it was, I had to act from my "will" instead of my heart.

As far as "signs" go, I believe a good sign is if she has remorse. As long as she has an "attitude"......and is not humble, then there really has been no change. Could she fake it? I suppose, but why would she? And it would not be long before you saw through it, b/c an unrepentant heart is hard to disguise for any length of time.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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UpperCu Offline OP
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Thanks for the insight Sandi.

This weekend we talked several times and my W told me she is just waiting for me to retaliate and start hating her. I told her that she was my friend first, that we had a good friendship before we ever started to date. It was actually an "awkward" part about how our relationship started out...

Our first kiss felt to me like I was kissing my sister because we were such good friends! She was also very adamant about not wanting to be called my "girlfriend" at the time since she didn't want to seem like she belonged to me. I wasn't in a rush to get serious, as I had been burned in the past by previous breakups, so I agreed that was fine. She eventually was the one who wanted to know where we stood and suggested we let others know we were officially together. She assured me it would be many years before she would ever consider marriage (once again I had no reason to hurry so I let her set the pace there). She of course was the one to continue to bring up the topic of M and I listened and thought about the idea. After we were dating for a few months I told her I loved her, she looked at me like I was nuts, but several weeks later she came to me crying one night professing she loved me too. After 2 1/2 years of dating I proposed, which was followed by a one year engagement.

When we talked this weekend she was very open about her feelings and said she felt like it would hurt me since they are such negative feelings about me and our R. I assured her I wanted to know how she really felt, good and bad. She said it was surprising to hear me say she was my friend above everything. She didn't expect me to have that reaction. She said in all the blogs she reads, the aftermath of an A is much messier and hateful.

I'm feeling hurt right now as I hold out in limbo, but trying to keep it together. W had IC this morning and I have it this evening. I haven't heard from her in a couple days.

Please keep me in your prayers!


UpperCut
Me: 28 W: 25
Married: 4 yrs Together: 7 yrs
Dday: 9/14 (W ends affair & comes home)
S: 12/14 (W restarted affair 1/15; moved near OM 2/15)
No kids
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My IC went well the other day, in my opinion. Same counselor is seeing W and I for IC. He did reveal that nothing had changed for my W, and expressed concern for her, that she doesn't have a clue what she is doing and throwing away. He had positive things to say about me and how I've handled the sitch. He even said he would be flipping her the bird if it was him. I am sure much of that is part of his attempt to build me up and steer me to a happy place. I told him I am committed for the R long term, regardless if the ship appears to be sinking. I told him I am not OK with her continuing this A or others though.

My core boundary is NC between W and OM.

My intel has revealed that W finally got a job... She hasn't told me yet, but we haven't talked or crossed paths since she got it. Preparing myself for that convo, as I feel like she will see the job as "the sh!t hitting the fan" and is probably expecting me to freak out about losing her.

I think it's great she got a job and can now contribute; although it is now more likely she will want to move out and push for separation so she can taste her independence and freedom... It is painful to think about, but like Starsky said early on, she will need to know what it's like without me in her life before she can decide to stay or go.

I'm going to do my best to show support and encouragement.

This weekend she will be at an out of town presentation and will likely cross paths with the OM. She invited a girlfriend to join her, which gives me one tiny ounce of hope she won't be rolling around with OM. Not sure what to think about that yet... It's out of her control if he shows up, but the fact she knows he might be there, to me, is offensive. It's probably going to be a rough weekend.


UpperCut
Me: 28 W: 25
Married: 4 yrs Together: 7 yrs
Dday: 9/14 (W ends affair & comes home)
S: 12/14 (W restarted affair 1/15; moved near OM 2/15)
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Originally Posted By: UpperCu


My intel has revealed that W finally got a job... She hasn't told me yet, but we haven't talked or crossed paths since she got it. Preparing myself for that convo, as I feel like she will see the job as "the sh!t hitting the fan" and is probably expecting me to freak out about losing her.

I think it's great she got a job and can now contribute; although it is now more likely she will want to move out and push for separation so she can taste her independence and freedom... It is painful to think about, but like Starsky said early on, she will need to know what it's like without me in her life before she can decide to stay or go.

I'm going to do my best to show support and encouragement.


I think that's smart.

This is one of the things I love about good intel (I'm a huge fan, even though most here are firmly in the "NO SNOOPING!" camp). It gives you the opportunity to "see around the corner," as it were, and prepare for your responses. So rather than go into your old, "chit-hitting-the-fan"/reactionary mode, you now have the opportunity to do a confident 180: "I think that's great! They're (the company) lucky to have you -- I think you'll do great there." (or some such)


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Convo about W's new job went fine this afternoon. I showed her I was supportive and excited for her achievement. She was all smiles and I left the convo before she did, I think it was a positive interaction overall.

We talked this evening and she grilled me on how I'm REALLY feeling. She said this whole situation has been nothing like ALL the blogs she reads. I'm supposed to be retaliating and freaking out. At one point she was nearly in tears as she apologized for doing this to me, for wasting my time with M, and sorry that I will be attached to all this for the rest of my life. Obviously I'm seeing major mood swings, she hasn't been blaming me or "spewing" constantly but she seems shocked that I'm not hateful, mean, or telling her what to do like the rest of her family and friends... She said she isn't sure if I really care about her or if I'm just trying to win her back, but either way she appreciates how I've been.

W's mom text me today saying she is praying for us and me especially, voiced her concerns about W being so lost. In a nice way I told her W needs some space to sort things through for herself right now (MIL has been hounding W to change every day) and I encouraged her not to worry, that W is her usual smart and spunky self and that I support her pursuits of independence and responsibility in whatever role I am to her, as a friend or husband. W asked to read the convo and I let her, she seemed annoyed at her mom for meddling behind her back...

W also told me that in her session the IC (MC scheduled separate sessions for each of us this week) said that I'm just in "a bubble" right now, that he sees this all the time. As if I'm about to lose it and implode when the chit-hits-the-fan. I told her he basically said the same thing about her... LOL. It's like our MC is just saying whatever we want to hear so we both think we're in the right. Seems like W is giving up on counseling. I've got another session scheduled with this guy.

What do you all think - Time for a new counselor?

W is def still secretly looking up OM daily, attempting to plan a visit and my theory is she is monitoring if OM and his girlfriend are going to break up so she can make a move. That or she is on guard in case he or she starts talking... Either way, she totally plays down any feelings towards the OM, which is obviously BS. She keeps saying "I only want to leave our M to be independent and free, this has nothing to do with OM" HA! Physical Affair=Zero Residual Feelings? Not buying it.

W also wanted to talk more about the "next step" in our R. I was vague saying I do not know what will happen. She was clear that she still wants a D and went on and on about how much of a waste of time and money our R, wedding, wedding ring, etc. were. My spew jacket got dirty for a few minutes there. She said IC was advising she seek mediation, not a D attorney.

Another day of living with the Affair Brain down, wish me luck tomorrow.


UpperCut
Me: 28 W: 25
Married: 4 yrs Together: 7 yrs
Dday: 9/14 (W ends affair & comes home)
S: 12/14 (W restarted affair 1/15; moved near OM 2/15)
No kids
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"...how much of a waste of time and money our R, wedding, wedding ring, etc. were."

Wow.

I think I would have had to go for a walk about this time.

Your strong. Keep it up.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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She is all over the place. At one point in the same convo she said I'm the perfect man for her, and that she will always know she at least had one true love. She also laughed that someday she will probably be stalking me and my happy new family... Its hard to be mad or hurt when none of it is even logical.


UpperCut
Me: 28 W: 25
Married: 4 yrs Together: 7 yrs
Dday: 9/14 (W ends affair & comes home)
S: 12/14 (W restarted affair 1/15; moved near OM 2/15)
No kids
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,104
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Originally Posted By: UpperCu
She is all over the place. At one point in the same convo she said I'm the perfect man for her, and that she will always know she at least had one true love. She also laughed that someday she will probably be stalking me and my happy new family... Its hard to be mad or hurt when none of it is even logical.


You've got the perfect man and your true love but you're leaving?

Hmmm

This is just my unprofessional 2¢ and I'm by no means a vet, but I think your W is wrestling with some serious post coitus, affair fog, guilt. My wife is dealing with some of this too.

Stay the course. There may be hope. It might be a long road, but keep at it. Listen to Starsky's advice here and on other threads.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Sounds like there is a huge inner struggle going on there for your W - and really interesting comments about true love and perfect man.

One one level your W seems to know that she will feel huge regret about the possible loss of your R - and knows that you will find happiness with some other great person if this happens - and that her own life might pale in comparison.

On another level, she's still drawn to OM - even though he's unavailable now. It certainly sounds as though you should hang on in there.

But do try to really GAL for your own sake/sanity - what's going on for you must be really tough to live with...

Best of luck to you though...


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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