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Well, I'm piecing again - that much is clear. And things are very different than the last time around. We are moving S L O W L Y - no one is moving in and we are certainly not having sex at this point. We are going to MC and it has been great. We went to Disneyland as a family in July and San Diego over Labor Day weekend. We have had a lot of good talks, we are making progress in reestablishing intimacy and we are seeing each other daily (have been for awhile now). We make each other dinner, play with our S, all good stuff.

Backstory.....

As you may recall at the end of March/beginning of April we went to a joint counseling session with the intent of focusing on co-parenting. It ended in her telling me she was in a serious relationship with someone and about to introduce him to our S. I was crushed, devastated, and went totally dark. At that point I am pretty sure I gave up and walked away farther and faster than ever before (check my posts from around this time). No texting, no nothing....I was gone. Only communication that was necessary and about S. At that point, I believe she and the guy "David" had been dating three months - maybe four.

On June 14th, the Sunday before Fathers Day, I got an email from her basically saying that she was ready to move forward with our last remaining embryo on her own and wanted me to consider signing away my rights and responsibilities for it. Thanks to new communication skills, I lovingly, compassionately declined that offer and told her that it was something I could not do.

That pretty much opened the door to A LOT of conversation between the two of us, a lot of talks with God done by ourselves, the end of her relationship with OM, and set the stage for us to attempt piecing again. Nothing has materialized from the embryo just yet - but we both know we want it to.

In this process, she has talked about her growth while alone and what she has learned about herself, our marriage, why it failed and her contributions to that failure. I have done the same for her - and though I do not agree with some of the things she believes and feel some things are left off the list I think constituted her contributions, we are working through it well. She has spoken about not having the skills, background or working model to establish a healthy relationship. We both acknowledge (with the help of my C) that we had clear codependency issues -- hell, I didn't even know what that meant or looked like, but she (my C) was right. She (EX) has also talked about being without a voice in our marriage and not speaking up about things that mattered to her (which, BTW, ALL came the f*ck out on bomb day) and how that unknowingly sublimated into resentment - which really was the poison that killed our R. She regrets not speaking up more, not expressing her opinion, letting me drive the discussion as much as I did and so on. And, truthfully, she has a point -- all of that happened. The sad thing is that if she would have pushed back hard/harder back in the day I probably would not have taken it well and it just would have intensified into a larger conflict. We BOTH lacked communication and empathy skills with one another and I was a tad narcissistic (my C says that I was more along the lines of the "self absorbed" side of that scale....I wasn't a sociopath).

If you add all of that up...toss in THREE years of infertility and related treatments, being new parents, and a short list of other dysfunctional matters one conclusion snaps into clear focus. We were doomed.

So where are we now?

I mentioned in the post that got wiped out in the "great board purge of 14" that when someone once said "piecing is where the hard work begins" I scoffed at that notion because I didn't know what could be harder than what I was going through? Well, piecing ain't easy....but we are working through it. We both still harbor bad memories from the divorce and before and we are working on building back trust....it requires a lot of work and selflessness and I have to practice new skills...so does she, but I am doing it. She is emphatic about not wanting to go back to our old habits or personas that resulted in so much tumult in our lives. We are learned who the new person is and trying to trust and understand that person. How we communicate and how we like to be communicated to has changed and we have to navigate that sea. On the "affection front" we are holding hands when we are out or driving and I give her hour-long back rubs (I don't ask for them, not my thing) - but we are building back the basics of physical touch. As I noted before, my IC told me that women need to feel emotionally safe and secure before they become physical or sexual....while men need to feel accepted physically and/or sexually before they become emotional or vulnerable...so true. We are getting there. I sent her a flirty/borderline racy text last night basically saying I was really turned on by a skirt she was wearing earlier in the day and that it made her rear look perfect. She accepted the compliment and thanked me, but said try saying things verbally to her and not by text. Lesson learned.

Where am I failing/struggling?

People, I am having a hard, hard, hard, hard time moving past this David guy -- and before the 2x4 come flying at my head I know that it is male ego and little to nothing else. I don't like that he met my son, I could go on - but it doesn't matter I guess. Every now and then at her condo I see 1 or 2 little evidentiary pieces of what was probably their sex life and I get that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. What have I done wrong? I will tell you. I looked at the pictures on her phone without her knowledge and found pictures of the two of them together. It gave him a face in my head...not sure if that was a smart thing to do. In my weaker moments, despite small pieces of evidence to the contrary my head goes to a place where I feel as if she is just with me because she wants another baby...I confronted her on that (lovingly) and we talked through it. But still, at times I feel like it not for the embryo she would still be with that guy -- not sure if that is true or not. Her mom recently told me that her "time knowing David ran it's course" and that she "wanted a future". I need to try to breath and accept that and extinguish my ego.

On the extremely petty side of things (but possibly relatable to men), one thing bothers me. When she moved back to the house in the spring of 2012 I acknowledged that one of my faults was the fact that I never made her feel wanted physically -- I was not good at that communicated and infertility, IUIs and IVF torpedoed or sex life. So one day, I spent over an hour at Victoria's Secret, spending hundreds of dollars buying her new "things". I spread them out on the bed for her with a note telling her how attractive and sexy I thought she was and that I would never let her forget it again. A few weeks later she moved back out. Where does the petty come in? She rarely if ever wore anything of the things that I bought her for me/us....but I am SURE in the six months she was with the other guy he pretty much saw all of it. I know, I know, I know....get over it - and I will....but it just makes me sick to my stomach sometimes that I bought him such a nice gift that I intended for us....that I bought out of love. Part of me hopes that she burns all of it in the trash. I will now brace myself and my ego for the 2x4s.

Other than that, I am doing OK. I am putting her and her needs first and living the life that has bloomed in the wake of our divorce...I am being the new me and slowly but surely she is starting to notice I think....but more importantly trust it.

This happened:

The other morning I bought her a dozen and a half roses and brought them to her condo as she was getting ready for her day. Later in the day I texted her at work telling her that I bought them for her because I woke up that morning just wanting to love her. Her reply? "Thanks Chris. Each day I think I heal from our past a little more. I look forward to moving forward on this journey."

That was about as positive as I could expect.

So...that is most of it for now. I have done another stupid thing or two, pretty much all just snooping because I have trust issues still (just being honest) and want to see if something is being hidden from me. Still, we are doing well...son is doing well....and my family, well, that's another post.

More later.

Crimson....awww hell, we're all friends...you can call me Chris if you want to.

Last edited by Crimson; 09/24/14 08:22 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Crimson
Well, I'm piecing again - that much is clear. And things are very different than the last time around. We are moving S L O W L Y - no one is moving in and we are certainly not having sex at this point. We are going to MC and it has been great. We went to Disneyland as a family in July and San Diego over Labor Day weekend. We have had a lot of good talks, we are making progress in reestablishing intimacy and we are seeing each other daily (have been for awhile now). We make each other dinner, play with our S, all good stuff.

Backstory.....

As you may recall at the end of March/beginning of April we went to a joint counseling session with the intent of focusing on co-parenting. It ended in her telling me she was in a serious relationship with someone and about to introduce him to our S. I was crushed, devastated, and went totally dark. At that point I am pretty sure I gave up and walked away farther and faster than ever before (check my posts from around this time). No texting, no nothing....I was gone. Only communication that was necessary and about S. At that point, I believe she and the guy "David" had been dating three months - maybe four.

On June 14th, the Sunday before Fathers Day, I got an email from her basically saying that she was ready to move forward with our last remaining embryo on her own and wanted me to consider signing away my rights and responsibilities for it. Thanks to new communication skills, I lovingly, compassionately declined that offer and told her that it was something I could not do.

That pretty much opened the door to A LOT of conversation between the two of us, a lot of talks with God done by ourselves, the end of her relationship with OM, and set the stage for us to attempt piecing again. Nothing has materialized from the embryo just yet - but we both know we want it to.


well, of course my first fear is that the main reason she's back is b/c she's very much interested in that embryo...so I'd need to know why SHE thinks she and David broke up, to dissipate those feelings. Is that an unreasonable thing for you to want to know? (Not to me).


In this process, she has talked about her growth while alone and what she has learned about herself, our marriage, why it failed and her contributions to that failure. I have done the same for her - and though I do not agree with some of the things she believes and feel some things are left off the list I think constituted her contributions, we are working through it well.


Can you elaborate on what "Working through it well" means? How is she at "owning" her role? And I mean other than her "not telling you how she feels" pieces? I think those are pretty easy to "own", frankly. And What parts of it are what you do not agree with?


She has spoken about not having the skills, background or working model to establish a healthy relationship. We both acknowledge (with the help of my C) that we had clear codependency issues -- hell, I didn't even know what that meant or looked like, but she (my C) was right. She (EX) has also talked about being without a voice in our marriage and not speaking up about things that mattered to her (which, BTW, ALL came the f*ck out on bomb day) and how that unknowingly sublimated into resentment - which really was the poison that killed our R. She regrets not speaking up more, not expressing her opinion, letting me drive the discussion as much as I did and so on. And, truthfully, she has a point -- all of that happened.

Well that^^ is decent and important to see. But what about HER other stuff? Like the passive aggressive or the setting you up for failure and or testing you or any other things she did, other than not speaking up?

To me, the "not speaking up" piece is more like telling a bully you wish you had defended yourself faster, and then acting as if you have "owned" your role,

when in fact you are clearly putting yourself in a position of moral superiority, b/c it's clear to most people who measure (and I DO sense she still is measuring, sorry) that you are on the losing end of the meter stick.

Does that make sense? You don't have to agree but do you know what I'm saying?



The sad thing is that if she would have pushed back hard/harder back in the day I probably would not have taken it well and it just would have intensified into a larger conflict. We BOTH lacked communication and empathy skills with one another and I was a tad narcissistic (my C says that I was more along the lines of the "self absorbed" side of that scale....I wasn't a sociopath).

If you add all of that up...toss in THREE years of infertility and related treatments, being new parents, and a short list of other dysfunctional matters one conclusion snaps into clear focus. We were doomed.

So where are we now?

I mentioned in the post that got wiped out in the "great board purge of 14" that when someone once said "piecing is where the hard work begins" I scoffed at that notion because I didn't know what could be harder than what I was going through? Well, piecing ain't easy....but we are working through it.

We both still harbor bad memories from the divorce and before and we are working on building back trust....it requires a lot of work and selflessness and I have to practice new skills...so does she, but I am doing it.

Does she own anything about her approach to the divorce or the suspicions she has about you and being greedy? OR are you avoiding that for now? (It will come up eventually so I would not forever ignore that)....and How is HER family handling all this?


She is emphatic about not wanting to go back to our old habits or personas that resulted in so much tumult in our lives. We are learned who the new person is and trying to trust and understand that person.

Sounds good. Does she have any thoughts about what SHE'D like to avoid repeating herself? IOW, what flaw of hers does she most want to work on?


How we communicate and how we like to be communicated to has changed and we have to navigate that sea.

Fair enough. Been there, done that.



On the "affection front" we are holding hands when we are out or driving and I give her hour-long back rubs (I don't ask for them, not my thing) - but we are building back the basics of physical touch. As I noted before, my IC told me that women need to feel emotionally safe and secure before they become physical or sexual....while men need to feel accepted physically and/or sexually before they become emotional or vulnerable...so true. We are getting there.


How does SHE feel about that, if you know? Does she seem attracted to YOU enough for you?


I sent her a flirty/borderline racy text last night basically saying I was really turned on by a skirt she was wearing earlier in the day and that it made her rear look perfect. She accepted the compliment and thanked me, but said try saying things verbally to her and not by text. Lesson learned.

Where am I failing/struggling?

People, I am having a hard, hard, hard, hard time moving past this David guy -- and before the 2x4 come flying at my head I know that it is male ego and little to nothing else. I don't like that he met my son, I could go on - but it doesn't matter I guess.

FWIW, your son will NOT remember him. Seriously. And If he does, it'll be of little import. Like meeting a new neighbor, at most. Don't even go there. Just silly to think that way.

As for the intimacy issue, If she had GREAT sex with him, (And is there any other kind??---Answer: Yes there is another kind of sex: It's called mediocre sex & it's mostly with new unfamiliar partners...)

and IF that sex mattered a lot to her AND if she did not think she could do that with you,

don't you think you would know that?



Every now and then at her condo I see 1 or 2 little evidentiary pieces of what was probably their sex life and I get that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. What have I done wrong? I will tell you.

For one, you forgot the STOP SIGN image to shove in your head every time one of those sickening thoughts enters your brain.



I looked at the pictures on her phone without her knowledge and found pictures of the two of them together.


Crimson...okay here, I am sliding my arm in and reaching thru the computer and...

slapping you silly TWACK!!!

There! Stop being a goof. YOU LIKE PAIN?? Stop being a weirdo looking thru her phone and "cutting your heart" with a knife and then saying "Ouch!, that hurts".... Okay, I think I made my point...


It gave him a face in my head...not sure if that was a smart thing to do.


Seriously? You're "not sure if it was a smart thing to do"??? That's funny...


In my weaker moments, despite small pieces of evidence to the contrary my head goes to a place where I feel as if she is just with me because she wants another baby...I confronted her on that (lovingly) and we talked through it.


How did she express herself? Were you reassured she's not just dating you for the baby? You basically said "it's an all or nothing package" right?

She HAS to have YOU if she wants the baby from that embryo AND she can't just get another embryo with someone else? (Why not?)

And why can't she just have the baby and then leave you again, but this time with more child support? Do you think she'd have ever called you or come around if you had signed away the embryo?

Crimson, YOU are the one who needs the most reassurance here, NOT her. Let's be real clear about this. I am.



But still, at times I feel like it not for the embryo she would still be with that guy -- not sure if that is true or not.

that^^ would be and IS my main concern.


Her mom recently told me that her "time knowing David ran it's course" and that she "wanted a future". I need to try to breath and accept that and extinguish my ego.

It's NOT all the ego talking here^^. It's also amazing timing. You say "no" to the embryo question and suddenly she IS interested in you....yeah, you'd be an idiot not to wonder. That's why I'm asking you how SHE is reassuring you that it isn't that way. She said way back when, that she wanted the embryo but was NOT sure she wanted to be a couple with you.

What has changed about that, if anything, and why?



On the extremely petty side of things (but possibly relatable to men), one thing bothers me. When she moved back to the house in the spring of 2012 I acknowledged that one of my faults was the fact that I never made her feel wanted physically -- I was not good at that communicated and infertility, IUIs and IVF torpedoed or sex life. So one day, I spent over an hour at Victoria's Secret, spending hundreds of dollars buying her new "things". I spread them out on the bed for her with a note telling her how attractive and sexy I thought she was and that I would never let her forget it again.

How did she respond at the time you gave those to her? Were you there when she saw them, to gauge her reaction? I'm not sure I'd have reacted the way my h would like if he bought me some of the things I am thinking of.

He once bought me something that was way WAY too small for me, I couldn't decide if he was hinting that I needed to lose weight, or complimenting me on how good I already looked (so I CHOSE to assume the latter).

I also realized one thing for sure, my h cannot guess at women's sizes well. ...but I digress.


A few weeks later she moved back out. Where does the petty come in? She rarely if ever wore anything of the things that I bought her for me/us....but I am SURE in the six months she was with the other guy he pretty much saw all of it.

and how do you know this for "SURE"?? Let alone that he "saw all of it"?? Come on Chris...

Plus, dear God, I'd have to really know a guy super well to wear those things with him AND if MY h had gotten it for me, there's no way it would not cross my mind, WHILE I was wearing it.

So you can be sure that IF it happened as you think, you were on her mind --wrecking her time with him, (so there.)



I know, I know, I know....get over it - and I will....but it just makes me sick to my stomach sometimes that I bought him such a nice gift that I intended for us....that I bought out of love. Part of me hopes that she burns all of it in the trash. I will now brace myself and my ego for the 2x4s.

2 x 4's Already given. And you know, down the road (not now, not yet) you can buy her new things...Plus you'll be weird with her if she does wear those "Old" things, right?

Even though you are NOT at all "SURE" "she wore it all for him"...you are doing some lovely harm to yourself now for sure. Put the Samarai sword away, Crimson!


Other than that, I am doing OK. I am putting her and her needs first and living the life that has bloomed in the wake of our divorce...I am being the new me and slowly but surely she is starting to notice I think....but more importantly trust it.

This happened:

The other morning I bought her a dozen and a half roses and brought them to her condo as she was getting ready for her day. Later in the day I texted her at work telling her that I bought them for her because I woke up that morning just wanting to love her. Her reply? "Thanks Chris. Each day I think I heal from our past a little more. I look forward to moving forward on this journey."

That was about as positive as I could expect.

well, I think you did expect more. What was it? I'm being sincere. You are not too thrilled with the reminder of her pain? Fair enough. And what about YOUR pain? How she treated you during the divorce was not as well as you treated her. That's a fact. But then I suppose if we were to get our scorecards out, the ones we all threw away (but sometimes go back and get out of the trash) she'd say she was ahead in the marriage and she MIGHT be right

but in the divorce? She'd lose. All I'm saying is I need to hear her own 2 things. 1) that she grossly misjudged you in the divorce proceedings and impugned your integrity or let her dad, for which I would need to hear a retraction.

AND my other concern, already touched on, is the miraculous timing of her "interest" in a R with you. Coming so soon/along with your refusal to release the embryo, is suspect. I'd need a lot of reassurance on that issue to even consider really moving forward.

Ask her outright if you two would even be talking, if it were not for the embryo. IF you are not ok with that, run it by your IC.

So...that is most of it for now. I have done another stupid thing or two, pretty much all just snooping because I have trust issues still (just being honest) and want to see if something is being hidden from me. Still, we are doing well...son is doing well....and my family, well, that's another post.

More later.

Crimson....awww hell, we're all friends...you can call me Chris if you want to.


I don't really get the snooping. Do you think she is still seeing "David" the OM?

Are you worried she'll go back to David after she has the embryo implanted?

I mean, I can see the fear about her embryo concerns for sure. Like maybe she is using you.

But the snooping won't read her mind on that, so what is it you are actually looking for?
Plus you are risking a lot b/c she'll freak out if she finds out you are snooping, won't she?

I could see you blowing this, right there. I'd be very careful about the GOAL of snooping and I'd assess the downside risk carefully NOW before you do anymore of that.

Just my .02

((( )))



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
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Doesn't the snooping only fuel negative emotions? Jealousy, anger, hurt. Leave it alone. I get the trust thing. It has to be earned. But you probably only hurt yourself with this curiosity.


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Crimson

I'm sorry if my last post to you was so brutal that it made you scurry for the hills. COME BACK....it's safe now. Maybe your wife is finally on the same page as you and all will be what it never was before...so it's okay you can return

The water is warm... cool


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,326
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Crimson Offline OP
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Oh geez, it wasn't that....things have been out of control busy. I wanted to find a time when I could sit an write enough - moments have been fleeting. XW has been back at the house a lot and I have committed to myself to NOT bury myself in my laptop when she is there with S.....not going back THERE again. smile

The points that you brought up are quite valid, 25, I can shirk any of them. And I assure you they either have been or will be covered in counseling -- we are still going. The affection is getting better, we sleep in the same bed again -- and so on.

One thing gets to me, though, 25. You may be singlehandedly responsible for me finally determining that in order for me to move forward there are elements of the past that I need to let go of. Specifically, perceptually reality differences between me and XW....i.e., how she saw me during the divorce and how I actually was. What of that stuff, if any, is worth revisiting at this point? We both saw the same car wreck and we both described it differently. I cannot invalidate her reality any more than she can invalidate mine.

The snooping is an unhealthy compulsion born out of a feeling of not know what is going on (real or imagined) - I am trying to put a collar on it and told my IC that I had done it. She quickly lit me up for violating her boundaries....and she was/is right.

More later.....

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Originally Posted By: Crimson
Oh geez, it wasn't that....things have been out of control busy. I wanted to find a time when I could sit an write enough - moments have been fleeting. XW has been back at the house a lot and I have committed to myself to NOT bury myself in my laptop when she is there with S.....not going back THERE again. smile

The points that you brought up are quite valid, 25, I can shirk any of them. And I assure you they either have been or will be covered in counseling -- we are still going. The affection is getting better, we sleep in the same bed again -- and so on.

One thing gets to me, though, 25. You may be singlehandedly responsible for me finally determining that in order for me to move forward there are elements of the past that I need to let go of. Specifically, perceptually reality differences between me and XW....i.e., how she saw me during the divorce and how I actually was.


My original point, if I recall it correctly, is that we can't always recall things the same way as our spouse.

SOME folks around here really want that; i.e. identical recall of events. I don't think it's realistic or necessary and for ME and MY H, not feasible. We saw things thru very different lenses.

I felt that seeing the past the same was Not as valuable as seeing our future the same way.


That's not to say that we should ignore harmful behaviors b/c of course the fear is, they'll be repeated! So there's a line in there somewhere we each have to find.

I THINK the issue wii be, What is it that you feel so afraid of repeating (or having her repeat) that you have to know she sees it similarly enough, to you,

versus, what things are simply not that crucial? I can't answer except for the obvious ones, like affairs or no sex, or significant deceit.

I qualify deceit that way for 2 reasons. One is for the "white lies" that are NOT important or said to give someone an advantage but are said to save someone's feelings. Don't get bogged down in those (IMO).

The other "Deceit" is the kind our priest mentioned when we married (one of TWO useful things he told us...) which was that "of course deceit in a marriage isn't desirable, but don't give your spouse cause for deceit.

EXAMPLE: If a wife dents the car & tells her h, and her h just loses his mind over it, yells and goes off on her,

the next time she gets a fender bender, or anything like that, OF COURSE she's going to want to get it repaired and Not tell her h... IN that scenario, the priest said "the h is as guilty of wrongdoing as much if not more, as the wife...don't over react to the mishaps of life."

RE: Your behavior during the divorce, that's slightly different. From what I recall, it was pretty honorable, once the dust settled. Hers, not so much.

Yes, I'm biased but I'm also trying really hard not to be...

her family may have played too big a role in her view. Maybe you can get a tiny bit around this by mentioning how her father saw your behavior and how hurt you were b/c you KNOW FOR A FACT

you tried your hardest to be more than fair...to behave better than you would have before b/c you DID change. You were dong your best to be a man of strength and honor, and I believe with all my heart that thou usually (no, not always but you're human and I believe MOSTLY )

you put her needs and your son's ahead of yours at every turn, short of being a doormat (and even that "no doormat" choice, was partly b/c you wanted her to still see you in a good light!!)

MAYBE by discussing that, (i.e. the father's views) you can indirectly get to asking her if her views of you in that area, remain the same.

I do think if my h believed certain negative things about me that were not true, well, there are things he could believe about me that might be unacceptable for me.

I can't say off the top of my head what they are, but they do exist.
Dang, I'm not clearing this up for you much, am I?




What of that stuff, if any, is worth revisiting at this point? We both saw the same car wreck and we both described it differently. I cannot invalidate her reality any more than she can invalidate mine.

Not sure yet. I'll ponder that some more.

For now, I would say You CAN explore some things, without dragging them out or badgering or belaboring it to death, AND without making sure you see things identically. It is okay to see things differently.

However You must be allowed to "present another theory" as in, your side. As in your perspective and frankly, I think you'll regret not mentioning some of the hurtful things HE said and seemed to believe and of course your underlying fear that she believes those things...

you are allowed to say "may I mention how it appeared to ME?" But you are not allowed to insist she agree with you. In any case I would need time to process new information and so would you and so would she.

Of course, let's not forget your parents have uttered a few things that were not so helpful to the cause, and some of those things might not be valid either. And some might be.

Parents do tend to mean well. So if she says "But my dad was just thinking about ME", you are nuts not to mention the reciprocal reality that your parents were too.

I think the key here is how the forgiveness work is going for her, for you and for both families.
Don't ignore that.

The snooping is an unhealthy compulsion born out of a feeling of not know what is going on (real or imagined) - I am trying to put a collar on it and told my IC that I had done it. She quickly lit me up for violating her boundaries....and she was/is right.

More later.....


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Crimson Offline OP
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I am profoundly aware of the number of people that are scattered across the boards in search of good news or good developments in a story that was once beyond hopeless.

As noted, XW and I have been gradually getting closer over the span of the last 3 months or so. Lots of time together as a family, joint counseling, and many, many, many long late night talks. It has been much slower than our last attempt – and that has been a big difference maker for both of us. We have both grown a lot, changed a lot and are basically not the same people that divorced – which is a good thing.

I have applied no pressure for anything…relationship…living together….I have just been content to let things organically evolve while just living differently. Well, to cut to the chase she has been living at the house for the last two weeks and is moving stuff from her place back home. All of this was with no prompting or suggestion from me. In fact, when she got a little anxious about moving some of her clothes the other day while I was there I just softly told her she didn’t have to move anything and could take all the time she wants – or even move the stuff that was already there back. She worked through her emotions and continues to move.

So anyone who has been following my situation probably remembers the saga of the bed I bought her when she first moved out of the house to her own place. Today, she gave it away to a family along with the bunk bed that our son had at her place. Basically that means home is now our house together – unless they are going to sleep on the floor. J

There was a major breakthrough this week and the affection from her just opened up a ton. It was as if big chunks of the wall around her heart began to fall. It was out of the blue and the last thing I expected – even she commented on how she just felt “different”. Still, there is a lot to keep working on – and she started HER IC today. My IC, her IC and our joint IC are all in the same practice so it is literally a “village” approach!

That is all for now. Things are going well. We are all heading up to a cabin in the mountains tomorrow for the weekend. Off-grid bliss.

That’s all I’ve got for now.

Crimson

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Awesome



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Originally Posted By: Crimson
I am profoundly aware of the number of people that are scattered across the boards in search of good news or good developments in a story that was once beyond hopeless.

As noted, XW and I have been gradually getting closer over the span of the last 3 months or so. Lots of time together as a family, joint counseling, and many, many, many long late night talks. It has been much slower than our last attempt – and that has been a big difference maker for both of us. We have both grown a lot, changed a lot and are basically not the same people that divorced – which is a good thing.

I have applied no pressure for anything…relationship…living together….I have just been content to let things organically evolve while just living differently. Well, to cut to the chase she has been living at the house for the last two weeks and is moving stuff from her place back home. All of this was with no prompting or suggestion from me. In fact, when she got a little anxious about moving some of her clothes the other day while I was there I just softly told her she didn’t have to move anything and could take all the time she wants – or even move the stuff that was already there back. She worked through her emotions and continues to move.

So anyone who has been following my situation probably remembers the saga of the bed I bought her when she first moved out of the house to her own place. Today, she gave it away to a family along with the bunk bed that our son had at her place. Basically that means home is now our house together – unless they are going to sleep on the floor. J

There was a major breakthrough this week and the affection from her just opened up a ton. It was as if big chunks of the wall around her heart began to fall. It was out of the blue and the last thing I expected – even she commented on how she just felt “different”. Still, there is a lot to keep working on – and she started HER IC today. My IC, her IC and our joint IC are all in the same practice so it is literally a “village” approach!

That is all for now. Things are going well. We are all heading up to a cabin in the mountains tomorrow for the weekend. Off-grid bliss.

That’s all I’ve got for now.

Crimson


Great news, Crim!

Your approach to getting back together was much like ours, slowly as the time seemed right. No pressure, no guilt.

We were going to the mtns this month (our anniversary is Oct 20th) but decided to go to hot springs in NM. Can't wait!

Let me know about the cabin, we're always looking for a good getaway up north. Have a wonderful time! I'm really so, so happy for you but especially for S.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Crimson Offline OP
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Good morning, bug! So I will try to remember to report back on the condition of the cabins - but Google AZ Cabin Fever - they're up in Heber Overgaard outside of Payson. They have a pretty easy-to-navigate website and great rates - one BR cabins for like $99/night. We are very much looking forward to getting out of town.

25 - going back to your post for a minute, I know to my core that I was trying to be kind during the D process. Mostly, for better or for worse, because I didn't want to make my situation WORSE and push her away even faster. Was she as equally kind? No. Did she see ANYTHING I did as kindness? Nah, I don't think so - but I have to make a modicum of peace with that. I talked to my IC about it this week and she basically said that she (XW) was in a very, very major state of fear at that point.....afraid of losing S, afraid of not being able to survive on her own -- and when you are in that place you are basically in "survival mode" and your ability to objectively process the actions of others is severely compromised....ESPECIALLY the actions of the person at the center of the storm - in this case, yours truly. I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but at the time she was kind of like a cornered animal - scared to death and willing to fight if it meant her life was on the line. Unfortunately, I think I was viewed as the aggressor in that situation - even though I know I was not. As a result, anything that I did or said that went against what she wanted was viewed as an act of aggression or contempt. For example, fighting for equal time with our S -- she has since told me that she was afraid I was going to try to take him away from her...and since my dad and sister are attorneys (federal prosecutors) I had the "horsepower" to do it. Soooo - she fought like hell for custody. NONE of what she feared was real - but in that "cornered animal" state I am sure it looked very real to her.

Anyhooo, what do I do with that? The time is not yet here for me to bring all of that to the table -- but it is coming. We are doing very, very, very well with talking and working out what are feelings are/were -- so we will get there. I guess what I was trying to say was that there are certain things that I am going to have to let go of to some degree. Many of them I already have. I'll say it again - because of you I am pretty much in a place where I understand that agreeing on the past is not as important as agreeing on the future.

More later.

Crimson

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