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Train,
Glad to hear that things are progressing! So many on here don't follow advice, especially when it feels counter intuitive. You did follow the advice of folks on here, like Starsky, that do understand what it takes to get your spouse back and it seems to have paid off smile.

Some will say that not every marriage is salvageable, and perhaps they are right. I, however, look at it differently. Like Kenny Rogers said: "Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser." I think it's how you play the hand you've got that makes all the difference. Your hand has been well played thus far!

Please realize that getting your H back is *only* half the battle. Now you both must put in some very hard work to create the marriage that you BOTH want. You will have to have some very frank discussions together about what you expect from a spouse and life partner. Then you must work on making each other happy each and every day. The book HNHN will give you both a good primer.

I hope that your spirits are in a much better place after last week!
HS

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Hey, HS!

I was just checking in to write a little about the weekend when I saw your note. And it is SO in-line with what I logged on to journal about ...

This. is. hard. Who knew that re-attracting H was only half the battle? Well, obviously YOU guys did. But whew! I'm still over here, slinging. I mean, I KNEW it would be hard even if he came back. But, well, this is really d@mn hard, if I haven't mentioned that already.

I find myself happy one moment and feeling hopeless the next. Friday night, H was in an angry mood re: his second-shift job. He went to work anyway, but he was upset because it's not going the way the business owner - H's friend - promised. I listened to H and asked if he wanted company at work that night. He said I wouldn't want to be around him in the mood he was in but said: "Tell ya what, don't tell me whether or not you're coming." Basically, he was saying, surprise me. So I did, remembering something he told me the night of BD: "I just want a girl who will hang out in the shop with me." I showed up at his work with a six-pack of his favorite beer and his favorite energy drink, just to try to cheer him up. I sat around and chatted with him while he worked. His spirits were clearly lifted, and he told me so.

He initiated a talk about some of the details of the A ... and about the night I left flowers at the hotel for him and OW. He talked of why he was so angry toward me all the time: mainly because he was mad at himself. He told me how he knew he made the wrong choice the very night I asked him to leave. He said he stayed in his car that night. When I started talking about some of MY feelings, though, he became agitated. I realized what was happening: it was our "old" way of communicating. I jump on one thing - and it wasn't even important AT ALL - and just shove it down his throat until he chokes on it. Usually, he just gets really mad and shuts down. This time, I told him I was leaving until we could calm ourselves and then we could consider continuing our conversation later.

He texted me almost immediately, saying he was sorry, he loves me and that he wished I hadn't left.

I couldn't text back immediately because I was still driving home. By the time I was home, he was freaking out, asking if I wasn't speaking with him anymore. And *I* had calmed down enough to realize that the topic I had raised at the shop was not solution-oriented AT ALL. It did NOTHING to help us reach our goals. So I wrote him back once home and apologized. I tried to explain that while he sees me as strong and resilient, that I am going to need his patience and understanding as we both try to work through the pain and confusion. I also suggested we schedule "affair-free" nights to just relax and enjoy one another. He agreed to that and asked me out on a date for the following night (Saturday). I recommended that to be an "affair-free" night. smile

We had a ball. He took me out to eat at a nice restaurant. He *did* bring up the A, but he asked me if I felt comfortable listening to something he had to say. I told him I was fine with it as long as we didn't allow it to turn into an argument ... for that night. Some things he has said sting - hard. But I try to listen and really HEAR what he's saying. I've learned a lot in the past few months about how differently we communicate. I'm trying to adjust my way, and he seems to (perhaps unknowingly) be reciprocating. We are starting to have some of those frank discussions. It's somewhat uncomfortable, and I have to keep reminding myself to stay solution-focused. It's so easy to run down a rabbit hole with pointless questions/discussions that are NOT going to get us closer to a goal of moving forward together. We both hope that counseling will help us work on this even more.

Yesterday, we took the kids to the mountains and had another good day.

Now, we're starting to have discussions about how to make things work from here out. We both are ready to move. There are all sorts of issues tied to that decision, including the decision to now leave D16 here to finish her last year of high-school in her district, and D17 would stay to begin college here. D16 will live with my mom, who's been a second-mom to her and her sister all their lives. D17 will likely stay with my sister, who has ALSO been like a second-mom to the girls all their lives. We have a very close-knit family. At first, I felt okay with the arrangement because the girls understood I was leaving our town to go find peace and happiness that I know I can't find here. Now that H will be going with me, I am so afraid they're going to feel I'm abandoning them for him. And I'm not. I just don't want to force such a huge change on them when they're almost legally adults. I also, though, don't want to be one more person who has abandoned them. I think they know better. But they're also very angry with H. I'm letting him clean up that mess, too. But if I stand by him, I'm so afraid my older girls are going to resent me for it. They say they will support me. But everything has changed for them, and they don't want a relationship with H. I don't know if that will ever change.

And then, there are allllll those well-meaning friends and family members. They all said they would support me, no matter what I decided. And it felt like they rallied behind me BIG TIME when H was gone. But now? Oh boy. Now, their feelings about H are coming out. They're mad as hornets. And bitter. And I get where they're coming from: They want to see me out of pain. They don't feel he deserves my forgiveness after everything he did to the kids and me. I almost feel they're attacking my choice to try to save my M and family, even though that's not what they're MEANING to do. They're mentioning it'll likely happen again. They're telling me I deserve better. (I find it almost laughable to hear such "words of disapproval" from a friend who has cheated on HER H but wasn't caught ...) It's just so frustrating! They say I'm one of the smartest people they know yet they act like I'm making a foolish decision. And then I start to have those doubts: Will H always be a cheater? Can I make it through this in tact? Will I ever be here again? Even if I am the best wife on the planet for H, will it be enough? There will be bad days and probably a bad week every now and again; will he cheat on me again?

Though, yes, my spirits are up and I feel happy, I also feel so beat down on so many levels right now. Perhaps only folks like you all can understand being in both of those places at one time??

H and I understand that the straw that broke the camel's back in our M was him having two jobs. I never had any time/conversations with him. He'd come home at midnight, plop down on the couch and say, "Wanna do it?" I'd roll my eyes and say, "no." He'd ask if I wanted to schedule a time to ML with him. I'd respond: "Do you want to schedule a time to take me out?" Ugly, vicious cycle. But that's what our relationship was reduced to. Neither of us was happy; we weren't in a living, breathing M. We want it to be different this time. But it can't be if he's continuing to work two jobs. Though I've felt that living separate while going through counseling would be beneficial, we discussed yesterday how he will continue to have to hold down two jobs if he's paying for two households (our marital home, which we still plan to vacate, AND his apartment). It would be more beneficial for our M if he could stop working two jobs. So we made a decision that he would move back into our home, essentially just in time to help me pack it up. He has e-mailed the managers of the apartment complex to end his lease. He'll have to do a buy-out, but whatever. (He also paid to have OW's phone completely severed from his account, and I will be calling to place his phone back on the family plan today.) He plans to drastically reduce his hours, or completely quit, his second-shift job to spend more time with me ... and as a family.

He has started looking for jobs in the mountains. We're going to start budgeting tonight so we know exactly how much money we will need to make wherever we go.

I'm so glad I have you guys here. You are truly pro-marriage and pro-family, and it's good to know I have a place to receive some like-minded support when I feel like I feel right now. I honestly feel like I'm fighting a hundred battles all at once.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: Train


I'm so glad I have you guys here. You are truly pro-marriage and pro-family, and it's good to know I have a place to receive some like-minded support when I feel like I feel right now. I honestly feel like I'm fighting a hundred battles all at once.



Yeah, you are. But just look at how many you're winning! grin


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Ahhhhh the virtual hug from one of my favorites.

You never disappoint, Starsky. Thank you. smile


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Train you are inspiring. Having read you since I stumbled here in feb. it gives me hope, but it's hard going up and down seeing not much in the way of progress.


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Train,

For the cherry on top of your sundae, may I suggest that the pair of you attend Retrouville as soon as you can? I think it is timely for this stage in piecing.

Don't be a stranger...come by and say "hello!" to us here. wink

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Thank you, beautiful people!

I'm still plugging along. This week has been a little crazy, with H tying up loose ends with his apartment, etc. and S7 turning 8 yesterday. Sniff, sniff.

I promise I won't be a stranger. I'm planning to stick around this time. wink

More soon; gotta go plan a last-minute surprise birthday cookout for S*8*.

smile Hugs errbody!!


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Oct 2010
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Originally Posted By: Train


I promise I won't be a stranger. I'm planning to stick around this time. wink




You'd BETTER. Because I have a particular set of skills . . . acquired over a lifetime . . . and if you do forget about us, I WILL find you, and I WILL kill you. wink grin


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Love this thread, so happy for you Train!!! smile you handled the situation with so much dignity & its really admirable.

Your doing great!


Divorce Final: Oct 2014

Your struggles today, develop strength for tomorrow...
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Because I have a particular set of skills . . . acquired over a lifetime . . . and if you do forget about us, I WILL find you, and I WILL kill you.
laugh laugh laugh Once you find me, let's sit down and have a drink first, mmmkay? laugh I adore you, sincerely, Starsky. I could never leave now. I have too many BFFs here. Lol.

Love this thread, so happy for you Train!!! you handled the situation with so much dignity & its really admirable.
Awwww, thank you so much, Upwards!!!

I swear I feel I may be taking hits in the "dignity" department recently. Lol. I am battling A LOT of demons. I guess that's to be expected. I have up days and down days. Up MOMENTS and down moments. I feel so much differently than how I felt when H came home from the 1st A in early 2006. Back then, all I wanted was my H back. I didn't think about actively changing the dynamics of our M. I didn't think about looking back ... or looking ahead.

I know that sounds like I'm rambling. And I pretty much am. My thoughts and fears are swirling around like CRAZY in there. It occurred to me yesterday that so much of what I love, my H hates. I love my home for its character and charm. He hates it because it's historic and requires too much upkeep. I love yard work and gardening. My H hates working in the yard. He wants a townhome rental with no yard work. If we do that, I'm losing my yard work and my gardening, two things I love dearly. The inside of my home looks like it stepped off a freaking Pinterest page ... I have a built-in cabinet used exclusively for my fabric ... all folded perfectly and color-coordinated. I have a custom desk for my four sewing machines in that room ... also pretty much "built-in," thanks to my H's amazing carpentry skills. I LOVE painting furniture, and I have pieces that I bought specifically for use in this house. I paint and distress and antique-stain picture frames and cover photo mat boards with cute fabric. I painted a design on my curtains, which I sewed custom for my windows. I made my own lampshades. I have artwork everywhere. Handmade goodness everywhere. I JUST finished painting my hallway/stairway light grey and was planning a "you are my sunshine" theme. H bought me a piece of sunshine-yellow furniture for it for our anniversary. If I move into a rental, not only can I not plant plants or garden the way I like, I likely won't be able to paint the inside of my "home" the way I want. Will I even be able to put holes in the walls to hang pictures? I only have a million of them! And I HATE carpet! I have hardwoods and LOVE them! Am I going to have to give them up? And what will carpet do to our family's already-terrible allergies?!? But H? The guy with the allergies? He LOVES carpet and hates hardwoods. He even likes that disgusting carpet powder crap that gives ME headaches!

And then there are my dogs. I have two boxers. They are my "security team," and my H knows why it's so important to me to have them. When he isn't home, they make me feel secure. But he doesn't like dogs; never really has. He thinks I should just be able to "get rid of them." And if I move into a rental, chances are I'll *have* to.

It seems to try to make my H happy, I'm having to get rid of SO much that makes ME happy. And it seems awfully unfair.

Then I think: But I was going to have to do that ANYWAY when H and I were living separate. Financially, he literally forced me out of my home and into a rental. But now that he's back in our marital home, it's a jagged pill. We have the money to stay here until D16 graduates next year. Would he have to continue working two jobs - the very thing that led to the breakdown of our M? Yes. But he can scale back BIG TIME on the hours he spent at his second job, and he's willing to do that. I don't know that he's 100% ready to leave that job anyway. We've struck an interesting balance with that: he goes in a few times a week, and I'll go spend time with him there at least once a week. It seems to work okay. But the thing is: if he quits his career for a different career, even if we squeeze our family into a small apartment, he's likely going to have to work two jobs while I'm still a SAHM. We're danged if we do and danged if we don't.

I know I want out eventually, but we've both decided we'll stay in town for D16's senior year, after she expressed that's what she wants us to do. Neither of us want her to feel we are abandoning her during such an important time of her life. (As an aside: is it "neither of us WANT her to feel we are abandoning her" ... or "neither of us WANTS her to feel ..." Omg. Do y'all see how freaking CRAZY I've become??!??? Help! laugh )

But will it be detrimental to our M to stay here when we both want to move? Should I leave this house and find a rental somewhere close by? Do I REALLY want to go through all the trouble of moving a few streets over for ONE YEAR just to get out of the house that causes friction between H and me? Can I deal with the triggers of this town for another year? If I stay in this house, at least I won't have to deal with ONE trigger ... and that is the stigma that I feel would be attached if I walk away and the house goes into foreclosure, which is where I'm currently headed.

Aaaaaaaack! There are TOO many questions and uncertainties. And I'm angry because I feel like I had made up my mind a few weeks ago, when H was still wayward. I felt good about where I was going, considering I was being forced to make the changes.

Now? H and I keep having the same conversation. It always starts with him asking, "So what are we doing?" And we end the conversation the same way we ended it the time before: with no answers.

Yesterday, I had a BAD day. Let me backtrack: A few days ago, when H was at his second-shift job, he texted me and said: "Just a heads up: my ex-GF messaged me on FB. I had friended her when I had left you. It's all good. I'll show you the conversation." Apparently, he friended her in April and sent her a message on April 28. She didn't respond until the other day. (This is the ex-GF right before me.) When H got home, he handed me his phone for me to read the exchange. They had been messaging back and forth, apologizing to each other for some of the things they had done to each other during their relationship. H was telling her that our M "has had its ups and downs." And then he called her "kid," and I put his phone down and went ape-sh!t. I was like: "Really?!? You're home from an A for a week, and you're already messaging a person of the opposite sex - and your ex-flame of three years, no less - about your M? Do you NOT FREAKING GET IT?!????" He said he'd been giving a lot of thought to our upcoming counseling sessions, and he's trying to figure out when he became the person who "escapes." He said a lot of it went back to her, so he felt that her messaging him when she did was more than coincidence. He said, in a nutshell, he needed to make peace with that before he could go on to try to discover himself. He was looking to her for answers about HIM, I guess. Still, I went to bed FUMING mad, without being able to bring myself to read the rest of the messages. (Thankfully, she lives in a different state. Is it awful that I'm being thankful for at least THAT??)

H said: "Honey, please keep going. Please see how I tell her you're my wife and I love you at the end." I couldn't do it. I wanted to puke. He apologized. I slept off most of my anger and didn't bring it up again.

So back to yesterday: for no apparent reason, I just got really, really mad. I think it's because it was Mother's Day, and I usually spend the day outside, planting plants and working in the yard. All I could do - considering I don't know if I'll be here for long - was mow the grass this Mother's Day. And I push-mowed. Meanwhile, H was mumbling under his breath - as always - about yard work, even though he's on a riding mower, holding a Corona, while I was sweating my a$s off, push-mowing. I think that's what set me off.

H and the kids had taken me out for brunch before I started working in the yard. And he planned a dinner for just the two of us last night. On the way to dinner, I came unglued. I lost my temper and let out A LOT of things that had been building up. I told H that I'm not sure if we ARE compatible, which is what HE said when he left. I told him I'm tired of feeling I have to sacrifice almost EVERYTHING that brings me happiness on what appears to be a fruitless venture for HIM to find happiness. I cried. And I talked through a beautiful dinner he had planned for me. Like, I started talking on the ride there (it was just the two of us), and I spewed so much ... and for so long ... that we completely missed dinner.

And my H sat there and listened to me. He took it like a man. For probably the first time ever. He got mad, and admitted that, but he said he was mad at himself. He told me today he is "scared and confused" after everything I had to say last night, but he said he was very happy I had finally gotten so much built-up anger off my chest.

Things were better today. We finished moving everything out of his apartment. I started calculating in my head the expense of this most recent mistake of his ... until I realized I was growing angry. And the fact is: it's spent. No point whining over it now. So I dropped that before I even said anything to H about it, and I moved on. I grilled out tonight ... I kicked myself for missing my dinner last night. (H had taken me for oysters, which are my favorite; even though he doesn't eat them, he shucks them for me once he's finished eating his own dinner. Ha.) I REALLY hate I missed it. Because I'm REALLY in the mood for them now. cry

I need to re-center. The best place to do that is here. So here I am. And I'm feeling better already. THIS is why I won't be going anywhere this time; y'all can't get rid of me THAT easily. wink

I think I need to re-read my books and pay close attention to the after-the-affair parts. I skimmed those when I read them while H was wayward because, well, who wants to read about reconciliation when it seems like a distant (im)possibility? So I need to reread HNHN and DR, at least. Probably "Not Just Friends," too.

If any of you have some insight into how you handled this delicate dance of trying to reconcile while also trying to deal with feelings of anger and confusion and frustration and - yes - sometimes hopelessness, I'd love to hear all about it. And even if you haven't reconciled, any advice on how to keep my composure and stay solution-focused in the moments I want to punch my H in the throat would be valued.

Thank you all! <3


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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