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#2391458 10/06/13 11:03 PM
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This may get a little long, so I apologize in advance.

We met online back in 01, I moved to Canada to be with him in early 2002. I was able to get a job here in the US about a year later so we moved back here to the US. We got married in 2003 in order for him to be able to stay in the US and get started working. I loved him from the first day I met him and my feelings have only grown over the years. I was 21 and he was 22 when we got married.

Over the course of the years, on the outside our relationship looked picture perfect. He would spoil me with anything I wanted, we went on lots of vacations together, and in general we had good enough fortune to be able to buy anything we wanted to within reason. We currently own a house, 3 cars, and a rental property.
He has never been the type to show emotions, EVER. I have seen this man cry one time since I've met him and that was the day my mother passed away.

He made a few friends at work, but never really got close to anyone where he could just call them up and see if they wanted to go for a beer. He has a few friends at home where he could do that, but never seemed to be able to connect with anyone like that here. I have my friends that I grew up with and I also have a sister I'm very close with. He doesn't have any siblings.


In 2010, we started looking around for ways to invest some money. I wanted to buy a house to flip and he wanted to buy a place that didn't need any work but wanted to just start renting it out and be a landlord. We ended up going with what I wanted - the flip. We bought a foreclosed house at the end of 2010 and we had to gut the thing from head to toe. I learned how to do drywall, painting, little bits of electrical and plumbing and everything in between. My husband ended up doing the bulk of the work at the house, and had to do a lot of the planning. It seemed like everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong with this house. It was a huge nightmare and there were days I just wanted to walk away from it. We ended up finishing up with the house this may and then we got it rented out starting in July.

My dad also was involved in the project and would come over and help us do some of the work. I did pay him though, but nowhere near the amount it would have cost if we hired someone to do the work. My dad is not very well off at all and struggles a lot with money. He is also very unreliable. He says he will be there at 2, and he might show up by 6 or not at all. He is also like that on holidays. Will show up late, or not at all, or will show up already having ate somewhere else. He also decided to marry a woman who is in her early 20's (he is nearing 60) and they have a child together and another one that is due in Nov. His wife has never worked a day in her life and would call me all throughout her 1st pregnancy to ask me to drive her to the doctor, hospital, stop at the store for this that and the other, and stupid me would go every single time.

My husband and I got to be in pretty close contact with one of his friends (the best man at our wedding) and his wife about 2 years ago. They live in Canada, so they would come to visit us and we would go visit with them. I was pretty close with both of them myself, we would text a lot and play video games together online a lot and we were all friends. My husband started talking via text pretty often with the friends wife. She is the type of person that is usually closer with guy friends and she is pretty close with her dad. They didn't hide the fact that they talked a lot from me or the husband and I just let it be. Over time though, I started to get suspicious and bitter. Finally around Christmas this past year, I looked through his texts. They flirted and everything but I never found any naked pics or any "I love you's" or anything like that. She had been going through a hard time with her parents and he said that he was providing her with support with that and just in other life areas. She is 10 years younger than him as well. I asked him if anything happened between them and he said that nothing did, they were just friends and I was overreacting. I looked through his texts again sometime in January and she said she was sorry for causing me to get angry at him and asked him if they should stop talking. He told her that no, they didn't have to stop talking. He also told her that I said that I never trusted him. So I left it at that, and I did say at the time that I didn't trust him and that I thought she was immature and all sorts of stuff. I did ask him a few more times over this past year if she was hitting on him or if he wanted to be with her, and if he would just tell me if he didnt want to be with me. He told me he would tell me if she tried anything with him. They were just friends and he didn't like to be told who he could be friends with. She ended up leaving her husband in January of this year and moved out. He seemed surprised by it, but she claims that he was hitting her. They are still apart now, but I'm not sure if legally divorced yet.

All through the beginning of this year and most of last year, things definitely slowed down in the bedroom department. I just took that as a sign that we were tired after working at the other house and didn't take it personally. He started to act distant and snippy with me probably around Feb or so this year. He started not to be so affectionate towards me, and he just seemed like he was hardened and not his usual happy self. When I would ask if he wanted to do something, he would just say "we'll see" or "Maybe" so it made it really hard to plan things with friends. I just thought he was feeling the stress of the house catch up with him and he never said otherwise.
Finally in April, after dinner one night he asks me if we can talk. I panic immediately and start to feel all the blood drain from my face. He says that he wrote me a letter and would like me to read it whenever I felt like I wanted to. So I read it right there with him. He said that he knew that I could tell he was acting strange and wanted to let me know why that was. He told me that he felt bitterness and resentment towards me for doing the house project we ended up doing, he said that he felt like I left him there alone and "checked out" of it. He said he felt that we had been drifting apart for a few years and ever more so after our house project. He told me that he thought my dad was on a self destructive path and wanted absolutely nothing to do with him anymore and felt that should something happen to him that his wife would run to me for help or money. He also said that he felt my sister was dragging down our relationship and that she was sort of in the same boat as my dad, she didn't have a steady job but had just finished university. He felt that her attitude was negative and that I was getting a negative attitude about things as well. He said he felt like I didn't put him first and that I was busy trying to take care of my sister and my dad all the time. He told me that he noticed my lack of caring about my appearance, and said that he wished I would wear some makeup or nicer clothes on occasion. After I read the letter, I felt hurt and picked on but I was glad that he told me how he felt. In the weeks after that, I asked him if he thought he would want to try some counseling and he agreed to it. He said that he wanted to go by himself at first and that at some later point we could try the couples counseling. I found us each a therapist and they work at the same place. They said that we could do individual counseling and then when we wanted to do couples counseling we could all 4 go together. So he started therapy at the very end of may and went every 2 weeks. I started going as well.
His behavior didn't improve and he was still acting distant and cold to me even after the letter. I started doing things to try to fix the problems such as telling my dad "No" if he asked for a favor, and in general distancing myself from their situation. I started to wear some nicer clothes and makeup when we went out on dates and things like that. I bought him a few small gifts here and there just to let him know I was thinking about him and that he meant the world to me. So, middle of June I come home to a book and another letter. The book was "codependent no more" and the letter said that he was sorry for the way he was acting, and he knew I could still tell something was wrong. He said that he couldn't help but to feel angry and bitter towards me for my wanting to do the house project and him not wanting to. He said he also blamed himself for not being more open about not wanting to do it and took responsibility for that. He also started talking about children and how he didn't think that we had a stable environment here to do that. He said that his therapist identified him as being codependent and he said that he spent most of his life doing things for others and put his wants aside for everyone else. He said he wanted to take a few days for himself and hoped that I would understand. So he got a hotel room in another part of the city but then one of his friends from canada invited him up for the weekend so he went and had a guys weekend. He told me that he loved me in both of the letters he wrote.

A few more weeks go by and he is pretty much the same, just keeping to himself and not talking much and just seeming depressed. I decide to write him a letter of my own. I tell him that I am sorry for wanting to do the project, I didn't realize that he wasn't fully into it, and I was sorry for him feeling abandoned. I told him that I also didn't like my dad's situation, but there was no way I could completely cut him from my life. I said that if he wanted to, we could move to Canada and start something different, especially if we decided on kids. I said that I was willing to do anything for us and that I took our vows seriously. About a day later, he was just like his old self, he was very affectionate towards me and seemed happier than I'd seen him in forever. His parents came down to visit a few days later (this was during the 4th of july ) and they thought everything was going well. This lasted for about 2 weeks and then like a switch, he changed again back to his depressive self. I sat him down one saturday in the middle of July and said that I was very worried about him and that I was pretty sure he was depressed. I asked him questions like what he was happy about and he replied with "not being dead" I tried to talk to him about happy childhood times and I recalled different things my sister and I did together or things I did with my mom that made me feel happy when I thought of them. The things he told me were depressing things that weren't at all happy memories from childhood. He told me that he felt like he had no emotions at all and that he felt numb to everything. He said he didn't want to do anything, didn't want to go out, do anything or make any type of plans. We had a cat that was just diagnosed with cancer and he said "I should feel something for our cat, but I just feel nothing" I called my therapist right away and told her that I was really worried about him. She in turn, called his therapist and then his therapist called him to talk about his depression.

At the end of july, I got our phone bill and saw some numbers he had been calling were apartments in another part of the city. I confronted him about it and he told me that he had been thinking of moving out and that at his latest therapy appointment, the therapist had suggested it as well. So on Aug 3 rd I laid there on the couch dripping tears as he moved out. He held me and hugged me and said that 'everything will be ok" and said that he had to be on his own for a while and that it was HIM that needed fixed. He said that he was tired of hurting everyone he loved and that he wanted to do something on his own and try to fix himself.

I asked him if he would agree to try a couples therapy session and he said he didn't think that it would help since he was the one with the issue, but that he would go and see anyway. So we went to the couples therapy on aug 7. The session was with the therapist I have been seeing individually. The therapist asked him to be honest and clear with me and asked him if he wanted me to contact him at all or not. He said that he would prefer that I didn't contact him for a month because if I did, it wouldn't allow him to really focus on his issues and he would be worried about me. I told him that if he wanted to, he could contact me at any time but I would respect his wishes and leave him be for now. The therapist said that it seemed like we were on 2 different waves right now. She made it clear to him that I knew exactly what I wanted, and that was to do anything to fix our marriage and he said that he was still not sure what it was that he wanted. He said that this was all new to him and that he didn't know if he wanted to be in the relationship or not still. The therapist said that she was surprised at how well I handled the session since it was a pretty brutal one. I was just basically in shock and I didn't know how to react. He didn't ever tell me that he was thinking of ending our relationship, he just said that he "wanted some space".


I was hoping he would realize that I really would do anything for our relationship and that if only he would have communicated to me he was unhappy, I could have worked on things earlier instead of waiting until he exploded from keeping everything in.


I ended up having the most awful month in August- had to put one of my cats down as he had stomach cancer, had another cat with a burst tumor on his toe which also turned out to be cancer. My grandmother passed away after an attempted suicide which she recovered from and then went downhill.
To top all of that off, I fell at work in the middle of aug and had some small fractures on my foot and had to be off work for a bit over a month. Just got back to work last week and my foot is still sore but healing up.

I'm used to jogging and or bikeriding and I would do that everyday at lunch to get my mind clear. When I was off work, I couldn't do any of that because of my foot.

I didn't contact him at all for the whole month of aug but on the 30th after my grandma passed away I messaged him online and just filled him in on everything that was going on. He said "I'm sorry" for the crappy things that were happening to me. He also remained pretty cold and short in the convo. I didn't message him again until the middle of sept and then again it was just a message online. We talked a bit and he said he had been doing a lot better, his anxiety had come down and he was spending some time making new friends, working out etc. He said that his therapist had noticed a change in him. He did also mention that he was thinking about things of course, and that living alone was hard but he was managing. Told me that he asked his therapist about my meeting her and she said that "it wouldn't be a good idea".

In the meantime, my therapist suggested that we try to schedule a session with his therapist and him to see where he stands on things. My therapist seems to be forcing him into a timeline to make a decision and I don't feel like that will be the right thing to do. Anyways, he ends up declining the session so I didn't have to deal with it anyways.

I got a copy of "divorce remedy" and read that sucker in about 1 day. I've started getting a life of my own - going out with friends and family. Though at the same time there are still days where I wake up and immediately have to throw up. Sometimes I just randomly burst into tears. Some days I feel like I'll be ok no matter what happens. Its the unknown which is the scariest.

Fast forward to this week, I figured I would try something different when I talked with him. I messaged him online and just chatted about regular everyday stuff. Didn't bring up anything to do with our relationship. Just talked sports, music, movies, tv etc.. He was WAY more warm to me this time around. Gave me a few smiley faces and even some haha's in there. He asked me about how my foot was doing and gave me a compliment about how he thought I could manage the department I work in better than my boss. We ended the convo with wishing each other a good night. I haven't contacted him since then.

All of my friends and family are telling me I need to give him an ultimatum and he's just stringing me along while he figures himself out. His parents continue to text me and tell me they are embarrassed by his behavior actually.
In my heart, I don't feel like pushing him for an ultimatum will do any good. He asked me for space and said he needed to be on his own for a while. I'm trying my hardest to give him space, but also want to keep in touch with him but try to keep it light natured for now.


Thanks for reading this super long post.


Me: 31 H: 32
Married 10 years, together 11
No kids
H moved out to an apt 8-3-13

Experience: That most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God, do you learn. ~C.S. Lewis
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Hi, first of all I am sorry for all you are going through. Secondly you should shorten your post so that folks will read and respond to it. I am glad you found the book Divorce Remedy. I know your friends and family mean well, but they don't always have the best advice. If your counselor is pushing you to make an ultimatum, it might be a good idea to talk to a DB coach as they will give you very specific advice on how to approach him in a way that is most likely to bring him closer and not cause a confrontation. I wish you all the best.


Karen, Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
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karen@divorcebusting.com

Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
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Follow the advise of the DB book. Give him the space he is requesting. Do not give him a ultimatum, Pressure will cause him to run.

Focus on you and your health, you are priority #1!

Read the many threads on here and you will find you are not alone and will learn so much. Sandi2's 37 rules are golden! Most of the advise may seem counter intuitive but it is your best shot at saving your relationship.

Exercise, sleep & work on becoming a spouse only a fool would leave.


H 37
WAW 32
S 4 (Autistic)
S 2
Together 11 years
Married 6
Bombshell Dec 1 2012
House sold, flying solo June 1 2013.
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Hello and welcome! Your story is not substantially different than many others here, the details are different but the overall sitch is very similar. Read other threads, especially those of people who have been here over a year. It'll give you an idea of what to expect.

You said you read DR in a day, that's fine, but you didn't absorb it all. Read it again and again. Each time you'll get something new out of it.

You were right to quit the R talks with your H. Also just put MC out of your mind, it will do absolutely no good at this stage and it may cause a lot more damage. If your C is pushing for it then you may not have a good C. Keep all talk with your H light and fluffy. Become the person you were when you first met him- independent, sexy, strong, content without him. That's what may attract him back.

Quote:
All of my friends and family are telling me I need to give him an ultimatum and he's just stringing me along while he figures himself out.


Did you read the first chapter of DR? MWD discusses this very thing. Your friends and family want you to be happy and mistakenly believe that getting rid of him will make you happy. They're hurting things instead of helping.

Quote:
In my heart, I don't feel like pushing him for an ultimatum will do any good.


It's far too early for that. Push now and he'll file for D. Back off and give him time and space.

Quote:
He asked me for space and said he needed to be on his own for a while. I'm trying my hardest to give him space, but also want to keep in touch with him but try to keep it light natured for now.


Let him initiate all contact. I know it's hard not to reach out to him, but every time you do you will set yourself farther back. Contact is what YOU want, not HIM. Honor HIS desires for now.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Sorry you have a need to be here...but this is a great place to find solid advice and encouragement!

The people on these forums are amazing!

*Deep Breath*

Hang in there!

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lostinpgh,

I read your post and am sorry you are here. That's a terrible story.

Originally Posted By: lostinpgh
I was hoping he would realize that I really would do anything for our relationship and that if only he would have communicated to me he was unhappy, I could have worked on things earlier instead of waiting until he exploded from keeping everything in.


Everyone wishes that happened in hindsight but it almost never does. Human behavior is usually to avoid conflict, so people will pave over the daily small stuff until it builds up so large that it's too late. Confronting your spouse is also risky, they can tell you they don't care, or that they are done too, or get very upset and make you feel guilty, so people will typically not drop a bomb on you until they have arranged their exit.

As AnotherStander pointed out, marriage counseling is doomed to fail if one of the participants is reluctant. You both have to want to save your marriage for that to work.

Reading your story, it seems like your H had an emotional affair with your friend's wife. Often this will start innocently, then it starts to escalate in very small steps. Each time your H thought he had it under control, that he can separate fantasy from reality, etc., but it gets addictive like a drug and eventually he's questioning where his happiness is coming from.

Then he'll start to feel guilty about what he's doing, but can't reconcile the guilt with the joy of the affair, why does doing something bad make him feel good? If he feels good, is it bad? He's a good person, why would he do something bad?

Where this inevitably leads is that they convince themselves that you pushed them to cheat, that your behavior drove them to seek solace elsewhere, and therefore the fact that they strayed is your fault and not theirs. Then, they will get angry with YOU for making them feel guilty. When I read his comments about the house, it seems he may be making it a lightning rod to justify his straying from you, it's likely less of a cause and more of a symptom.

If you then do things that make them feel MORE guilty, like pursuing them, telling them that they are hurting you or their behavior is making you sad, they just get angrier, so the more you chase, the more they distance.

I think your current course of action is the correct one -- give him space, don't pursue him. Avoid any R talks. If he had complaints about you that YOU agree need work, then work on those things for yourself.

Re-read DR and stick to the principles: GAL, 180, and Act-as-if. For now, that's all you can do.

H resents you right now, so anything you do should be measured against a yardstick of resentment. Will it make him resent you more or less? Things that will make him resent you more will be relationship talks, being sad, blaming him for your moods, appearing to be pining for him, etc. Things that will make him resent you less will be topical conversation, looking good, being happy, and appearing to live your life despite what he is or is not doing.

As AnotherStander pointed out, don't let your therapist dictate your timeline. That said, a timeline can be a useful thing to have as people generally don't want to be in limbo indefinitely. If you do create a timeline for yourself, however, keep it private and do not share it with H ever. i.e. if things are not improved by (pick a date), then you will either decide to move on, or pick another future date depending upon how you are feeling. Things would be improved if the following things are happening (x, y, z).

Good luck and keep posting!

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Thank you all so much for your replies.

I have been re-reading DR since the day I got it. I have set up some goals, and some positive things to look for. I've been hanging out with friends and family as much as they can stand me.

Accuray- You hit it spot on with what I have been thinking in my mind. When I went through his phone and confronted him about it he really seemed to be shaken up and nervous. He told me time and time again that nothing ever happened between them.
I even said it at the time that I considered it an EA. Over the years we've been together, I always said to him that if he ever cheated on me then I'd be gone. (WHY would I even bring that up I don't know?) Now that I'm actually in the situation that this may have been what happened, I already asked myself if I really would leave him because of it and I can honestly say I wouldn't. I would be willing to work through an affair. We've been married over 10 years and I would not throw that away over one mistake.
I had thought to myself that maybe he was putting some blame on me for things to shift the guilt from himself.

I have another IC session tomorrow, I'm going to tell her of my plans to just back off and let him breathe. His mom told me he's headed up to visit family and friends in Canada this weekend for the holiday. I didn't ask him anything about it nor will I.

Its so weird having been with him every day for the whole span of our marriage, save for some short trips here and there, and now its been over 2 months since I've seen his face or heard his voice.


Me: 31 H: 32
Married 10 years, together 11
No kids
H moved out to an apt 8-3-13

Experience: That most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God, do you learn. ~C.S. Lewis
Joined: Apr 2013
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lostinpgh,

You've come to the right place. AnotherStander and Accuray are two of the wisest persons on this forum...read and re-read their words!

Hang in there and keep posting.


Me:38, Wife:36
M:8
T:13
No kids
Bomb:3/10/13
W moved out:3/30/13
Started D paperwork: 10/14/13
D final: 12/30/13
To a future of love and happiness...
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That whole sleeping thing is quite a challenge! Some days I can literally feel my heart doing flips in my chest and other days I have almost a numbed feeling like "whatever happens, will happen"

I'm thinking to myself that he might go and visit with the girl who I suspect an affair with when he's visiting his hometown this weekend. I'm trying really hard to detach and just not think about it.

I just want to find happiness again, it seems like its been such a long time since I have been happy.


Me: 31 H: 32
Married 10 years, together 11
No kids
H moved out to an apt 8-3-13

Experience: That most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God, do you learn. ~C.S. Lewis
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 64
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So, my husband and I don't have any kids and there is no reason for us to really be in contact for anything.
I have mail piled up at the house for him, insurance card, a check he needs to sign etc..
He didn't tell me what his new address is, and said that he would "tell me when he's ready" and that "stalking won't help us" which I do agree with.
Well, I haven't asked for it since he left.

I was considering giving him a call and just telling him I have some mail for him and keep things light and not mention R talks at all. But, the fear of being rejected keeps scaring me back into staying dark.

When the bomb was dropped on me, I acted as any LBS would and got extremely emotional, looked pitiful, couldn't control my tears, etc etc.. So I know this is mindreading, but I have a feeling that he is avoiding talking with me because he thinks the first thing I'll do is bring up talks about our relationship and he will feel pressured again.

Its just hard to show someone that you've grown and changed if you don't speak to them at all. Neither of us ever post anything on facebook, in fact I've been avoiding it altogether.

I just feel stuck and like time is at a standstill.


Me: 31 H: 32
Married 10 years, together 11
No kids
H moved out to an apt 8-3-13

Experience: That most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God, do you learn. ~C.S. Lewis
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