Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010

We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.



On a level playing field, I would agree with you, AS. But as the formerly wayward spouse, I do believe that Denver's wife bears the greater burden here in trying to meet needs and speak LLs. Maybe that's the SSM, formerly-betrayed-husband in me, but I do think that view would also be backed up by the various infidelity authors and therapists out there.


Starsky

Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank smile You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move! smile


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010

We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.


Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank smile You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move! smile



OK, I screwed up the formatting on my previous post. Here:


On a level playing field, I would agree with you, AS. But as the formerly wayward spouse, I do believe that Denver's wife bears the greater burden here in trying to meet needs and speak LLs. Maybe that's the SSM, formerly-betrayed-husband in me, but I do think that view would also be backed up by the various infidelity authors and therapists out there.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
THIS is an important post for those in piecing and who want restored marriages, not just reconciliation....for many, the goal is to have a marriage better than ever before, and I think it's harder then, b/c you don't know what that looks like if you never had it to begin with.

For us, once upon a time our marriage was a great one. (I mean that, even now). We really put the other one first, but in a healthy way. It was so mutual and loving, it was a beautiful thing. Without that memory, there is no way I could have DBd.

And even now, I can say as much as my love has deepened for my h in many ways, DBing is a once in a life time thing for me as well....



Originally Posted By: Denver_2010
Hi LJGH2. I have not been around the boards much lately. Super busy with work, and with life. I will try to get over to your thread, but even today I only have a few minutes. Thanks for the support.

A very quick update. The last 6 weeks or so have been pretty rough for W and I. I have to admit that things slid down hill after i looked at those phone records. I had a very difficult time putting that aside and my attitude towards W reflected my difficulty.

Denver, to me, this^^ was self inflicted on your end. Sorry buddy but that's how I see it.

I won't even look at my journals from 05-07. I Can't. Why would I?

Makes me mad all over again.

Heck, If I want to re=hash the past to defend a divorce, I'll go see a "traditional marriage counselor." cool


I did what I had discussed here and told W that i was dealing with some things that had been triggered. I told her that I still have triggers, that I had to deal with them, and that I hoped that they would lessen with time.


Even though I agree with your reason for this^^^ (ie do not tell her you snooped) it is deceitful, which is what annoys you about HER PAST behavior...

W wasn't real thrilled with that answer, but she didn't tell me that. Later, when things blew up, she told me that she suspected that it had something to do with events that happened while we were separated and that she was angry that I didn't tell her what it was. I admitted a little more during that conversation, but not the specifics.

Her attitude towards me became guarded when she sensed that something was going on with me. That made me feel that she was distant and making other things in her life more of a priority than me and our M. Basically everything kind of snowballed.

Wow, lots of mind reading (negatively) on all sides...how's that working out?


Even during the past 6 weeks though, there have been ups. It hasn't been all bad. We have gone several days with things being pretty good and feeling pretty connected, a

tell us what you were doing or saying when those good times were happening. Remember, this is a solution based approach...do what works..
.

nd then we have gone through several days where things have been really distant between us.

We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing,

probably true^^^???

me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages.

Was that true, OR was it the old stuff you dug up? OR a mix?

W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her.

Um Sweetie, YOU WERE MAD AT HER!...for stuff already over& done...


I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma. My actions have a causal effect on her actions, and vice versa. It is VERY difficult to break that cycle.

start simple. What's going on when things are good? Do more of that...learn to leave some things alone...

you were NOT "ready for anything" when you snooped...and then you lied about it.

How do you feel about that now?

W left the house after the argument saying that she was going to go somewhere with one of her friends, that she wasn't going to waste her weekend arguing with me. About 10 minutes after she left, I called her and asked her if she wanted to just go to dinner and try to put the argument aside. She agreed and came back to the house. We ended up having a good night and rest of the weekend.

so what'd you learn? That's kinda what this is all about, right?


The argument was on Friday night. I have noticed that we have both been trying to "right" what we each complained about during that argument, for the past few days. I can see that W has made a conscious effort to be more physically affectionate, my love language, and I have tried to just put aside my feelings of frustration and get back to doing the things that helped me get to a point of reconciliation.

cool

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the past couple of years. Things look much different in hindsight than they do when you are in the mist of them. I have many thoughts that I want to share with everyone here. Especially those that are just beginning this process.

I hope to come back and expand on this more, but the bottom line is that what I went through during my S is a once in a lifetime deal for me.


I hear you and I get it. There's a thread w/my name on it (someone else started it) and on it, I mention RECENT issues coming up for my kids. My youngest, really, d15.

She resents h and all along this DB road, I somehow assumed MY forgiveness work and MY changes in the marriage

would filter down to the kids. It's as if I thought they had gone to Retrovaille with us...but they did not. H unexpectedly got deployed to the Middle East (returned at Christmas). He saw & treated some unspeakably horrible things so that's also an issue for us... Nonetheless

h is trying to be/feel less alienated within our family. And, It is WORK. But we are trying to show these young people a legacy of commitment, forgiveness and redemption...and to enjoy it ourselves.

or so I tell myself.


While I am happier than I can put into words that I have a second chance to make my M work, I don't believe that I would go through what I did again.

Yep. I get that.


I see now that I was not the sole cause of the breakdown in our M. I put W on a pedestal during my sitch, and I think that I really minimized her flaws. I love her to death, but she is not perfect and she is difficult to get along with at times. I TOTALLY put those things out of my mind during my S.

I think a lot of LBSers do this^^^. They come here and tell us their marriage was "totally fine until..." or "all was great except for OP"...but in reality there are flaws that come when you combine two flawed people and put them into a committed R for life...



I'm NOT recanting anything that I came to acknowledge about myself, nor the problems taht I caused. I'm just saying that I see how things came to be the way that they were. There is no question that W and I would slip back into that misery if both of us were not committed to NOT having that happen. And it is WORK. It really, really is. No matter how much change you make, no matter how much self discovery you do, it is work. I'm glad that I went through it, I'm glad that I made that choice, and I'm happy that I have that second chance. But I wouldn't do it again. It was too hard and too painful. And I was too hard on myself.

Just some thoughts that I have looking back.

Denver


gotcha


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,219
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,219
I think the LBS has a tremendous amount of residual pain from the feeling of being deserted/abandoned. I don't know if it ever heals completely?

I would never go through it again, either.


M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,144
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,144
Denver, I have to say, I'm surprised you guys don't have transparency at this point. I would have thought that would have been one of your requirements to start piecing.


M:44 W:42
M:15
S:19, D:16, S:14, D:12, S:6
BD: 2/14/11
D Final: 6/25/13
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 951
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 951
Starsky....remember...Denver's wife felt just as left behind and abandoned as Denver did

in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more

they were both wronged and both did wrong

it is not tit for tat

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Originally Posted By: figgeroni
Starsky....remember...Denver's wife felt just as left behind and abandoned as Denver did

in order to come back together and work at it together...it can not come from a point of whom owes whom more

they were both wronged and both did wrong

it is not tit for tat



Sorry, we will just have to flat-out disagree here, Figg. And again, this is not just my opinion -- MCs and FTs specifically trained in dealing with infidelity will tell you that there are concrete things that a formerly-wayward spouse needs to do, over a period of time, in order to regain the trust of the betrayed spouse.

I'm not saying that Denver didn't have his own contributions to the marital dysfunction, nor am I saying this is a "100/0" proposition. But it's not a "50/50" one, either, at least not for the first couple of years. A spouse who makes the destructive choice to have an affair has to earn their way back into the marriage.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
Man your posts are always so relate able to me, so thanks.

I really look forward to hearing more about you looking back in hindsight on your thoughts of wife during initial sitch. I have a degree of guilt in this department as well.


M-38
W-32
D7, S4
M-10
BD-May '12
S for 1 month-June '12
Reconcile, Piecing
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,031
D
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,031
Wow... I'm surprised that my last post got so many replies. Both here and on the newcomers board.

I do have transparency Bill. W has actually been really good about that. That has not been the problem. The transparency let me to look at old phone records from the months of our S, thinking that I could handle what I found. I was wrong. 25 is right, that was self inflicted. No doubt.

Anyway, I want to spend more time than I have to respond to everyone, so I will come back, hopefully in the next day or two.

Denver


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
W moves home 6/2012
Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015
I leave 3/2016
process of divorce
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Denver_2010

We had a huge argument on Saturday night. Both of us let loose on one another. W telling me that I was reverting to old behaviors of withdrawing, me telling W that I had been withdrawing because she wasn't making me and our M a priority and that she wasn't even trying to pay attention to my love languages. W telling me that she was being distant because of my behavior, that I don't give things time to heal because I always seem mad at her. I don't know. It's basically a "chicken or the egg" dilemma.


Regarding 5LL, the most basic principal in that book is that if you want your love tank filled, you FIRST have to fill your spouse's tank smile You state that your LL is not being filled by your W, but you also state what your reaction is to that- withdrawal. You are doing the OPPOSITE of what you need to do! It sounds clear that you both are running on empty again and both of you are reverting to old behavior- sitting back and getting more and more bitter while waiting for your spouse to come fill your love tank and wondering why they're not. So break the pattern, make the first move! smile


Have to agree with AS here. I've played that "chicken or the egg" dilemma for a looong time. I've just recently started to to try to fill W love tank first.


M-38
W-32
D7, S4
M-10
BD-May '12
S for 1 month-June '12
Reconcile, Piecing
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard