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Originally Posted By: TigWinkle
How do you find a pro-marriage counselor?


I just assumed it was the luck of the draw...I honestly never would have given "pro marriage" or "pro-self" counselors a second thought if it weren't for this situation. I wonder how many people actually change counselors for another that is a better fit for their thoughts and feelings.


Me:39, W:32
D8 and D4
M:2002
BD:8/2012
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We don't. When we started trying I discovered that I had a condition that needed a surgery. Every appointment Dr would discourage me with low percentage of whatever, that started depressing me. I heavily relied on my H for support because I didn't like sharing my medical struggle with anyone else. I didn't like how people would say "it's going to be okay" when they wouldn't know. Yup I was cynical. Anyway, so like you I always wanted him to support me and quite frankly I think it was getting too much for him. He probably felt so unloved because all I seemed to care about was to get pregnant quickly.

Somebody like your H or my H, I wouldn't read into his actions that he shows in public. Like I said my H seemed to be enjoying the sessions very much but I still saw sad faces at home when I initiated to be affectionate. I think he was really confused.


M37 H36
M8 T12 inc 3yr L-dist
7/12:H broke down
10/12:H dad D frm W4. BD soon after
1/13:H wants to leave
2/13:H gpa passed. Feels closer but H still leaving
3/13: S begins
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Quote:
Originally Posted By: TigWinkle

I was referring to what Accuray said to me about "drawing him in"


Ah, OK that makes more sense. That's not pursuit so much as "keeping the way home paved smooth and clear".

[quote]That I don't bring up him leaving...I guess I should prepare for the possibility of him leaving.


Right, I was just suggesting that mentally you prepare for that so that if and when it happens it won't be quite such a blow to you. I was not at all suggesting that you say or do anything to your H to indicate that you want him to leave. I hope I'm clear on that. Have you read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough? He compares the WAS to a bird that feels stuck in a cage. He says the LBS should not force the WAS to stay in the cage, but should instead throw the door open and tell the WAS they are free to leave. This dovetails with DR which says that we should validate the WAS's emotions, so if they say they want to leave we do not agree or disagree, but say something like "I do not want you to leave, I would prefer that you stay and work on the M with me. But I want you to be happy, and if you think that leaving will make you happy then I support your decision." This is almost word-for-word what I told my W. She did leave, and it did not bring her the happiness she expected (she told me this again just last night). Leaving rarely does. But, the point is that if we try to stop them it is just putting pressure on them and making them feel more caged in.

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If I told you things were so harmonious..we laugh, talk, he chooses to spend time with me, the boys. He isn't needing "space". We have a big enough house that we could easily NEVER see each other. Yet out of habit? I don't know why--we sit companionably every night chatting, watching tv...whatever. He has plenty of opportunities to go out, or just ignore me after the boys are in bed. He doesn't have to kiss me goodbye in the morning or goodnight or hello. Mind you nothing passionate, but he chooses to do this.


I can top that, my W and I had all of that AND we continued to ML quite passionately. But she STILL left. I know it's hard to believe based on what you're seeing, but like I said before, don't underestimate just how "done" your H is (or thinks he is).

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Why? Keep me hopeful? Keep me from getting in his face? Maybe. I dont' read too much into it, but I am not throwing myself at him.


My W is just a nice person, maybe your H is the same. So even though she was done, she still loved me and wanted to treat me nice. By the way I'm not mind-reading, this is what she told me well after she moved out when I asked her about it.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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AnotherStander

Wow...The still ML is mindblowing. There he has drawn the line..though I think he has witheld sex for years as a way to regain power...my theory. I am the sex-starved one.

H is a very nice person. My best friend who I have confided this in cannot believe he is so chipper and happy on the phone.

I am not underestimating him being DONE. He did file for divorce after all. He is serious. But his entire demeanor has changed since he did that. He was like a crazed maniac. He was cold, mean, decisive...he was leaving THAT DAY. But he is still here and he is happy. less stressed. having fun...offering to do things he doesn't have to do--go to a bat mitzvah with me...making dishes for family celebrations (my family) attending parties with me that he could easily get out of. I invite him on outings that I have planned with the boys and he happily accepts...he is not the STRESSED maniac that he was. He is calm and he likes it that way. he hates confrontation. So why confront if it will make him mad.

I am going to memorize what you told your W. I like it. We have discussed this in MC. The therapist said--what will you get out of leaving? H said he wouldn't have to deal with me that much, so it would be easier for us to be friends. That is when I stopped "dealing with him". He doesn't have to worry about me "ambushing him" with communication that makes him feel like he's going to have a heart attack (anxiety). It's all smooth sailing around here these days. We tell more knock knock jokes than talk about our relationship.

AnotherStander, do you have children? If so, did W take them with her? I know H is here because of the kids. Not sure if this is good or bad, but he is here. And I can use that time to show him that my 180s are here to stay. I have never felt better.

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stilllookingup, I am so sorry that you had problems trying to conceive, I know it can be so heartbreaking. I hope someday you will know the joy of having children. Don't give up hope. My friend is 42 and is pregnant after 4 years of trying, with serious medical problems--including cancer--with no IVF either. I myself has my son at 42! There is time and there is hope. And children may come to you through adoption, if you're open to it. My heart goes out to you.

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The thought of rehashing through all of our history yet again with a new counselor is enough to make me want to stick with the one we have. We tried three in all and he is the best. I don't get the impression he is pro-marriage or pro-feelings--he is a short-term solutions-based therapist though and that is nice.

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TW, the things your H has said I have heard so many times from my W. she doesn't want to send mixed messages, I am a great father and person, we will be great coparents, the kids will be fine, and she still kisses me goodbye (initiated by her). It is all so confusing (my thread is "confused by WAS"). Go figure. I am not sure what insight that I can provide except that I am in a similar sitch and I wish you the best. PMA is what I am really trying to work on now. But this is very hard to do because I do hold some resentment toward her. The similarities are interesting though. Good luck.


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Originally Posted By: TigWinkle

He is calm and he likes it that way. he hates confrontation. So why confront if it will make him mad.


Definitely do not confront him. No R, S, M or D talks at all! Keep things light and fluffy. If he wants to delve into more serious talks, then let him talk and you just listen and validate.

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We tell more knock knock jokes than talk about our relationship.


Good! Keep it that way for now. If he ever expresses interest in returning then the more serious convos can take place.

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AnotherStander, do you have children? If so, did W take them with her?


Yes, S10, D16 and D18. D18 is away at college. Before we S'd we sat down to talk about custody, I told W that I would honor whatever arrangement the kids wanted but I would like to try 50-50 custody for 2 months before letting them decide. She was surprised, she expected me to fight her over the kids and try to get full custody. I told her that I think she's a fantastic mother (true) and that I saw no reason to try and keep the kids from her. She was actually quite happy with the offer, so there was no fighting about it at all. We're still doing 50-50 on a week-by-week basis. The kids have both said they'd much rather have us all back under one roof, but as long we're S they're OK with 50-50.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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oh wow your post gave me instant hope! I was actually in the middle of ivf when my H reached his breaking point. We were arguing and my hormones must have been out of control with the meds. After his blowup, we made up and continued ivf half way: successful frozen embryos. Leading up to D, I have to admit I was always thinking about when Iíd able to put the embryos back in while my H was still so sad and confused. I shouldnít have rushed that we had successfully frozen them but I was cynical. I only focused on negatives: What if these donít work? Now I think about it I think my H was always open to the idea of adoption if we canít naturally get conceived. But me? When my Dr mentioned I might have to use egg donors (before surgery) I was beyond sad Iím not gonna lie. I didnít necessary think it was a bad thing for me to want to have biological babies if I could, but I think it was bad I didnít explore any other options. So to my H, how helpless he must have felt. Here I was always down about babies. But at that time I was only thinking about me. Why canít he be more supportive of my pain? How unfair of me it was. He was trying to find out why he wasnít happy and yet his wife had to drown him with emotions he couldnít possibly handle.

Sorry I hijacked it a bit but itís so nice to hear success stories from ladies in my age group. Itís so comforting, so thank you for that.


M37 H36
M8 T12 inc 3yr L-dist
7/12:H broke down
10/12:H dad D frm W4. BD soon after
1/13:H wants to leave
2/13:H gpa passed. Feels closer but H still leaving
3/13: S begins
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thanks for chiming in, Grizz. feels sort of good to know I am not alone...sigh...What is PMA?

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