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Thank you AnotherStander for the quotes and more information about detachment. I think I get it. Thank you.

I most definitely want to build trust and believe in my husband. I believe him when he says he is trying. It is easy to doubt him, hard to believe when he has lied SO many times. But I am cautiously optimistic that things will improve over time. He is undecided as to whether he will contact the OW again...he is too busy at work...hasn't had time to think it through. But says he will tell me before he does and show me the email he decides to send. Can't ask for much more than that. I have patience.

I hope that he sees that being married and having the family that we have is worthwhile...and make him realize what he would miss.

I think I thought detaching was respecting his boundaries. His boundaries are all over the place and hard to figure out, so keeping a bit of friendly distance seems to respect him. (not hug him too much, give him personal space, not assume he's onboard with family plans, ask him if he'd watch the boys when I go out rather than just tell him, etc.)

thanks again.

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TigWinkle,

Your 180's and self-improvement look great, congratulations on that, I'm glad you had the epiphany when your mother was sick. My W was infatuated with a co-worker at one point who did not feel the same way about her. That didn't diminish her feelings about him in the slightest, so had you looked at the duration of their phone calls or read their e-mail you also would have concluded that it was innocuous, but she has since admitted that she was very much in-love. It doesn't have to be reciprocated to be real for your H. The only reason I say that is because his behavior supports it, and if he *was* in love with her, at least in his mind, then it will take time for him to move past it and the best way to move forward is "no contact".

Based on where you are in your journey a couple books you may enjoy and find value in would be "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" and "Passionate Marriage", both are thought provoking.

Out of curiosity, what is it about your H that is keeping you so motivated? Why does he have no friends?

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Accuray, I know that OW meant a lot to H because he loved the sharing of common interests (sci-fi, music) and someone thinking he was fun, funny, interesting and smart (all true, but I had been too bogged down with resentment, caring for my two young sons and my dying mother to see this or affirm this for him.) H told OW that his wife didn't allow him to have friends so he wasn't going to tell me about their friendship because I would get upset.

I have encouraged him to have friends, but he blames me for not having any, says that when I set up outings, double dates, suggest he join some of my friends' husbands for a drink--that I am saying that H can only be friends with the people I sanction. Not true. I am trying to make it easier for him--and these are people he genuinely likes. In the past I have wondered why he has lost touch with his college buddies and he said that I wouldn't let him be friends with them. We recently had a talk about this and it seems that I must have said that I don't like one-sided relationships, and I would let a friendship of mine fade away if the other person didn't reciprocate....and H took that to mean that I was saying HE shouldn't be friends with someone who didn't reciprocate. I think we cleared that up.

H has a very low need for socialization in general. More of an independent lone wolf homebody person. Yet he misses the easy friendships of college (20+ years ago!) It is harder to make friends he says, at work or in our suburban neighborhood. He says he doesn't even know how to go about
it anymore.

I don't think he is in love with her, but I do think he Loved the relationship very much. H said he liked it because she lived 1000 miles away and he could keep things light and fun. She is married with 3 teenage sons, her H knew about their friendship. She worried at the beginning that H was "stalking" her, and also pouted asking him something like--"why am I not good enough to let your wife know about me?". She misses him a lot, too. H showed me the last email where she apologized and hoped she hadn't burnt any bridges, that she missed his friendship and being able to share funny stories with him.

Thank you for the book recommendations and your insight. VERY much appreciated.

Right now my main motivation to save this marriage is because we have two young sons 4 and 8, and I don't want to break up our family. I also love my husband and he is very good natured, easy to be around, smart, funny, and generally a very nice person. Even right now he is never mean spirited, never rude or unfair. Just deeply confused and hurt and tired of "being a doormat".

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We had a very good therapy session and a fun weekend-- out to dinner with the kids, ice skating, birthday party for our little boy with lots of family and food..nobody would EVER guess that H is thinking of leaving and filed for divorce almost 2 months ago. I keep forgetting too--things are harmonious, friendly and "normal"...yet...he will bring it up once in a while--that he feels the "same as before"...and still might move out...can't see things changing..

YET H seems to be realizing that not everything is my fault. It is hard for me being the only one changing, the only one remorseful, the only one forgiving...but slowly he may be coming around? Asking the therapist questions about his emotional health, trying to be honest and trustworthy.

Today his job announced that they are closing--just like that--no warning--they are ALL out of work in a month's time. He was saying how blindsided he was, how dishonorable it was for the company to spring it on them with no warning, how they had no respect for them as people, as employees....how they acted like they were family...and I couldn't help but see the similarities between how he sprung this divorce on me.

We were doing great in my eyes--more intimacy, more communication, more progress, more happiness than EVER. (he said he was unhappy in late august--I immediately put into action all of his requests--and then some...for 3+ months) On a Saturday we had amazing amazing sex...initiated by him...best ever in our marriage and in my life...I was so happy! then a few days later on a Tuesday he filed for divorce. So how blindsided was I? VERY. I can't believe he does not see the parallel between the mass layoff today and what he did to me.

Might bring it up next therapy session, or might just keep my mouth shut smile

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The WAS' are blind to parallels like that. My MiL cheated on her husband and then asked him for divorce, which wreaked havoc on my W, lead her to have a nervous breakdown when she was in college.

She cheated on me then asked me for divorce but was convinced that our kids would be fine. I asked her if she saw any parallel between her path and that of her mother and she said no, there was no similarity at all.

I wouldn't bring it up. Eventually he may see it, but even if he does it's unlikely he'll admit it. You bringing it up just pushes him away and you want to focus on things that draw him closer.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Thank you Accuray for sharing. It is sad to hear about your wife's experience as a child and how she followed her mother's footsteps. This is what I want to avoid for our children. We are both from divorced homes...crappy childhoods...except I had my mom--he had nobody. He says our kids will be FINE. that I am exaggerating that they will be affected negatively quite possibly for the long term. I told him yeah--look at how "fine" you turned out and he got quiet.

As I said H asked the therapist his professional opinion--H asked if he had a below-normal amount of compassion--and T pointed to the importance of sons bonding with their mothers at a young age--and not doing this does affect you as an adult. Gave him food for thought I guess.

I hate living in limbo. Never knowing if and when he will flee. I think you are right. Drawing him closer is the key.

One of the books you recommended arrived yesterday. Can't wait to get started. thanks again.

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Originally Posted By: BrightFuture
It sounds like he didn't know how to make you happy. A big turn off for a man. And he still doesn't know how to make you happy. I'm guilty of the same behavior, by the way. My guess is it will take some time for him to start feeling comfortable with you, provided you are doing the right things.


Originally Posted By: TigWinkle
Thank you Bright Future for your insights. H knew very well how to make me happy. I told him very clearly and gave him positive feedback when he did things that I liked. He CHOSE not to do these things out of anger and resentment. This is what H told me.


It sounds to me too he didn't know how to make you happy because you were difficult to please. Maybe by the time he knew how to make you happy, he didn't want to do them any more because he was already WAS..

I'm sorry but your story struck me because "old you" reminds me of "old me" I was always counting on my H to make me happy and when he didn't I somehow blamed him. When a man is reminded every day he can't make his wife happy, like BF said I'm sure it was a turn-off.

My H too had reached his breaking point in July and I had an awakening. Just like you, I was game. I started going to IC, initiated sex more, arranged us to go to group session as suggested by my C, planned mini trips.. Everything seemed to be improving... although from time to time I noticed his sad face. Again I chose to ignore those little signs. Then 3 months later he dropped D word. I was probably as shocked as you were. I don't quite know if your H and my H are similar in personality but I see both definitely cope with sadness and rejection by playing computer games. He did tell me that he'd play games to not go crazy. Your H chose even more intense way to ease the emotional pain. Here we are, wishing they had communicated their feelings to us before going to D.. but the truth is I think my H tried his hardest to communicate that to me but I was too busy trying to make me happy I couldn't see it.

Originally Posted By: TigWinkle
I believe that I am an amazing person. H also says this--he says I am a wonderful friend, a generous person, an amazing mother--I have been lazy in my friendship with him at best, and dismissive, rude, grumpy and mean at worst. Careless. I am sure he hasn't felt special in my eyes for a long time.

Again, this hits me hard.

I hope your H would come around and consider R in the future. It's been almost 3 months of DB-ing for me and while I'm definitely a better person, it certainly doesn't make me love/miss him less.


M37 H36
M8 T12 inc 3yr L-dist
7/12:H broke down
10/12:H dad D frm W4. BD soon after
1/13:H wants to leave
2/13:H gpa passed. Feels closer but H still leaving
3/13: S begins
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Originally Posted By: TigWinkle

I hate living in limbo. Never knowing if and when he will flee. I think you are right. Drawing him closer is the key.


I was in a painful limbo over whether W was having an affair or not. Then someone here asked me if I would still be willing to reconcile if she were. So I thought about that long and hard, and I decided that even if she were in an A I would still want to reconcile, and therefore my DB'ing approach would be the same regardless. So then I did what I needed to do to get myself out of that limbo- I assumed the worst. I assumed that she was in a physical affair. And strange as it may sound, that made it a lot easier for me to deal with the whole situation. To this day I don't know if she is/ was or not, but assuming that she was made me face those demons and get past them. So where I am now in my detachment is that it no longer matters to me, it's behind me.

I'm not sure if this attitude would help you or not, perhaps if you just accept in your heart that your H is leaving then it will make it easier for you to deal with the grief and acceptance of that and move on and detach.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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stilllookingup thank you for your response. I have thought a lot about the "old me" resentful, neglected, angry that H chose computers over me, and put me in last place after all his indepedent pursuits and hobbies. I am beginning to think H is just unable to connect emotionally with ANYone...the evidence is that he has no friends at all...I do mean none...and makes no effort to keep in touch with his family members, not even his mother. This in particular is worrying.

When I say H knew very well how to please me, this is because I would gently (at first--then I admit--in a more exasperated way) say hey--I miss you, let's do something fun! Or thank you so much for thinking of me--I love it when you do little things for me like this...He KNEW what to do. I am not a mysterious person. I make my needs known. Crystal clear. He CHOSE not to do these things even though he agreed to do them (and not under duress, either). He told me he knew what to do but chose not to. Passive Agressive.

I decided that I was beating a dead horse in a way. That if I wanted affirmation, I needed to go get it elsewhere. I don't think this is a way to build a healthy marriage, by the way, but it was a way to get my needs met, and for me to stop "nagging" him. He had less pressure, and I had more self-esteem, and more gratitude for his good qualities--but still didn't feel connected to him all that much.

But Yes--years of me feeling neglected (which H admits to), disrepected, and ignored left me feeling like crap. And angry. How dare he...and that was no fun to be around. And heck if I was going to be nice to him after he was so horrible to me...and so the cycle began.

H says that he realizes that most of problems we had originated with him. Never mind that. I played a big part too. Now what do we do? He says he isn't sure he wants to do the work to undo years of unhappiness. H says good communication just happens, you shouldn't have to work at it. We are too different to break out of our old habits. I say--what about my changes? Oh yes, you have changed he says, but for how long? (ummm. so far 6 months + without stumbling once--but patience...eventually he will see it...maybe?)

My heart goes out to you stilllookingup. I am glad that you are a better person now. I feel like I am getting back the old "me"--who I was before I met H. I am not changing for H. My journey is for ME. I feel better. I hope you are feeling better too.

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AnotherStander

Your experience gives me food for thought.

So if I am assuming that H is leaving then I should contact a lawyer to make sure that I am prepared and that I get the best outcome for me and the boys?

How can I go to therapy every week and wholeheartedly work on our marriage--and I do believe H is committed to improving aspects of himself, and our relationship...yet also see a divorce lawyer?

It is hard for me to draw him into me if I am accepting that he is leaving. It is hard for me to be supportive of him if I know he is about to break our little boys' hearts.

I am having a hard time in limbo. Do I act as if we are going to be fine in the end (after tons of work of course)...or do I plan for him to leave?

I have not asked recently whether or when he is leaving. I guess I don't want to interrupt his decision making process... want to be patient and let the therapy evolve...I also don't want to know the answer.

I don't think he knows the answer either.

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