Stuckville...population 2.

[Harrier]

I've pondered writing this update for a while. Part of me is vary of the jinx, but I know there are some good people here with good ideas.

I don't know where I was but lets start off one year ago today.

Sept. '11 - I move out b/c wife wants to reduce tension and space.
During the separation kids as split 3/3 with One day I stay at the old house in the spare room.
We also decide to stop seeing our MC because we are dwelling too much in the past.
Things go along okay - no outward animosity, no real progress either, kids do great. Just seem to be floating.
Dec. '11 we had large financial issue come up and later that day my W tells me that I should move back home.

NYE 2011/2012. My wife and I have a pretty serious discussion she said that she doesn't think our marriage can work. We should really ponder what to do, but she didn't want to make any rash decisions.

Feb '12 July 12- I move back home. Separate rooms, no physical affection. She doesn't avoid me, she is generally nice and pleasant - calls me during the work day to check in, picked me up a coffee now and then lots of small gestures. I try to keep thing in check and learning to be open with her.
In may we go on vacation to Disney had a great time.

In early July, I ask about the sleeping arraignments as they are starting to bug me. It feels like a rejection. She shoots me down saying she isn't ready, doesn't know when she will be ready, if ever. Maybe we can be a couple who doesn't share bedrooms. I say that would be fine, if there were other ways of being intimate. I loose my cool a little.
Next night a way more rational discussion. I explain that being married means being intimate to me and sharing your sleeping space with someone is an intimate act. She sees that point I think for the first time. No change.

2 weeks later, I decide to ask about the biggie - Sex. Before she goes to bed I say, 'I want to ask you if you think we might be ready to have sex again." Boom she shoots me down before I finish the sentence. But then she pauses and says let me think about it.
an hour later she texts me and says that we can the next night.

So we do and it was awesome. During one point we are lying there and she says to me "are you sure you still love me?" It really threw me off. I mean from my POV I am 10000% ready to commit to working on the marriage, I love her completely and would work through a lot. I don't get it.

I want to take it really slow on ML because that was a huge flashpoint in the past. I try to be clear about what I would like, ask for it and be fine either way. We've ML twice since then space out about 3 weeks apart. I've meet all my goals on this.

The problems - I did a major screw up while I was on vacation in Colorado. My SIL was watching our son. My SIL is a physician and my wife just doesn't like her since before we were married. She tolerates her now. But she always felt like I took the SIL side in the dispute with my W. My W just didn't like her and basically I told her I didn't understand why she didn't like her and tried to convince her otherwise. Everyone else gave my W the same message about SIL including all of her family.

Anywho - SIL is watching my son with his cousins. I was with my bro at a friends house. While under SIL's care my son, who was sick, had a short Febrile seizure. I didn't know what to do, my SIL didn't want to take him to the ER. I tried calling my wife. My other sister is an ED nurse and she said we didn't need to take him. I come back and find my son, just warm but mostly okay.

The next day I tell my wife and she goes ballistic saying she should have taken him to the ED. She doesn't know what the heck SIL is doing. She went great lengths to not blame me at all. And then afterward everyone tried to say that my W had nothing to get freaked out about because he was in the care of a doctor and my sister who works in the ED said to do the same thing. I, of course, took the opposite side saying that we won't let the SIL watch our son alone again and I agreed that the SIL should've taken him to the ED (though I didn't force the issue, nor was I there)

But I think she felt that when push came to shove again - people wouldn't pick her concerns views of the SIL. myself included. She did tell me not to confront SIL while I was there.

Okay fast forward to a week or so ago. I talk to my W about the sleeping arrangements. Bascially, I say I understand that you need this right now and it affords you a level of privacy you need right now, but basically it s@cks for me. This leads into a discussion about the state of things.

1) she doesn't necessarily want to get divorced (she cried while telling me this) But added that the reason that she doesn't want to get divorced isn't because she so in love with me she can't imagine my life without you kind of reason. She said that she wanted to honor her vows. And thinks she'd fall apart if we divorced.

2) She suggested that we start up MC again, this time with someone new. (But then backed up a bit saying with 2 small kids, 2 full time jobs and no family support, it's a challenge)

3) If she could have an existence where were basically roomates, who watched our kids and had sex infrequently. She'd be okay with that for now.

4) She did say that No. 4 probably isn't healthy and said that she wanted those points of intimacy as well. She just pushes those needs aside for now.

5) She said what we have been doing hasn't been working.

6)She's also worried that if we divorced I'd freakout and try to harm myself and she'd have the guilt for the rest of her life.

7) She also mentioned at one point that I would basically take anything I could get in a marriage. I tried to shoot that idea down short of "walking"

My response to most of this was to listen.I didn't try any validation BS.I tried to convey to her that if the worst happened, it would not be the end of the world of me. I don't want to split up. I tried to tell her I need more out of a relationship and it's a bad example for our kids. (6 & 2)


So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills.

I feel like I just don't know how to proceed Retrouville is out as the only one in our area this year is wen she's gone away to a conference for work...and I don't know if she'd even go. She's a psychologist so isn't really into that stuff (though she'd be more than happy to suggest it to her patients.

[Harrier]

I realizes there is a lot to digest, you you can feel free to comment on any part or no parts or every part.

[Carnac]

Harrier: I haven't had time to read through your story and obvioulsy im kind of a rookie here, but it seems as though you two have had some growth...mind you it looks like 2 forward 1 1/2 back but thats still growth nonetheless. I think that MC is absolutely the way to go, it sounds like your past experience was with someone who wasn't solution-focused. Maybe thats what you need to find, someone to help you move forward not who is so concerned with digging up all the old. Obviously you have to go back some to understand the problems, but you sound like you need someone to help you going forward.

[MrBond]

First of all, I don't think you should have thrown SIL under the bus like that. She's a doctor and your other sister is a nurse and they both said it was okay. Plus your W wasn't around. In the end it's not your SIL's fault. If you keep doing that you are destroying your family support system. It's no wonder you feel that you and your W have no familial support.

Next, in terms of your W, the reason why she is soooo slow at making a decision is because she really hasn't tried ANYTHING. It may be because of her profession, but she's doing a lousy job of self-diagnosing. The only way that she will have a happy M is to totally open herself up and trust. I can never understand how people say they can be fine being unhappy with the rest of their lives. Duh, if you actually did some work to make yourself happy wouldn't it be worth it?

Look up Project Happily Ever After. It's a book and website that you W might like to read. Keep DB for yourself, but the other site is good for your W to see how a woman who pretty much wanted her H dead, turned their M around into one that is wholly loving.

[Harrier]

Thx. Bond, but I do want to correct a few things about the SIL.

I didn't throw her under the bus. Yes she is a physician, but not a pediatrician (OB-GYN), but she (my SIL) told that she was freaked out by the seizure. She probably would have taken him to the ED, but she had my other cousins with her. I didn't say one word to her or my brother about it. My wife wasn't so much mad that it happened how it did, but that she felt like people were ignoring her concerns as a mother. Every medical professional I talked too outside of my family said he should have gone to the ED.
When I talked about family support I was talking more about physical location not emotional distance. We both live 2000 miles from our families.

I agree on the second part 100% and will look at the site.

[MrBond]

Most importantly in your sitch, just have fun.

Rather than constantly thinking about the past and the problems with the R, spend time enjoying one another.

Maybe take her to a comedy club or an amusement park. Someplace where you can just have fun with each other.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Harrier,

Not here for very long atm, so this will be more blunt than it normally is.

1) she doesn't necessarily want to get divorced (she cried while telling me this) But added that the reason that she doesn't want to get divorced isn't because she so in love with me she can't imagine my life without you kind of reason. She said that she wanted to honor her vows. And thinks she'd fall apart if we divorced.

2) She suggested that we start up MC again, this time with someone new. (But then backed up a bit saying with 2 small kids, 2 full time jobs and no family support, it's a challenge)

3) If she could have an existence where were basically roomates, who watched our kids and had sex infrequently. She'd be okay with that for now.

4) She did say that No. 4 probably isn't healthy and said that she wanted those points of intimacy as well. She just pushes those needs aside for now.

5) She said what we have been doing hasn't been working.

6)She's also worried that if we divorced I'd freakout and try to harm myself and she'd have the guilt for the rest of her life.

7) She also mentioned at one point that I would basically take anything I could get in a marriage. I tried to shoot that idea down short of "walking"

My response to most of this was to listen.I didn't try any validation BS.I tried to convey to her that if the worst happened, it would not be the end of the world of me. I don't want to split up. I tried to tell her I need more out of a relationship and it's a bad example for our kids. (6 & 2)


So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills.

You have (to me) always kept DB concepts at a distance, like you know better, that these things won't work.

example:

I didn't try any validation BS

and to that:

example:

So that's it. It's been like this for 7 months. no real growth. creating some anger in me that spills

Let me know when your ready to try DBing, or hell try Denver's approach to it, which is similar to Starsky's or mine...pick and choose what works for you, but don't accept it when it isn't working.

[Harrier]

JTB.
Blunt? I'd expect nothing less from you (and I don't mean that in a bad way)

I was watching some kids show with my son and thought of you. One character started saying, "But..." The other character stopped him and said "Buts are for pooping."

To clarify when I was talking about the validation BS, I was referring the language of validation NOT the act. (I do think DB sometimes gets hung up on language too much) I saw that first hand with my son's illness. No one in my family just took the time to say to my wife. Hey, I know it must have been rough being far from your child and not knowing what was going on.


But more to the point. DB is a slippery concept. It doesn't always work and if it doesn't then people just shift how they wanted it to work. It's like losing weight. Some people say I want to loose 30-lbs. Say they only lose 15, but end up being healthier. They they shift their goals to "Hey, I'm healthier."
That may be true, but that wasn't your goal. it's rationalization pure and simple.

For those where DB does "work" they say see it worked. That's confirmation bias. You can't win and you can't lose with DB.

I have been read around on this recently and have come to the conclusion that DBs principles aren't earth shattering. There is a commonality across a number of different programs. There are some parts of DB I 10000% agree with, some parts I question, some parts I think are BS or downright dangerous. However, I have recently found something I think that will work with me.

I do like the community and do like the challenge, support, encourage, etc. And I do try to "play by the rules" here. I don't encourage people to do something that is clearly against the principles.

Your post really got me thinking...as always.

[Denver_2010]

But more to the point. DB is a slippery concept. It doesn't always work and if it doesn't then people just shift how they wanted it to work. It's like losing weight. Some people say I want to loose 30-lbs. Say they only lose 15, but end up being healthier. They they shift their goals to "Hey, I'm healthier."
That may be true, but that wasn't your goal. it's rationalization pure and simple.

For those where DB does "work" they say see it worked. That's confirmation bias. You can't win and you can't lose with DB.

Haven't I been saying this for almost 2 years now? LOL!

I actually agree with you for the most part Harrier. I simply decided that I wasn't going to accept this, "if you improve yourself, it doesn't matter what happens with your M" concept. I decided that I do agree with the improving and saving yourself, but that was the originally goal...

They HAVE to go hand in hand. The should be duel goals. 1) save your M, 2) improve yourself. Not necessarily in that order.

What qualifies as success eventually becomes up to the individual poster.
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But I do agree with JTB Harrier. And this is something that I've thought about you for a very long time. I just don't recall you ever really applying DB tactics to your own sitch. In fact, you kind of just stopped talking about your own sitch.

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But none of this ^^ is really the point right now.

My question to you, about your sitch, is what can you do to get your W to put in the work that she needs to put in to turn this around?

It sounds to me that what you have been doing isn't working. A cheeseless tunnel. You need to do something different.

[Denver_2010]

but that was the originally goal...

Sheesh! I need an edit button. Seriously.

That ^^ should read, "But that was NOT the original goal..."