It's been a slow journey with an H that one day seemingly inexplicably said he wanted to separate and has remained steadfast in that statement ever since. He's stayed in the home and we haven't said anything to the kids, but he blew off reading and blew off counseling and now that the required year has passed he is gathering papers and talking about getting a separation agreement drawn up.
I used to wonder at the posters here who talked about all the "hard work" they were doing and all the "big changes" they were making. I felt like an imposter because I just didn't feel like I was working hard or making changes. I was hurting and learning and trying and developing new perspective, but I just wasn't sure it was enough, and it really didn't seem as extreme as what I heard others here talking about.
Now I look back and I feel like a rock that's been eroded to sand by the ocean waves. I feel different, I act different, I think the changes are very subtle. I still look around and have a messy house sometimes, but I think about that differently than before and I have different tools to manage that predilection with my family's needs. I didn't become Mrs. Clean but I became someone who could get along with Mr. Clean.
My sitch seems to be progressing toward divorce, which I feel is sad but I don't feel is tragic anymore. I would love to be able to create a new and better R with my H, but I can't do it by myself. I'm not pushing him out the door, but I'm not pursuing him either. I'm just focusing on my new bootcamp goals of getting fit and clarifying my boundaries. I think my M's only chance right now is if H begins to notice that our life together has been consistently different and better for a long time now, and he begins to want that more than whatever it is he's been seeking. I have no control over what he notices or decides.
I would note to newcomers that the help you get comes from what you go after. Read other threads, even going back to the beginning of some of the vets to see how they changed over time, and learn from that. Post to others to provide support to them and reinforce what you're working on. Read DB/DR. Don't expect the vets to come to you and fix your problems. Everything you need is right here already.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Question for you, on #3, how did you get your H to take part? Was he part of any IC sessions that brought this up or is he just following your example of staying calm and looking for solutions?
The reason I ask is both my W and I have avoided conflict a lot in our M. I grew up in an environment where no conflict was the goal and appeasement was used to calm things down (dad to mom). W grew up in an verbally abusive environment (some physical maybe) where it seems a "duck and run" approach worked. So now for W, its either avoide or blow up. Any thoughts on how to engage her in an actual conversation? Paging Dr. Ad.....
My H grew up with no conflict - he did everything he was supposed to (possibly out of fear) and his dad not being there appears to have taught him to walk away and shut people out. He learned to hide his emotions and protect himself.
I grew up oppositional and defiant in the face of authority and control. I thought I was comfortable in conflict but really was just reactive and fed a vicious cycle rather than resolving anything.
H went to counseling with me about 3 times or so, and just those times gave me enough insight to go on with meeting with IC alone, and we'd kick around and role play situations that had occurred between me and H so I could reframe them and learn how to respond more effectively. She prescribed reading that helped too.
My consistently changing how I approached and responded to H made a difference. I learned not to fear opening up a conversation of potential conflict. I learned a conflict doesn't have to be resolved in one conversation - I can hear his viewpoint and come back later with mine. A lot of our conflicts have turned out to be that we see things differently and each think the way we see it is obviously right. It's been a learning curve for me to get used to my worldview not being the only correct one. Because I was pretty sure it was.
With the family counseling sessions, I discussed some concerns with H about the kids interactions - bullying, overeating, possible self esteem issues - and with the impending D I felt it was important to get them in to get used to the idea of counseling and see if our family could learn to communicate more effectively. My IC told me she had done "family meeting" education with other clients and thought that's what we needed. H was on board with that idea because it was for the kids, although he had recently told me that MC with me was a very low priority for him. So H showed up and participated well in both the family sessions.
IC talked to us about being respectful (even Dad) and everyone letting each other be heard (even s12). She suggested that the family together can come up with innovative solutions and provide necessary feedback to each other. The family was supposed to come up with its own groundrules. It was a little touchy-feely for my testosterone laden family but they suffered through it and I have seen it making a bit of a difference in how we talk to each other. One thing that came out of the family session is that S14 has trouble taking me seriously because I laugh and kid even when I'm disciplining him, so we came up with ways I could let him know when I was really being serious. That was feedback I don't know if I'd have gotten without the IC session. It was cool.
CES I believe that just my learning better techniques made it possible for me and H to communicate better, without his thinking it was necessary and without his going to IC or seeking any help on his side. I learned to read his signals better and understand him better, and so communicating is safer for him. He hated when I yelled and got emotional, and I didn't know how not to. Now I can bring something up and let him know I'm not going to freak out.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
And by the way, you inspired me another way. I talked to a co-worker of mine who offered to teach me how to swim. I can get from one end of a pool to the other but that's about it. I work for a funraising organization and we do quite a few sports fundraisers. This guy coordinates a lot of them. He was tryign to talk me into doing a tri in the spring and I told him I'm a lousy swimmer so he offered to coach me. That was a month ago. So yesterday I told him when his busy season was over, I'd like to take him up on the offer!
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Thanks Cat04! I don't know where I'm going from here, or at least I don't know what you're getting at but I have a few things going on.
1) Keeping my bootcamp going. It is a) helping me learn goal setting and goal achieving, b) tackling some of the things that were wrong with both me and consequently my marriage, c) improving my mental/emotional state, and d) keeping my mind off my sitch so I can just BE in it. I'm planning to continue modifying my goals to suit my purposes and as my ability increases.
2) Continuing the DB things that are working for me. They include detaching myself from my H's emotions and actions. Getting a life (I have travel coming up, I created a guitar meetup and have our second meeting coming up, I'm making plans with friends and other plans with my kids, am looking at dancing with my sister in the fall). I lent my DB book to my sister so when I get it back I'll plan to reread it with a beginners mind and see what it says to me now.
3) Preparing to protect my and my children's interests as my H proceeds toward D. I have a meeting next week with a financial counselor who specializes in setting women up post-divorce by helping guide their decisions through divorce, and I have gathered all the documents and numbers she needs to get started working with me. I have a L in my back pocket who I plan to call when H schedules mediation or presents me with a draft separation agreement. I met with him last year and like him. I ordered both a book on things I'll need to know about getting divorced and the often recommended Codependent No More to brush up on my relationship skills.
4) Continuing to see my IC every two weeks. She's become more of a life counselor for me since I'm the only one who goes to her. I use her to help me learn to identify and cope with my emotions, parent my kids, get along with my H, succeed at work, heal scars from childhood, you name it. She's priceless.
5) Continuing to work at my half of my M. Understanding, listening, and being compassionate toward my H. We have a weekly "date" to talk about whatever we need to talk about, something we've never done before in 20 years. I'm still working on the things he reflected to me that I wanted to improve - procrastination, keeping to deadlines, keeping a neater home, being less reactive and overemotional, and more. While I feel working on this improves our home life considering we still live together, it's worth doing even if our marriage is dead. It's also stuff I know reduces some of the reasons he resented me so it could show him marriage to me will be different and better. And finally, even if he leaves forever it leaves me a better person and happier with myself.
So that's where I think I'm going. Is that the kind of thing you meant by your question though?
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
wow! I am soo impressed and inspired by your posts and your progress!
I love the idea of you doing the bootcamp on your own. I might copy you. Even though my sitch is old, I feel like I need to start from scratch again - re-read DR book, set goals, be accountable, do new things, detach from H, accept my sitch, etc.
You give me so much to think about. I will keep following your amazing progress and wish you continued success!
You are amazing!
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
As of today I have a new mailbox address, checking and savings accounts in my name, credit and debit cards, and financial advisor. And I got a root canal. Quite a day.
I read my book cover to cover (He Had It Coming) and thought it provided good advice and information about worst-case scenarios to plan for. There was a bit of vindictiveness in it but it was easy to read around that. Tomorrow I meet with IC.
My H was in Chicago while I took S14 and his friend to the beach for a long weekend, and to meet up with my DB friends. It was so fun! I didn't communicate with H all weekend, and very little when I got home. Was friendly but not overly talkative.
Since then I have shared more about things we did like the deep sea fishing where we caught and ate our dinner. I haven't heard anything about H's friends in Chicago yet.
Today when H got home we talked a lot more. I let him know I had met and liked the financial planner. I told him a couple of things she complimented that I knew he was proud of, like our no-debt and our savings. She agreed with him that we don't need to involve a second lawyer, and she agreed with him that our sitch was financially pretty straightforward. She thought I had gathered good information and good advice so far.
I let H know that she had advised I start establishing a financial identity in my own name and that I was going to start putting my direct deposit into an account in my own name, and he was fine with that. I let him know it would be transparent and still joint funds, so he would know I wasn't trying anything underhanded. He seemed fine with it. I'm glad I had a chance to tell him before he noticed the paychecks missing.
H leaves tomorrow for Utah and I will take S14 to lax camp at Navy, then on Saturday S12 returns from boy scout camp and I might take him to the beach where a friend of mine from high school and college is visiting, up in New Jersey. I'll have to come back Monday to pick up S14 and get him to another lax camp.
That means Friday night I'll have no H and no boys home. Thinking about either going out or, for a change, staying in. I need to see Bridesmaids still.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I bagged the trip to NJ because I felt my stress level was just too high. Slept in and wandered around my empty house, watched some movies that made me feel better, and just waited out my malaise. Now I'm sitting in Annapolis waiting for S14's camp to let out.
H is as usual incommunicado on his trip to UT. I didn't know when he arrived OK, or how he's been doing. But we got an email from the scouts warning that there was a case of lice at camp, and I got an instant email from H "You need to shave S12's head. I can't believe they let a kid with lice go to camp." Hello honey. I wrote back with S12's response - he didn't go near the hammock city where the lice case was, nothing touched his head other than his hat and his sleeping bag, and we don't see anything in his already buzz-cut hair, so we think he's fine, signed Love, all of us. And a PS about a gas leak we had that got repaired.
I used to try to control H by asking him to contact us when he was away, by reaching out to contact him, and by getting upset when he didn't seem interested in talking to us. He always acted like talking on the phone to me was actually painful, and he often hung up while I was still talking, if I paused too long; he was just so anxious to get off the phone. It wasn't until I heard him chitchat on the phone with others that I resented this. I see so many people on these message boards who actually like and want to check in with their spouses now and then. I would like that for me too.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
