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Hi All,
This is the first time I've really ever posted to a message board, much less having to admit what is going on in my life.
Hopefully I'm doing this right...

Husband and I are in our early thirties. We were married when we were 21. Overall, I see now that husband has a history of shaking up his/our world every 6 months - some are more extreme than others, but generally I've found they always are around October and last until April/May. I think it's partially Seasonal Affect Disorder because where we live there is grey skies and rain the entire 6 months. Maybe...

History:
October-April 02 husband left to live with family in the SW sun. After 9/11, he couldn't 'handle' life and left me up here while he figured out what to do. He called me and wrote letters every day stating how much he missed me. We reunited in April at my doing (I said I'd move to where he was). We ended up back here in the NW grey/rain weather.

I admit, I am not very pleasant to be with at times - but especially at this point. I was upset that he could so easily leave and he could never explain why. I admit, I am bossy and needy where he is more free spirited. I do all the housework, the bills and he plays games and does his own activities.

Sometime in 2004 - he has one night stand. I don't find out about this until he confesses a couple years ago.
Sometime in 2006 - he kisses another woman. Don't find out about this until confession 2010.

Baby comes, new house.

Our schedules change for the worse. We are now on complete opposite schedules until child starts school (this fall). We never have alone time nor does he care to now.

2010, November: husband is acting moody, distant. Given that his M.O. is this in October - April, I tend to his moods, but don't think much of it. He confesses the 2004/2006 incidents and tells me that he's wanted to tell me when it happened. He also states he isn't sure if he wants to be married. I am devastated.

2011-2011: Things are rocky. He's never fully acknowledged he wants to be married and sporadically says 'I love you'. I see he's depressed and frustrated with his work and his life.

2012 Feb: I leave to go to visit his family in the SW, he doesn't want to go. Not unusual. He called me every day I was there. I could tell husband was going down his depression path and I'm trying to maintain relationships with his family for the sake of our child. His patterns are applying for lots of work in October, not hearing anything, and then starting to spiral in November.

Husband told me on the phone when I arrived back home that he didn't want to be married anymore, and he didn't come home that night. He hasn't been home at night since. He told me that he didn't miss me at all when I was gone (hello, he called every day) and that he only missed our child. He's moved out to a "friend's" house (I've been asked, and I 100% believe this is not a woman - as I've asked him repeatedly and told him if it was - it's over. He's denied it every time).

He's so checked out at this point that I don't know what to do.

The hard part is that my FIL is staying at my house for the next month (we traveled back to the state together and he has been here since the Feb bomb dropped). Our child's birthday is coming up later next month and more inlaws are expecting to come stay at my house (Even though their SON is not here!?!) They are not reasonable people and I can further damage relationships if I make a fuss. I feel like I'm being used here by my husband to act as a barrier to his parents and responsibilities. He has barely spoken to his father even though he's in the same state and usually has a good relationship with him. Husband just comes over each morning at 8:00 am and uses the TV, the internet, the shower, feeds our kid and then exchanges the kid with me at 2:00 pm. He goes to work until 11:00pm, then goes to his friends house. I could offer to leave the house at night (have him here from 11:00 pm to 2:00 pm) but I feel that will hurt my case. I feel like that he is taking advantage of his dad being here and the longer he spends away, the easier it gets for him to be gone. He doesn't need to act like an adult because daddy is here to make excuses for him. His father won't even have a sit down with him to talk about what is going on. It's too passive for my tastes.

In the meantime, kid has been promised a dog for 3 years, and now FIL and husband are angry with me because I said "Right now we are in limbo and I don't feel like introducing a dog will be the best thing." FIL was angry and said that I was punishing my child because of what husband is doing.

Honestly I've felt like I'm the 'mom' in this relationship. I've talked until I'm blue in the face (and he says I'm harping at him) about how he should come home. Our child asks him to come home and husband ignores him. Husband won't answer his phone at night (it goes to voice mail) and if I dare state my expectations, I can fully expect to hear from him the next day about how he's moving out and is filing for divorce. (I did find the divorce paperwork started but he hasn't bothered to fill in the rest and won't get a lawyer). He's taken away one paycheck so far, and was shocked when I presented him with a list of bills he'd have to pay on his own and his income. "But how am I supposed to live?" he asked... "It's expensive here" I replied.

He called tonight and it turned into me telling him that I want him to come home. He says "I know I heard you. I'll see you tomorrow." I don't know how to have a conversation with him that doesn't turn into me demanding he come home. I'm fully expecting to hear from him tomorrow about he wants to move out...

Help.. I'm feeling trapped and I don't know what to do. I really didn't want to get a divorce from him - but I'm feeling painted into a corner. Normally I'm the "take action, I'll do it" kinda gal - but I feel like right now I should do nothing? Do I continue these phone conversations (that is when he isn't calling his father's phone to talk to our son)? I feel like if I say nothing at all - he is all too easily capable of 'forgetting' what good things he had going on here. He's so self-absorbed right now that he could care less about what I'm doing, as long as it doesn't affect what he 'feels' like doing.

urgh... drama drama drama. Thank you all for reading. I've been stressing about this and I don't understand how someone can go from sooo loving at first to a person who I don't even recognize. I also don't know what I should be acting like. I feel like my world is crashing down.


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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(I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I did.)

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.


H: 49
W: 47
D: 6
M: 6 1/2 yrs
H: Bomb #1 6-2010
H: Bomb #2 7-2011
H: Separated: 7-11-11
Reconciling 2-2012
Separated: 1-31-15 (I asked him to move out)
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 477
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I understanding what you are going through. And I am so sorry you are here.

The best thing you can do right now is give him his space. He wants a divorce, let him feel how it will be being a single dad. At first, he will give you the impression he likes it, but deep down he won't. Keep the conversation about your daughter only. You end the conversation, not him. Be happy when he is around. Even if you are not, act it. Starting doing things for yourself. GAL. Start working on yourself for yourself.

If you get a chance, read my thread. My H and I are reconciling now and things are great. I am keeping my fingers cross.

Keep posting here. There are a lot of great people here with wonderful advice.


H: 49
W: 47
D: 6
M: 6 1/2 yrs
H: Bomb #1 6-2010
H: Bomb #2 7-2011
H: Separated: 7-11-11
Reconciling 2-2012
Separated: 1-31-15 (I asked him to move out)
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 227
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Thank you - I actually stumbled across the 37 rules and read them today. I also had to go out and buy another copy of DB because I sold my previous version when I though we stumbled out of the woods LAST time! Got my copy next to my bed to read every night (the nights are the worst part for me).

Today I was not invited to a basketball game with son and H. I caught myself getting miffed, and said 'Oh that sounds like fun, you two will have a great time!' and walked out of the room.
H didn't invite his father either (who is still living at our house). I notice he is ignoring his father so am relieved that it's just not me.

When H and son left for game, I also left the house. H called me and was suspicious and asked "what are you doing?", I nonchalantly replied "Oh I'm going to the bookstore, gonna grab a coffee, and do my thing!" He sounded shocked that I wasn't following him to annoy him.

I am resolving to not call him, not text him, and not email him. Since he still comes over for the bulk of the morning each day to watch kiddo, I am attempting to be here (a big part of our relationship failure was we never saw each other) but I am not going to follow him around the house like a puppy dog trying to have conversations about the relationship. I will try to remain cheerful in my interactions with him. Honestly, I feel like if I can write on here and read other people's stories, then I am doing better mentally. Otherwise this crap just build up until I explode at him.

He is withholding a couple of paychecks from me right now. I am not asking about those.

He dropped off son and I had him take care of the night-time rituals (he is always avoiding those since he wants to get on with his plans, but if he wants to be a single dad - then those responsibilities comes with it!). H then tried to leave without saying bye. He said he didn't want to fight. I said "Fight? Nah. Have a goodnight! Drive safe!" then I shut the door and locked it, turned off the outside light and turned off my phone (ha - there's a turn around!) all before he got into his truck.

I feel better today!


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
Joined: Aug 2011
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M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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I'm still on moderation but....
I found a text conversation with a coworker. benign for now, but she triggered the last episode a couple years ago too. She is desperately attaching herself to married men. She's the type who friends everyone she ever met for a second on facebook. She reeks of desperation but given an opportunity of someone who listens and jokes around, vs someone who is on their case, I'd go with the fun person too. I brought it up to him and asked him if he felt that I don't give him enough attention.
HE is not cheating. I am relieved over that. It's hard to not talk to people although at some point we will have a chat over what people, activities are beneficial to our marriage. I'm letting this one slide even though my thoughts are more like call her and chew her out. He will have to stop on his own accord. I realize that it's up to him who he wants to communicate with, and I can't ban every single female from his life!


He FINALLY communicated to me and said that he was overwhelmed. He's got job that keeps him busier than he wants, he's desperately looking for work in a new field, we've got our S who is not in day care (we split our time with him while both juggling full time schedules), he's got a few side projects (all career related) going on, and he feels like he doesn't have the energy or want to put the effort into the marriage. I told him that I don't need him to make a big effort - just show up! It seems like he is taking his 'to-do' list and trying to eliminate the one that seems the easiest to get rid of, but doesn't take into account the ongoing problems eliminating the marriage will cause. I mentioned that I want him to tell me if he needs me to take kiddo for few hours, I'd be glad to. If I'm being too repetitive, to tell me! If I am doing something that makes him unhappy, then I need to know so I can rectify it if I can (Sometimes I hear myself sounding like my mom and I NEVER wanted that!) wink However, I did say that the marriage is important. It's important enough for me to fight for it, and it's important for me, our S, and our family (meaning me, H and S) although I understand where he is coming from.

I got off the phone with him at this point. I sensed a bit of relief in his voice after telling me his frustrations and wanted to leave it on a good note. I want us to be better communicators, but I can't sit there and keep pounding my POV in his head as I've done for 2 months before.

In the meantime, I've adjusted my schedule to be home more to alleviate some stress. I also have made my GAL list of things that I want to do and published them where my friends/family can see them. I'm going to do activities that are just for me and kiddo can come too. That leaves me less stressed as well without having to worry about childcare.

Now onto my GALS. wink

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Everything sounds good. If it was me and he called and asked what I was doing, I would just say running errands or something. I would not give him details. Leave some mystery.


H: 49
W: 47
D: 6
M: 6 1/2 yrs
H: Bomb #1 6-2010
H: Bomb #2 7-2011
H: Separated: 7-11-11
Reconciling 2-2012
Separated: 1-31-15 (I asked him to move out)
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 227
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Journaling a bit - I feel frustrated that H is still going to friends house every night. He is currently 'napping' in our bedroom, not making any effort to move out 100%. I am saying nothing. Just giving him space and not telling him what to do (a 180). I've avoided my house for most of the morning, but it's hard when I have work to do here on the weekend too. When he leaves each night, he expects me to follow him out and give him a hug/kiss. I am wanting change to happen quickly. Patience is a virtue that I am trying to possess. We will address it at some point, but I'm not putting pressure on him.

Do I follow him out and give him hug/kiss? If I'm trying to be more loving, I'm projecting here, but I really do think he appreciates me doing it.

I think my 180s are:
1) be more loving. I have to change that to 'understanding' for the time being as loving is just annoying him.
2) stop 'fixing' everything
3) get back into art and not so much into practical
4) start to get the house ready for 'sale'. I have to do most of this work on my own... but a big 180 would be to actually move.
5) Stop being bossy and telling him what to do.
6) Expressing my gratefulness for his tasks he does.

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Well... I found out about OW. I had suspicions about the one I mentioned earlier, then last night in a enormous bout of anxiety, I drove over to where her apartment was. Lo and behold there is his truck.

I had her phone number, I blew it up texting and calling. He would never answer his. I don't recommend this. I saw him leave the apartment complex this morning (yes I staked it out early). Recall that earlier this week, I asked him straight up if he was seeing her at all or talking to her and he lied and lied to me saying 'no'. I caught him. I left a note on his truck too. He called me and admitted he slept with her one time 5 or 6 months ago. It didn't really hurt me as much because he has already cheated on me before and it didn't hurt as much as finding out about the first time. However, even though he was 'sleeping' on her couch and not having sex with her since then, I find the whole two months of him being there completely inappropriate and disgusting. I left her a voice mail asking her if she was going to the responsible thing and end it or if she was going to do it the hard way. I also mentioned to her that he was still coming home for some sexual acts.

He called me and was pissed off. So angry at me and told me that "I" was involving other people and creating drama. I remained calm and listened. I then said, "I can see you are very upset. I am not involving other people - I didn't step out." (probably not the best thing to say? He continued to threaten me and threaten that he wants a divorce and he hasn't been happy in the last year. But then he told me "You need to fill in the (swear F word) paperwork!" (Umm... no I'm not going to do it, I thought to myself) I said "I can tell you haven't been happy. I can also see that you have been living what I think is a double life of lying and cheating too, so if you haven't been happy and living the lifestyle you aim to get by divorcing, I can't help you. If you want to work with me to create a relationship where you can thrive and be happy, I can be apart of that. But I am standing up for the marriage because it's important to me. And it's important to our son. And deep down I think it's important to you, but I think you've buried it in unhappiness for now. that's ok, I get that. You do what you think is best for you"

After a few more threats from him, I ended the conversation. He then called me to tell me the OW was going to call me.

She was very apologetic and said that they had a 'slip up' 5-6 months ago. I interrupted her and told her "you didn't have a slip up. You took in a married man and had helped him break his vows. You also continue to let him stay at your house over the last two months instead of directing him home." I then laid into her about her self worth and what kind of man did she think she was going to get - if she only goes after married men who are unfaithful. I mentioned to her that this didn't bother me as much as she thinks, because she's like the 4th girl now. She was shocked by that revelation. Apparently she thought she was the only one. I asked her how she felt and she said she was disgusted.
Anyway, she told me that she will no longer talk to him in any way at work, nor text him, or even talk to him at work. Nor will he ever be allowed to step foot in her apartment again. (I told her that she needs to apply this rule to ALL married men and stop being desperate).

I had a 10 minute conversation with her. She then told me at the end of the conversation that if there was anything she could do for me, I have her number. I told her that I'm not going to bother. What she could have done was to tell him to go home and not get involved with married men.

I'm IN Last Resort mode right now and I've started going dark. He needs to figure out what kind of life he wants to live.

Anyway, H is upset/angry. He's at home in a empty house without me and S. I don't know if he will be there when I get back - but I can't be there right now. I refuse to be part of a relationship that doesn't value me. I will be nice to him, I will be supportive like a friend - but I won't be trashed and called names. I also won't have any other OW's feelings being put above mine but I'm not going to be 'fixing' him anymore.


IT's killing me to not go home and talk to him or to apologize. (For what?!) I feel like I should be the peace maker and make him feel better and that nothing has to change. So I'm hanging out all day at a coffee shop with kiddo trying to give him space now that OW has kicked him out.

I wish I didn't go over there. I don't think that confronting OW or him was good and it could have gone very badly with her. At this point, I've been cheated on him 4 times all in Oct/Nov time frames in the 15 years I've known him. I don't like to always be on the lookout for OW or to be told that I'm 'jealous' for no reason. All lies.

My goal was to keep the marriage together. I don't know what to do anymore at this point. He goes through these depressive periods and I can't do anything other than be supportive. This was not a good day.


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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