New trying to DB-Help!

[Truegritter]

Wow, I cannot read too much into this

I am not saying this to burst your bubble but you can't read ANYTHING into this.

You will burn yourself out if you let yourself do it.

You will see little glimpses of her coming and going closer and further away from you.

The trick is not to scare the squirrel who is coming closer to take a the nut from your hand.

No sudden moves.

See what is working and keep doing it.

No begging or checking her temperature by asking questions about how she is feeling.

so who knows. I have to quit trying to read her mind. focus on me and kids.

You gave yourself good advice here J. Follow it.

BTW recognize your acts of service at this point MAY be pursuing behavior.

True it is something you haven't done and is a 180 but just be mindful of her reaction to it.

Really 180's to me are about you, not about focusing on the other person. Changes for you.

Else they won't stick.

Also focusing on your W too much can take you off task which is reaching goals for the better man you want to be.

Which are what for you? Goals for you? That are measured by your actions not your W's reaction?

[jlove]

Wow, I cannot read too much into this

I am not saying this to burst your bubble but you can't read ANYTHING into this.

You will burn yourself out if you let yourself do it.

You will see little glimpses of her coming and going closer and further away from you.

The trick is not to scare the squirrel who is coming closer to take a the nut from your hand.

No sudden moves.

See what is working and keep doing it.

No begging or checking her temperature by asking questions about how she is feeling.

so who knows. I have to quit trying to read her mind. focus on me and kids.

You gave yourself good advice here J. Follow it.

BTW recognize your acts of service at this point MAY be pursuing behavior.

True it is something you haven't done and is a 180 but just be mindful of her reaction to it.

Really 180's to me are about you, not about focusing on the other person. Changes for you.

Else they won't stick.

Also focusing on your W too much can take you off task which is reaching goals for the better man you want to be.

Which are what for you? Goals for you? That are measured by your actions not your W's reaction?

I am letting her come to me at this point and trying not to initiate anything. We still share so much together and there are still so many future plans for us as a family it's hard not to ever mention things though. I.E. out trip to Carribean together next month.

my goals are to remain sober and become a lean mean exercise machine and compete in a triathlon within the next year. Also, to be there for my 3 kids when they need me and support them. to be a more attentive father, not the one who was checked out for the last 14 years of parenthood at times. to learn to love unconditionally and live it, and let all the chips fall where they may. I think W is realizing that if she doesn't come back, someone else will want the new me (just my sense and hope, but either way that is a positive for ME). People are constantly telling me how good I look now and say they hardly recognize me. Even my priest said I was an inspiration to exercise more, so that makes me feel good, even if it's validation thru others. I need to work on self-validation in the process.

[jlove]

Last couple of days uneventful. We had a good V-Day dinner, no R talk, but talked about our future jobs, etc. seems like W is in plans for our future as a family, but still distant at times. Then this am she started talking about FB IPO and stuff and I had to blurt out "I hate FB, it causes divorces." She said she couldn't believe I said it so loud, especially with D upstairs listening. I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming. Especially after I caught her and OM FB messaging 3 weeks ago even though they aren't friends anymore. I do hate FB, but need to keep some thoughts to myself. W said she wasn't mad at me, but it's still a backslide. Arghh. I need to focus on me, just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb. So hard living together as a family, but acting as if nothing's wrong with us. Seems fake and makes it hard. Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids? They need to know better. especially don't want D to grow up thinking affairs are an ok way to end a M. Wow, what a screwed up situation. I guess at least W is here to see my 180's up close. Later, J

[Truegritter]

I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming.

There is a reason but and butt sound exactly the same.

BUT is an excuse you give yourself.

as in

I would be the man I want to be BUT

just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb.

so I can't.

This is about YOU not her.

What if she never throws you a crumb? What if she never wants you back?

Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids?

Tell them what happened. That you would have tried to save your M BUT their mom made you choose to move on.

What do YOU want J?

[jlove]

I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming.

There is a reason but and butt sound exactly the same.

BUT is an excuse you give yourself.

as in

I would be the man I want to be BUT[/color]
Yes, I know. I need your sage advice, Truegrit. I'm becoming the man I want to be. I've decided to start a career I've always wanted in IT and am going to school soon to get certified. My W supports this decision, but it's for ME (and my kids) to do what I want in life.

just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb.

so I can't.

This is about YOU not her.

What if she never throws you a crumb? What if she never wants you back?[color:#FF0000]
Well, I'm prepared to give this my all and wait out her indecision, but when I'm in the place to move on (after school and start of new job) if she's not on board then I leave. That's a ways out though, so the meantime will be tough slogging. I've heard for a month of every year together, so maybe 22 months is a fair timeline. Also, I am a VERY high sexual man, so waiting until I'm 45 to have sex again is something I think about all the time. Have to be honest with myself there, although I refuse to break my marriage vows, just never though of myself as celibate.

Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids?

Tell them what happened. That you would have tried to save your M BUT their mom made you choose to move on.
[/color]
yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...

What do YOU want J?

[color:#FF0000]
I want someone who loves me for me and wants to be with me and share their life in every aspect. I want someone who loves my children unconditionally too, so if it doesn't work out w/ W, that will be my impediment of starting with someone new if it comes to that. Of course, that will be her issue to, but that wouldn't be my problem then. I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered. I want to travel and have fun again by competing in triathlons around the country/world. I want to live for me for a change and show my kids what that means. I want my kids to respect me when they grow up as a role model (and a positive one at that!) I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now. It's also a strain on our kids as neither of us is focused enough on them (I know I can only worry about me and I'm trying). I want to try to save this, even though I know I am only responsible for me. I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now. Thanks TrueGrit!

[Truegritter]

yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...

I guess you missed my sarcasm in pointing out the fact you are letting your W make your choices for you.

DO you want to tell your children that?

DO you want to tell yourself that?

Does it let you off the hook for making a harder choice?

So you can blame her for the demise of your M?

I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered.

How about loving her that way?

This is the sad times right now J. So how would you want to be loved if you were having a difficult time? If you were confused? If you were scared?

If you felt so scared you didn't know how to show your W or want to show your W that you care.

So much that you couldn't even throw her a crumb?

If you had stumbled and needed forgiveness?

I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now.

Then don't feel that way. It is YOUR choice how to react to her. I am not talking about feelings. Those spontaneous impulses that react to stimulus. We can't control feelings and emotions by their very definition.

To quote a poster who used to be here named Coach:

"The prisons are full of people who acted on their feelings and emotions."

A stronger man controls his.

A man with courage and integrity chooses not based on what someone is doing or not doing to him or for him.

He chooses from his values. from his core of who he chooses to be.

So which would you rather your children be witness to?

this

I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now.

Why is it NOT in your best interest right now?

This is the ultimate opportunity for you. You're best interest is staring you in the face.

How is making a choice to act and choose from your own values not in YOUR best interest?

If you leave this up to her you'll be the victim of HER choice.

What is YOUR choice. No buts. No leaving it to timelines or lack of sex, or a day on the calendar:

And especially not to your confused beloved W.

YOU?

WHAT DO YOU WANT J?

[jlove]

yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...

I guess you missed my sarcasm in pointing out the fact you are letting your W make your choices for you.

DO you want to tell your children that?

No. I truly want to try to work it out with her. When/IF I decide to quit, I'll deal with that. right now, I want to work it out, just have thoughts about down the line.

DO you want to tell yourself that?
No, if I leave it'll be my choice at the end of the day.

Does it let you off the hook for making a harder choice?
No, no matter what, I'm 50% here, so i cannot play a victim.

So you can blame her for the demise of your M?
No, if I'm honest it's 50/50 whatever happens to us.

I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered.

How about loving her that way?
She doesn't want that from me now. I'd love to, but my form of love has to be giving her space unconditionally. Because of my primary LL it's hard as hell! I'll be in that space someday, I believe though.

This is the sad times right now J. So how would you want to be loved if you were having a difficult time? If you were confused? If you were scared?

Unconditional love/ \support would be what I'd want and time to figure it out, which I guess is what's she's asking for from me now. Space.

If you felt so scared you didn't know how to show your W or want to show your W that you care.

I'd want to hold her and just hold her. Don't get the feeling she's there (holding/comfort from me) yet though.

So much that you couldn't even throw her a crumb?

i'd pray for strength.

If you had stumbled and needed forgiveness?

I'd try to show that I was worthy of it though my actions.

I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now.

Then don't feel that way. It is YOUR choice how to react to her. I am not talking about feelings. Those spontaneous impulses that react to stimulus. We can't control feelings and emotions by their very definition.

To quote a poster who used to be here named Coach:

"The prisons are full of people who acted on their feelings and emotions."

A stronger man controls his.

A man with courage and integrity chooses not based on what someone is doing or not doing to him or for him.

He chooses from his values. from his core of who he chooses to be.

This, my friend is what I pray and hope I can do and be.

So which would you rather your children be witness to?

this

I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now.

Why is it NOT in your best interest right now?

It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.

This is the ultimate opportunity for you. You're best interest is staring you in the face.

How is making a choice to act and choose from your own values not in YOUR best interest?

If you leave this up to her you'll be the victim of HER choice.

What is YOUR choice. No buts. No leaving it to timelines or lack of sex, or a day on the calendar:

And especially not to your confused beloved W.

YOU?

WHAT DO YOU WANT J?

[Truegritter]

It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.

You may not get any love you can measure for long time or ever.

You're getting there J.

I might borrow your love measurement gauge so I can re-calibrate it.

You are measuring love by what your W gives back to you?

Is there another way maybe to look at it?

Maybe not even to try to measure it or value it?

How would you begin to measure it anyway?

Time?

Words?

Money?

Her responding to you?

________ Fill in the blank?

Your own LL maybe?

You talk about unconditional then you use the word measure?

How do those two concepts mesh together for you?

[jlove]

It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.

You may not get any love you can measure for long time or ever.

You're getting there J.

I might borrow your love measurement gauge so I can re-calibrate it.
Sure, I'll loan it to you anytime.

You are measuring love by what your W gives back to you?

What I perceive as her love for me as in the past behavior.

Is there another way maybe to look at it?
The fact that she is still here? that's what she says is proof she's trying her best right now. maybe if I give her the love she needs, I won't have to worry about measuring her return love?

Maybe not even to try to measure it or value it?
Yes, but if I go there, isn't it all a one way street. Then maybe we reversed our R. I'm the giver and she's the taker now? Didn't work too well with roles reversed.

How would you begin to measure it anyway?
More words of encouragement and physical bonding (hugging, kissing, etc.)

Time?
Time with me, which we send a good bit now, but not talking about us or R.

Words?
words are important as one of my LL.

Money?
No, don't want that from her.

Her responding to you?
Holding me, kissing me, hugging me, cuddling with me, acting like she's excited and happy to be with me.

________ Fill in the blank?

Your own LL maybe?

Yes, Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch

You talk about unconditional then you use the word measure?

How do those two concepts mesh together for you?

They don't really. I cannot love unconditionally then have conditions can I? I want to love her unconditionally but am not there yet obviously. If I were, I wouldn't ask for anything in return.

[jlove]

W just left for work and knows I have anxiety attacks when she works Sat nights as we've had lots of EA issues with OM hanging out there Saturday nights. She told before she left me her planned time to leave and what to expect and that she wasn't expecting OM tonight (she told me and D that's over and I think there's been no contact for 2 weeks). Said she may stay for a drink to unwind, but that's it and did I think that was reasonable. This was all unprompted by me, so I just thanked her for thinking of my feelings and checking in. I didn't approve or complain, just told her thanks for letting me know. I can't read anything into this, I know, but at least she's thinking about it and seems like she's trying to work with me there. She's been texting me when she stays asking me if I mind, but I just tell her thanks for letting me know. Oh well, at least I don't feel like she's acting out at me in spite anymore. Progress on my part of letting her go.