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I've decided to offer the dinner/wedding planning get together. Offer, with no pressure - it's strictly up to him.

Tuesday was a tough one. I'm so glad friends were here Monday evening, or it would have been horrible. As it was, I really didn't hurt over it being V Day.

Maybe Tuesday was a delayed reaction. I was physically drained. I'm so glad I still exercised with friends after work, as that really helped by PMA.

So what do I need to be doing differently? Carefree, happy, engaging with others . . .

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Nic1,

Looks to me like you're doing fine; nothing needs doing at the moment.

You know that as long as OW is in the picture, there's no relationship with you; as the affair must run its course. And that can take awhile; how long is anyone's guess..something must happen to increase either his or her dissatisfaction to the point it drives the affair to break down....yet, anything can happen; this is MLC.

I wouldn't worry about what he says/does; MLC can get quite strange; and stranger as time goes on...as they go deeper into the tunnel.

Continue to detach; and distance from his drama; continuing to act AS IF; GAL...and simply keep the door open and see what happens next.

Limbo is not a fun place to be; but you seem to be doing well in spite of the circumstances.

Quote:
I've decided to offer the dinner/wedding planning get together. Offer, with no pressure - it's strictly up to him.


Keep us posted on what he says/does about this.

Take care.


Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
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Thank you, HB. It's always so good to read your comments. Thank you for spending time here when you wouldn't need to.

My mother was transported to the ER yesterday morning with respiratory failure. I met her there soon after her arrival. Stressful, as one sister and I have POA, and that sister was home ill.

Mom was admitted - low oxygen, low blood pressure, starting pneumonia. Once I knew her diagnosis and my plans, I texted D, S, H (right or wrong, she's been a 'mother' to him for over 25 yrs), and family and friends. The only no responder was H - disappointed me, but not totally surprised. (He was emotionally unavailable for me when my dad struggled with cancer 19 years ago. He admitted to his sister several years ago that he had let me down big time, but he couldn't handle the death of my dad, whom he truly cared about and respected.) An older brother stayed with Mom during the afternoon, as I had to go back to work; I returned at 9, and stayed overnight w her.

At 10 pm, indications were that if bp didn't improve by midnight, they could just let her as she was (organs may begin to fail) or put her in ICU for other meds to increase bp. Tough decision. I consulted w a sister that lives 6 hours away. Mom chose DNR years ago, but into what category did this procedure fall? No matter how old your parents are, no matter how long you've expected this and tried to prepare yourself, the end is still very hard. But she is very tired, and has been waiting for heaven for so long.

At 11:45, her numbers started improving w/out needing the meds. Hard decision averted for the time being. Then a visitor walked in - my H! (H works 2nd shift, and was on his way home.) We visited about her condition. He told me he knew it was hard for me. After a 20 minute visit, he hugged me (both arms) and walked out the door. Don't worry, I'm not reading anything into this. I know the OW is still around, at least as an EA.

I had asked H earlier in the day if he worked Saturday, with no response. I asked him last night if he wanted to come out to the house Sat and discuss wedding plans. He acted as though there was no reason to. What a 180 from 4 days ago.

I asked D if she had told H he should visit the hospital. She said he'd asked about her day, she'd given an update on gma, and H asked for her room number.

Now on what will be a downside - he asked last weekend for the amount he needs to pay to help out with bills this month. I left that in his doorway last night on the way back to the hospital. It's a little higher than last month due to utilities and S book expense. I'm sure he won't be a happy camper over that, but it needed to be done.

I know an MLCer cycles as far as unpredictable behavior - does a "regular" WAS do the same?

D said that sometimes she just wants to ask H what his plans are. I told her that I feel okay just being in limbo now, that time is on my side. She knows about the OW and understands I'm waiting. I've told my close friends the same thing. I know they want me to move on and get over it, but I'm not shutting that door until I have to.

I have a large family, and only 2 sisters know about the S. When I told my out of town sister about H visit, she commented that I'm handling this so much better now, and better than she would have expected. I shared with her a quote from an AntoniaB posting: "there are people in your life all around you, including me, who will restore what he has taken from you. You feel now you have this huge whole in your heart and all this love "gone", and all this trust "gone", but we will all restore this for you AND THEN SOME, because we want to."

My mom commented last fall that she felt so useless, and wondered why God didn't just take her. I wish she could know how much she has helped me, by being a rock for me even during her dementia, broken hip, etc., over the last several months. I try to do evening devotions with her as she gets tucked into bed, then we sing and pray. There have been several nights when this lifted my spirits, and kept me away from an empty house a little longer. Not to mention what the devotions have said to me. She'll never know what she has provided for me, and someday I'll pay it forward in her honor.

I know this is long, but I'll probably be at the hospital again tonight after working late today.

Hugs to everyone.

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Quote:

I know an MLCer cycles as far as unpredictable behavior - does a "regular" WAS do the same?


The behavior is similar; and the same "rules" are followed by the LBS; the only difference is in the level of confusion exhibited by both.

The confusion is much deeper within the MLC'er than it is within the WAS.

There IS a fog there within the WAS; but still, not as deep as what is within the MLC'er.

Those are my thoughts.

Doesn't matter either way; keep doing what you're doing.

I'm really sorry about your mom; and I hope she gets better; sounds like you're having a rough time at the moment.

Focus on her at the moment; she needs you right now.

You are in my thoughts and prayers; for God to give you strength to be there for your mom.

Mothers are special; that's for sure. smile I know yours is dear to your heart.

Keep us posted on how she is.


Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
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Ok, needing some help. Actually, I'm surprised at how calm I am. He even commented that I must have read in a book somewhere that I should be calm, that I wasn't crying or pleading!?!

H today said we need to move forward with filing. I asked if there was any chance we could try to R. In his mind, not much. MC? No, why do something you could read in a book. He's not sure he would be willing to try anything I suggest.

I left a message with office to try for an emergency coaching session - I just had one this afternoon! Oh well, so life goes.

I know it doesn't have to happen right now, but he is off today and tomorrow, and then he works the next 6 days, on a opposite shift from mine. Even if we could talk be fore he goes to work, I wouldn't want to upset him before leaves for work. His job needs his undivided attention.

So, I'm looking for advice on where to go from here. Do I take the seven steps, which he's already seen, and go from there? I'm not sure if the OW is pushing him for this or what. I think it's partly due to me asking him to pay his share of the expenses this month. He said he can't pay half of "mine" and his. Mine? His name is on this mortgage too!

Funny, but as I was talking to him, I thought that however this goes, I'll be all right. There are too many things I see in him right now that bother me. But he still doesn't seem to be himself. He even said, why would you want to be married to me? Why wouldn't you find someone to make you happy?

I have to go back to the hospital to make arrangements for my mom. As my sister said, he drops this on you while your mom is lying in a hospital?

Any and all comments are welcome, and needed!

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Nic,

People with far more expertise than I can probably help you.

The first thing I think is that you shouldn't help him with the divorce process. If he wants one make HIM to the work. Don't help. Make it clear that this isn't what you want and then step back. Many times, they don't have the energy it takes to contact attorney's, fill out paperwork, etc. That doesn't mean he won't though, just don't help it along.

Try not to have any expectations either way.

Sorry you are at this crossroads. I know how hard it is to have a sick mom in the middle of all this mess. I was there too a few years back.

Hang in there, sweetie.


H:44
M:42
D:16, 15, 14
S:12
M:17 years

To thine own self, be true.

Be still and know that I am God.
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Nic1,

First of all you confused him with your behavior; he was expecting crying/begging; and you weren't giving him any ammunition to fight you with.

He was expecting you to actually FIGHT him on this; and you didn't.

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H today said we need to move forward with filing. I asked if there was any chance we could try to R. In his mind, not much. MC? No, why do something you could read in a book. He's not sure he would be willing to try anything I suggest.


If he wants a divorce that badly; let him do the heavy lifting, while you protect yourself financially.

Don't suggest anything else to him; just let him go to do what he thinks he needs to do. MC doesn't work for someone who thinks they don't need any help.....your typical MLC'er thinks they are NOT the one with the problem; they think it's the LBS.

And until that changes; counseling does NO good.

Quote:

I know it doesn't have to happen right now, but he is off today and tomorrow, and then he works the next 6 days, on a opposite shift from mine. Even if we could talk be fore he goes to work, I wouldn't want to upset him before leaves for work. His job needs his undivided attention.


It won't matter what you say, and it won't matter what you do; he will do what he THINKS he needs to do, anyway...so you just have to let him go; but, again protect yourself as necessary.

It may go as far as the actual movement of the divorce going through to open his eyes; OR he may just keep right on going on this path toward total destruction.

Somewhere along the line; it is made clear that they don't get off the hook or out of the marriage that easily.

Now, that last sounded controlling; but the LBS at times such as these, IS called upon to deal out consequences in regards to a MLC'er who wants a divorce; but doesn't want to take responsibility...they want a "free ticket" to a new life; and this is NOT to be.

Now, IF the MLC'er does what is right by the LBS; stronger measures don't need to be taken..but most of the time, the MLC'er will run roughshod over the LBS if allowed..especially, considering the state of mind they are in; they don't care if the LBS survives or not; just so they get what they think they want.

And if it gets to the point you have to legally make him take his responsibility; don't feel bad about it; for every action, there is a reaction; and for every action there is a consequence.

In the state of mind he's in; he would, if he could, leave you with all of the responsibilities; while he has his fun with the OW.


Quote:
I think it's partly due to me asking him to pay his share of the expenses this month. He said he can't pay half of "mine" and his. Mine? His name is on this mortgage too!


He doesn't even CARE that his name is on the mortgage; he's expecting YOU to take care of all of it; and he'll most likely get really angry when he finds that you won't do what he expects you to do...this is how it works the majority of the time. It's because he wants that extra money to play and spend on the OW!

He's quite serious in his intent to leave you holding the bag while he gets to be irresponsible; he thinks it's going to work, but you know that it won't, and it shouldn't. Unfortunately; MLC'er's have been known the "skip" out on their responsibilities; and his share of the household bills is but ONE of his responsibilities he's trying to skip out on.

The OW COULD be pushing him; but that would STILL be HIS fault for caving to this kind of control.

Quote:
Funny, but as I was talking to him, I thought that however this goes, I'll be all right. There are too many things I see in him right now that bother me. But he still doesn't seem to be himself. He even said, why would you want to be married to me? Why wouldn't you find someone to make you happy?


That last is his guilt talking; and if you went and found someone else; as he's suggesting, just as he thinks he's gone and done; it would alleviate his guilt; because then, he gets to further blame you for his weakness, and his problem.

He KNOWS deep inside that he is wrong; he is guilty, and if he can convince you to take a step toward someone else to move on..then he doesn't feel so guilty about himself.

The fact remains; that he has committed, and is STILL committing, a shameful act; adultery is the ultimate betrayal within the marriage...and it is a total breakdown and betrayal of the very vows that bound the two of your together in the beginning.

His guilt is multiplied every time he looks at you; and you don't have to say ONE word to him. He has taken your love and dashed it on the stones; smashed it against the wall.

He SHOULD feel guilty he's the one who had done WRONG!

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I have to go back to the hospital to make arrangements for my mom. As my sister said, he drops this on you while your mom is lying in a hospital?


That's evident that he cares for no one but himself at the moment; their selfishness is deeply entwined within themselves.

He keeps hurting himself worse and worse; as if he continues; there may come a time when the damage becomes TOO much; and if he were to try and return; there may be no place for him with you.

The damage gets bad; but you are the only one who can say enough is enough.

No one else can tell you when you are to stop; that decision is for you and you, alone.


I am REALLY sorry this is happening to you; your mother in bad shape; and all that's happening..your plate is full at the moment.

It'll be ok; you've seen a glimpse of that fact; it is one of the points you reach within the crisis.

Hold strong; you've done nothing wrong; and you know that with a certainty.

Look after your Mother; she is what's important right now; not your MLC spouse.


Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
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Thank you for the responses.

I will not file, unless I have to at some point to protect myself. And he will not run over me during D/settlement if if comes to that.

He hasn't totally shut the door on R - are you saying I still step back and do nothing? This is the first we've talked R in several months. If he is set on D, what harm is there in my bringing it up? If he won't, he won't.

I'm not sure he is MLC, so not sure how deep the fog might be. He still didn't share last night what is "wrong" with me as far as our M is concerned. I really want/need to know that for my benefit, now or for down the road.

He said again last night that there isn't anyone else. I know he talks and texts OW - EA? Beyond that? He's never seen his friendships w OW as EAs. I know that isn't healthy for a marriage, and I know that would have to change before/during R.

Somewhere along the line; it is made clear that they don't get off the hook or out of the marriage that easily.

Now, that last sounded controlling; but the LBS at times such as these, IS called upon to deal out consequences in regards to a MLC'er who wants a divorce; but doesn't want to take responsibility...they want a "free ticket" to a new life; and this is NOT to be.


HB, what are you referring to here?

Quote:
Funny, but as I was talking to him, I thought that however this goes, I'll be all right. There are too many things I see in him right now that bother me. But he still doesn't seem to be himself. He even said, why would you want to be married to me? Why wouldn't you find someone to make you happy?


That last is his guilt talking; and if you went and found someone else; as he's suggesting, just as he thinks he's gone and done; it would alleviate his guilt; because then, he gets to further blame you for his weakness, and his problem.


Maybe, but it could also be his self esteem issues. He has had to change jobs - no fault of his - and I know he saw that as a failure. I didn't, he did. In fact, I told him how proud I was of him for trying something else. Now I think he feels backed into a corner. He's trained for the this last job, something he thought he always wanted to do, and now he's not so happy with it. I'm sure he thinks he'd lose face if he walked away from it. I'm sure he's thought about it, because he told me he's saving his comp time to use if he finds something else, or wants to use it as he looks for another job. A third party has told me H isn't happy in his job, and H told me himself that before he moved out.

He asked me yesterday why I would want him back - I didn't say ILY bec we've been told not to all this time. Does this still apply here? Again, what do I have to lose?

I didn't record all of the convo here - some comes back to me in pieces. I think there is a chance for R, slight though it might be, based on all the discussion yesterday. I want to make the best use of this crack in the door before it slams shut. Yes, I know, just because he files it doesn't mean there's no hope, but . . .

Mom is doing much better. She is stabilizing, and should be moving back to the nursing home next week. Last night she asked, "Where is my (my dad's name)?" Her unconditional love for him is so wonderful. I told her he was resting, I just didn't tell her he's resting with Jesus.

I'm headed back to care for her today, and relieve my brother who has been there all night. Sometimes she needs calming; she can rip out those IVs and monitors in a blink of an eye.

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Nic1

Quote:
Somewhere along the line; it is made clear that they don't get off the hook or out of the marriage that easily.

Now, that last sounded controlling; but the LBS at times such as these, IS called upon to deal out consequences in regards to a MLC'er who wants a divorce; but doesn't want to take responsibility...they want a "free ticket" to a new life; and this is NOT to be.


HB, what are you referring to here?


I am referring to the ones who try to escape every bit of the responsibility that is tied in with the life they have/had with the LBS; in an attempt to leave them holding the bag.

It was more or less explained in the next paragraphs that followed.

There have been many people who have had to legally hold the MLC'er responsible for the debts they try and leave the LBS responsible for...and the anger within the MLC'er was terrible when they found they were going to have to pay for their current debt; because the LBS holds them responsible in court.

Some really thought they could just get a divorce and "skip out" on their responsibilities. But, this cannot be; and it doesn't NEED to happen...this is where the LBS, if possible, needs to deal out certain consequences within these type actions.

It was a clear warning to watch for this, IF it goes that far; the boy scout motto applies here; "Always be prepared".

Prepare for the worst; but hope for the best.

I mean, he's already told you he "cannot" pay half of yours and his; and if that doesn't tell you he's attempting to skip out; I don't know what does. And you need to be prepared for anything to happen.

This is NOT the man you married.

Usually, the request or demand for divorce indicates their need for additional space, or an "ending" that could lead to a new beginning.

The pressures and the pain that results are perceived within them; yet, they blame the one closest to them, the LBS, for what is their problem and they can try a number of things to relieve this pressure and pain within themselves; and divorce is amongst these things.

It is when they attain what they thought they wanted; they find the pain does NOT go away; and they can face a bigger mess than if they'd just left things as they were.

MLC'ers look to "outside" sources to blame for their pain; when, really, they need to look inside; but they don't, initially...

Anyhow, food for thought.


Quote:
Maybe, but it could also be his self esteem issues. He has had to change jobs - no fault of his - and I know he saw that as a failure. I didn't, he did. In fact, I told him how proud I was of him for trying something else. Now I think he feels backed into a corner. He's trained for the this last job, something he thought he always wanted to do, and now he's not so happy with it. I'm sure he thinks he'd lose face if he walked away from it. I'm sure he's thought about it, because he told me he's saving his comp time to use if he finds something else, or wants to use it as he looks for another job. A third party has told me H isn't happy in his job, and H told me himself that before he moved out.


But, you need to remember the corner he's seems to be backed into jobwise, is HIS corner, not yours...the dissatisfaction with their jobs is one of the issues of MLC.

And that doesn't have anything to do with him asking why you won't find someone else to make you happy; these are two separate issues within him.

Quote:
He asked me yesterday why I would want him back - I didn't say ILY bec we've been told not to all this time. Does this still apply here? Again, what do I have to lose?


His question is due to his low self esteem in regards to YOU; and his perceived and very real failure in regards to you.

This, again, IS a much separate issue; one of the issues of his MARRIAGE; he is fishing at the moment to see where you stand.

I got a testing of the waters at one point; but I left it on him to decide....I couldn't make any decisions for him....I just had to leave him be to decide for himself.

I knew all was already lost; and nothing further could be said to help matters; so I said nothing, keeping it in the hands of God to deal with.

The issues of the crisis are not combined....they are separate entities that are faced; one at a time; IF faced at all.

They can face some and not face others; but ALL must be faced to eventually come out whole and healed.

There are aspects of each issue to be worked through; but, again, no two issues were combined.

All I could do was give him space and time to work through them; knowing the answers were within him; and he had to learn to access those.

You can say/do what's comfortable for you; you KNOW him; we don't.

I'm glad your mom is doing better; keep us posted on her. smile


Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
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I got a coaching session scheduled for tomorrow morning. Reading Love Languages today while I sit with Mom, and will reread DR tonight.

I've promised myself and my family that I will stand up for myself financially if we D. He initially thought I should take the house. When I pointed out that I couldn't make the house payment by myself, he suggested I rent out the basement. Really? The basement that isn't finished? I told him in no uncertain terms I would not get "stuck" with the house. Unless he takes it, it needs to sell before I agree to anything.

^^^^this was one of the moments that made me think it was MLC. But he had obviously been planning his move out well in advance like a WAH. Mutual friends think he has gone off the deep end, and are accusing him of living in never never land.

The Alzheimer's seems to be kicking in with my Mom the last 24 hours. She's having difficulty swallowing, leading to aspiration of food. Her lung problems now are due to food she's aspirated, not the pneumonia. This has lead to labored breathing. Her blood sugar is all over the place. She has been very calm for me today, just not herself. Her body has been through a lot this month. She told me before noon that she'd had a enough for the day, and was going to rest.

My niece was scheduled to relieve me tonight, but I'm thinking I might stay all night with her instead.

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