Need Insight IV

[Denver_2010]

I am going to repost some really insightful posts from TrueGritter that I cut and pasted to my journal. These have really helped me understand why I am choosing to Stand for my M. Think that they maybe helpful to you Pickle and maybe some others here. It is very long, but well worth the time IMO.
--------

THE TEMPTATION IN THE FACE OF COMPLETE REJECTION

It is that bargaining process between who you are. YOUR character. VS the EGO or self preservation.

Someone is doing things to you... so naturally you blame them and ask yourself why would I do this for them?

The tempatation is to leave the process...to leave your decision to stand. To leave or try to control your spouse. To attach outcomes to your decision to stand.

This is the step I was missing!

IMO standing is an essential part of the healing process of the LBS. You will constantly questions this throughout. At least I have up to this point.

You will ask yourself questions like "WTF am I doing this for this person?"

In the beginning we want answers.

Why did this happen?

How could they do this?
Who am I?
What do I believe in?
What do my vows mean to me?
Why do I hurt?

And the BIG ONE...

What is it about ME that made them leave?

IMO you don't get answers unless you choose to take the hard road, STAND, and go on the journey.

At first you tend to look at it as a quid pro quo- I am willing to do this for a while until I see some progress. IOW you do it EXPECTING some outcome ...

As time goes on and your expectations aren't met you question again...

It is all part to of the journey. You may even have trouble articulating why you are doing this to other people or yourself.

Then you start to look inside....

Then you start to see who YOU are...

Then you realize that this is part of YOU

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU.

I have been trying to figure out what is the source of
my wanting to escape,
my anxiousness,
my dread
my fear.

And it is the WHAT IF?

the conditions I place on my life.

What IF W doesn't come back THEN?
What IF I stand and W doesn't want M THEN?
What IF I make this decision THEN What?

If I place conditions/exceptions to my life then I compromise my life.

When I took my vows did I mean: I will love you all the days of my life, BUT if you get so scared and lose your way then I won't?

It's those damn BUTs! I am stuck because of BUTs

I am paralyzed because of BUTs.

I know what I need to kill now.

When I get up with fear and anxiousness it's because of the fear of what may happen. I want to escape from that fear. The self doubt that creates it.

If you walk out into the world everyday with your truth then there is only...

What was (and you have learned from it)
What is (Your truth)
What is to come (through living your truth)

There is no regret.

No second guessing.

No doubt.

The only way to fail is to fail yourself.

-----


Several of us, myself included, are moving through this journey and have encountered what I believe is a major sign post.

An essential step.

An understanding.

An awakening of sorts.

I am referring to that moment when one reconciles the dilemna of STANDING.

I have written already about the fact that as we begin this journey we decide to STAND.

We STAND because of what I will call BASE factors

We want our M back

We want our spouse to want us back

We want our spouse to see us as the more desirable option

We want to ease our own pain

We want our own self esteem back

We (may) want to punish spouse by appearing to be morally superior

We want ________ because we get _________ in return.

We STAND on these principles.

We communicate these principles and inevitably we meet with question and resistance.

From family, friends and

from ourselves.

Because it is hard for most people to imagine themselves making this decision.

It is a sacrifice of sorts at this stage.

We are looked on as victims of bad behavior, incongruent behavior to REAL LOVE.

So in that light we begin to feel like victims or that we are being taken advantage of in a sense and are perceived as such by the world. A DOORMAT if you will.

As time goes on and those who care about us begin to be more concerned about our mental and emotional health and question more emphatically why we choose to be a DOORMAT.

Or how long will you be a DOORMAT.

Then you begin to doubt yourself and your decision and the focus goes back to your beloved and now you look on them not with eyes of a scourned lover, a left behind, abandoned spouse, but with real scrutiny.

We begin to question why we would SACRIFICE our own happiness and endure such hardship to regain the love of a person who so obviously is not capable of the same for us or even anyone else.

It is then that the MIRACLE happens.

Through all the pain and seemingly fallow soil a sprout

of green punches through...

This growth is something new and it

is OURS, we planted it, we sowed it

For it is certain our seed was trampled upon many times before

it took root.

But it did take root and

it grows, upwardly reaching, toward the light.

The miracle is the love for yourself.

You are no longer the choices your spouse makes

You are no longer whether your M reconciles or not

You are no longer the failures you see in yourself

You are no longer a victim because only YOU can choose to be one.

Then you a FREE

Free to make the choice to STAND for YOURSELF.

This I believe can only be achieved through the decision to STAND in the first place.

Only through that decision can we experience the pain involved to know completely what it means to be free.

What is means to love.
-------

What I am speaking of really is love.

This is a choice.

As we move through this journey it is a process of self discovery. The LBS starts out with a lot of hurt and pain and self doubt.

I have already written about this transition from standing out of wanting answers and pain- to doing it as a choice for you.

To get to this point you must have detached completely and also to get here some may decide to go black as you have suggested Time.

I did have to do that for a time.

The choice to love is really to put yourself at risk and we have suffered the greatest pain of that risk in the betrayal that was returned.

When I speak of the light going on and off I mean that those are the conditions. ANY conditions. ANY behaviors that we have let play out from our own fears and weaknesses. These are the things we find in OURSELVES that we want to change. That we MUST change to be who we want to be.

Who we want to be is the LIGHT I speak of. It must be constant and it must be consistent. It cannot be contingent on some suffering that cannot be endured. It cannot be contingent on some action or non-action of your spouse.

To love (as we know it) is to suffer until you see what love is. This is so much part of who I am that it cannot be separated.

Love is the absence of suffering. But that absence of suffering comes from your OWN choice not because:

your spouse decided to come back
or decided to be nice to you
Or wasn't mean to you
Or agreed with you
or stopped seeing OP
or ANY F@CKING THING.

It is YOUR choice

That is the light that shines.

That is the miracle of which I speak

If you can get to THAT place then you see that your spouse is on their journey and you love them enough to be committed to their growth.

That growth means you step out of the way. You completely let go with love.

If they call you.

Why would you not answer that call?

Only if you still suffer. If you suffer then you are not there yet.

My W will continue to suffer and be in pain. I will no longer be part of that. I choose rather to be part of the solution.

For me that means love of the most extraordinary variety.

For me that means to be the man I am now becoming.
------------

There is something I need to put down here.

I didn't undertsand that I had come through a major part of my journey until I recently looked back.

We start this journey by deciding on which path to take.

The one that leads us here is covered in briars and brambles. It is the tougher road.

What is it we seek at the end?

In the beginning it is to R our M.

And to heal ourselves.

To understand.

Along the way we do get answers

And we grow and understand.

Now at this point is where we just feel joy at our new found self. Our pain is manageable and we have confidence and courage in ourselves and so we look down the path and keep walking. And now the path is open and the sun shines down on us.

It is this part of the journey that we RECEIVE grace.

I know this has a mystical religious connotation. To me it is the capacity and ability to understand compassion and love.

And in my mind it can be given and received.

Receiving grace is wonderful and it makes us feel like we can go do anything.

When this happened for me I was overcome with joy.

Then I looked back at my W and wondered could she ever get to where I am.

She is really lost, I can't imagine spending my life with someone knowing what I know now, that doesn't get it. That isn't where I am.

What is the upside to me waiting?

Here is where the path diverges again in the wood.

He is where we feel we can choose the path with our new self and live a joyous life. We have finally found the path to happiness.

Was our goal to only come here and heal? To grow and find our new self?

I say to you all thank you for the GRACE you have GIVEN me. I'll be on my way.

Bye MLC/WAS. I know you are just confused and scared and well I really don't think you are capable of being a person I can be with now...

...Now that I am confident and the opposite of the way you made me feel.

Then if I do THAT what makes me any different than what she did to me?

She saw fault in me that she believed could not be changed.

But I am different aren't I?

The temptation in the face of complete rejection?

My spouse continues to reject themselves.

Or

Is this an opportunity for me to live what I believe.

To give the GRACE I have been given.

By leaving my spouse I confirm to them all the doubt they have in themselves, all the doubt they have about love and our M.

I have an opportunity, NOT an obligation.

An opportunity to live the true expression of what I believe it means to love another.

To give grace, to express love with no expectation...

of anything in return.

For me that is standing for my M in the face all doubt.

I know I do not have to say this to her.

My decision and my actions will speak this to her.

Until I have gone long enough so that I am whole.

I don't know how long that is.

I think I will know.

[Sad_but_happy]

It's OK Pickle. I don't feel beat up. I have to say what I feel and stand for what I believe.

You are all correct when you say that I have no idea how I would act if she told me she decided to go with OM after all these positives.

But I set the ultimatum a few months ago with W and I believe that I could not live with OM in W's life. Keep in mind the following:

1. OM is single
2. OM is 32 (W is 39)
3. OM is good looking
4. OM is a professional
5. OM lives close

Now, if you were to ask me if OM would stay with my W long term, I don't believe he would. She is older, has kids, can't have any more, does not work full time (I am not putting her down, but from the prospective of a 32 year old man, I'm sure he does not want to support her (speculation)). And if he does, good luck to them...

But that does not mean he would not visit the candy store. She looks good. And he would partake.

So, all that said, if W chooses OM, she can leave the bedroom, move out, support herself. She will not eat the cake that I purchase and share that cake with OM. She can purchase her own cake or he can purchase it for her (until HE gets sick of it).

They can choke on it for all I care!

I know I have a hard line approach but realize this; I am of the opinion that we are BOTH to blame for our failed marriage. NOT just me. So she DOES NOT have a right to disrespect me, to cheat, to see OM. I admit to my faults but she has them too. This is an even playing field.

Unpopular it may be, but I'm not here to be popular...

[Truegritter]

I don't see her missing me at all while still living together and she's texting and calling OM it seems every spare minute from the phone records. She does not know I've seen the records.

Pickle I would stop this if I were you.

Some may disagree.

If your goal is to detach then this will only cause you pain to read it and know what is happening. You will live it alongside her.

Stop watching her and start living for you. Just live.

Denver I am humbled that you found my words of use to share them here. I believe each word.

It is always amazing to me to read them and remember my journey and how it unfolded.

My friends this takes time if you read what I wrote up there it came aLONG the way.

... and really hard work to ask yourself questions every day.

If you suffer ask yourself why. Ask yourself what YOU control.

[InAPickle]

Grit: "Pickle I would stop this if I were you."

I know, it tortures me to see this stuff.
But I had two reasons.

1. I wanted to compare the volume from month to month, to see if there were any changes.

2. I wanted to have the evidence on an EA in case we got to court and W denied existance of OM.

[Denver_2010]

Grit - I found many of your posts extremely inspiring. And the posts that I copied onto Pickle's thread here have helped me understand why I am not feeling the anger towards my W that I always thought I would in this type of situation. Why I still care about my M despite the emotional pain that my W is putting me through right now. I certainly have not advanced to the good emotional state that you were in when those words came to you, but I think that they have helped me move in that direction. I no longer feel that my 'standing' for M is making me a 'doormat', and that my reasons for standing are true to myself and to the vows that I made when I married my W.

I'm really glad that you don't mind me plagiarizing your words. I don't think that it will be the last time.

[angel61]

Denver,

Thank you for sharing the post from True gritter. I copied and pasted it on my solution journal as well.

I always visit your threads - Pickle, SAH - as somehow I feel like my sitch mirrors yours more, even the way my H acts, in spite of the differences in gender. I l;earn a lot from reding your threads.

[Denver_2010]

Grit's words have helped me understand a lot about what is going on with me. Thanks Angel. I was keeping up with your sitch but lost track of it. Don't think that I've seen it pop up recently.

[Truegritter]

1. I wanted to compare the volume from month to month, to see if there were any changes.

I understand this and when you've had enough you'll stop.

2. I wanted to have the evidence on an EA in case we got to court and W denied existance of OM.

I wouldn't worry about this one. I am not a lawyer so if you have one and he told you to do this...then it's your choice.

FL right?

You don't have to prove it and it won't matter.

I may be wrong but Fl is a no fault state with car accidents and marriages so you can pretty much cause all the damage you want with no responsibility.

I am simpliflying this of course Pickle.

Protect yourself, legally, financially, emotionally and any other way she may hurt you and live your life like she ain't comin' back.

[Denver_2010]

I am a lawyer Pickle and most states are "no fault". Check for yourself with FL to be sure though. If it is no fault, as Grit said, it makes no difference what she is doing now with OM.

I know that it is probably harder for you than for me bc you and your W are still in the same home, but snooping would probably drive me to they asylum if I were doing it. I have absolutely no idea of what is going on bw W and her EA, or whatever, with OM. BC I don't ask her, don't ask SS, and don't snoop. I've heard a few things through the grapevine that would support nothing going on, but I've also heard a few things that would suggest that there is. I really have no idea. It still drives me crazy, but I just don't know what I would gain by snooping. YOu're either going to find bad news, which you have. Or your not going to find anything...which proves NOTHING.

[FellOnBlackDays]

Pickle,
I have to agree with Grit. You might want to stop this approach for now. It sounds like you are getting no where and you are driving yourself crazy in the process. Take some time to work on another plan. Go back to DB and read the parts specifically for you again. Then focus on a different approach. Right now, it sounds like you are spinning your wheels in place and making yourself miserable. Yes, this is much easier to say than do. But, I don't want you to make yourself any worse than you are right now. We want to see you succeed. Work on a new plan and pitch it here. That way you can get another set of "eyes" on your plan before you execute.

Good luck and hang in there!

FOBD