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flowmom #2108107 11/22/10 06:08 PM
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I am working on detaching. Have start to do so last couple of days. She is now miserable again, probably heading towards depression...yes angst. Detach from the drama is good advice and something I need to do better with. I look at Al-Anon, thanks.


M39 W41
Two children
WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09
Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10
No longer piecing...Nov 10
Separation Jan 11
EA ends again Feb 11
Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
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I hope my advice doesn't sound flippant GW. I can only imagine how hard it is. I never had a chance to fight for my M, but in your position I would be consumed by anxiety. (((hugs)))


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp
.: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
flowmom #2108319 11/23/10 08:59 AM
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GW,
Here comes a barrage of info on PEA and the physical/emotional addiction of EA... I wish you luck! Remember, it is tough for her too... After much soul searching I'm discovering whAt made ME of ALL people brt my brain in this state.

A good IC specializing bin addiction was an answer to a prayer for me! No guilt trips, just sorting out the real from the fantasy and looking at it in a detached way... WHAT made me vulnerable? Ultimately, the answer is the same... Develop healthy friendships and bonds, renew interests and career I let slip,away, and get back that playful, flirtatious relation with H. Focusing on that keeps me from dwelling on FANTASY man (or punk, Lol, as youncalled him).

Here goes Article #1:

Life Issues In-Focus - Love addiction

Do you want to shift energetic patterns that hold Codependency and Love Addiction in place?

Love addiction is focused on love as the solution to inner pain, loneliness and emptiness. In love addiction, the relationship or the need for romance is all consuming. Nothing else in life has equal importance.
The Love addict has very intense emotions including anger, fear, hate and 'love' for the other person, and it is this extreme positive or negative intensity that differentiates love addiction from habits where we often also develop a craving for the object of desire.
An addiction usually affects and includes the body, emotions and the mind.
On the physical level, our brain indeed creates a chemical, PEA that creates the thrill and excitement that we experience when we fall in love. When this person drops out of our life the body produces withdrawal symptoms such as shakiness, cramps or loss of appetite.
We all may have experienced such symptoms at the loss of a loved one. In case of love addiction, there is also a desperate need to regain this person or relationship back, accompanied by an increasing sense of guilt or shame about one's 'weakness' to let go of this person.
On an emotional-mental level, being in love makes most people feel good. In case of love addiction, it creates a feeling of being 'on top of the world', feeling drunken by love, being euphoric beyond any sense of reality about the steps necessary to turn the attraction into a workable relationship.
When these feelings fade away, the love addict will do anything to regain this love even at the price to submerge their own personality into the loved one by fully identifying with their interests and needs.
In love addiction, the addict is often obsessed with finding the 'prince or 'princess' that will be THE ONE FOREVER and solve all the problems. Life without that love seems to be meaningless.
The desperate need for finding that person or regaining a lost love can destroy all other parts of life, create chaos, tension and anxieties and threat life itself when chronic grief turns into suicidal thoughts.
Because love addiction gets supported through the ideal of romantic love in movies and songs, it's actually quite difficult to crack the self-delusion that is part of love addiction. All addictions have an element of denial but in case of love addiction it is more severe. Love addicts often don't see the connection between their pain and suffering and the illusionary quality of what they seek as love.
The first step would be to recognise the love addiction as such and then to take the necessary steps to fulfil all those needs that have been delegated to THE ONE. This may require finding out what you can do to be good to yourself, to love yourself and to appreciate the good things in your life.
Another important step is to accept that you may be single for a long time.
Start to develop a wide variety of interests and activities, meet people and make new friends. This will make your company more pleasant, give you practice in developing social skills, and increase your chances of finding a compatible partner to cope with everyday life.
With a good network of friends and acquaintances and exploring new and interesting ways to share your life with them, the emptiness and painful longing will fade away.
As love addiction is so deeply rooted, you may need extra help in understanding the dynamics of love addiction and in shifting the energetic patterns that hold the addiction in place so that you can develop healthy relationship patterns and communication skills.

In my book: Growing through Joy (Ebook version: Beyond suffering) you find a comprehensive description of the different stages of love with its own qualities and challenges to give you a braoder view of the context of codependency. You will also find a hands-on manual in this book on how to strengthen a positive Self

I also offer a distance course on love for a self empowered, healthy and fulfilled life where I shift those energetic patterns through a broad range of healing modalities such as movement, breathing, colour or sound.
Be aware that this course happens within a cycle of themes such as love, money and health. Please, check when the course will be on offer. You will find the actual information about the next available course here

You will find a report about a session on love here


The course will give you insight into the underlying structure of your love addiction and teach you techniques of how to overcome it.
With this work, I am delighted to share forty years of research, work with thousands of people from all over the world and a lifelong experience of Selfgrowth and transformation with you to assist you in overcoming love addiction faster, less painful and more effective.
Distance courses work with wave patterns that reach beyond time and space. Personal presence is not required to fully benefit from it. You can sit comfortably at home and pace the process according to your needs.
During the course, you have a community of peers in the form of a forum and chat with whom you can share your questions, goals and results to deepen and enrich your experience.

The benefits of these courses for you will be to:
Get clear on what you want for your own life
Become aware of cultural patterns of thinking, feeling and behaviour that keep you addicted to love
Gain insight into the underlying structure of love addiction
Let go of life-depleting attitudes and habits that don't serve you any longer
Have your resonance transformed and optimised for the attitudes, thought patterns, feelings and behaviours that will drive you towards a self empowered, healthy and fulfilled life
Learn skills to manage your everyday life
Have professional and peer support to achieve what makes your life fulfilled
You are also very welcome to activate your own self help resources. I offer books, free articles and a free course with suggestions of how to overcome

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The unpalatable truth is that falling in love is, in some ways, indistinguishable from a severe pathology. Behavior changes are reminiscent of psychosis and, biochemically speaking, passionate love closely imitates substance abuse. Appearing in the BBC series Body Hits on December 4, 2002 Dr. John Marsden, the head of the British National Addiction Center, said that love is addictive, akin to cocaine and speed. Sex is a "booby trap", intended to bind the partners long enough to bond.

Using functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI), Andreas Bartels and Semir Zeki of University College in London showed that the same areas of the brain are active when abusing drugs and when in love. The prefrontal cortex - hyperactive in depressed patients - is inactive when besotted. How can this be reconciled with the low levels of serotonin that are the telltale sign of both depression and infatuation - is not known.

Other MRI studies, conducted in 2006-7 by Dr. Lucy Brown, a professor in the department of neurology and neuroscience at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, and her colleagues, revealed that the caudate and the ventral tegmental, brain areas involved in cravings (e.g., for food) and the secretion of dopamine, are lit up in subjects who view photos of their loved ones. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that affects pleasure and motivation. It causes a sensation akin to a substance-induced high.

On August 14, 2007, the New Scientist News Service gave the details of a study originally published in the Journal of Adolescent Health earlier that year. Serge Brand of the Psychiatric University Clinics in Basel, Switzerland, and his colleagues interviewed 113 teenagers (17-year old), 65 of whom reported having fallen in love recently.

The conclusion? The love-struck adolescents slept less, acted more compulsively more often, had "lots of ideas and creative energy", and were more likely to engage in risky behavior, such as reckless driving.

"'We were able to demonstrate that adolescents in early-stage intense romantic love did not differ from patients during a hypomanic stage,' say the researchers. This leads them to conclude that intense romantic love in teenagers is a 'psychopathologically prominent stage'".

But is it erotic lust or is it love that brings about these cerebral upheavals?

As distinct from love, lust is brought on by surges of sex hormones, such as testosterone and estrogen. These induce an indiscriminate scramble for physical gratification. In the brain, the hypothalamus (controls hunger, thirst, and other primordial drives) and the amygdala (the locus of arousal) become active. Attraction transpires once a more-or-less appropriate object is found (with the right body language and speed and tone of voice) and results in a panoply of sleep and eating disorders.

A recent study in the University of Chicago demonstrated that testosterone levels shoot up by one third even during a casual chat with a female stranger. The stronger the hormonal reaction, the more marked the changes in behavior, concluded the authors. This loop may be part of a larger "mating response". In animals, testosterone provokes aggression and recklessness. The hormone's readings in married men and fathers are markedly lower than in single males still "playing the field".

Still, the long-term outcomes of being in love are lustful. Dopamine, heavily secreted while falling in love, triggers the production of testosterone and sexual attraction then kicks in.

Helen Fisher of Rutger University suggests a three-phased model of falling in love. Each stage involves a distinct set of chemicals. The BBC summed it up succinctly and sensationally: "Events occurring in the brain when we are in love have similarities with mental illness".

Moreover, we are attracted to people with the same genetic makeup and smell (pheromones) of our parents. Dr Martha McClintock of the University of Chicago studied feminine attraction to sweaty T-shirts formerly worn by males. The closer the smell resembled her father's, the more attracted and aroused the woman became. Falling in love is, therefore, an exercise in proxy incest and a vindication of Freud's much-maligned Oedipus and Electra complexes.

Writing in the February 2004 issue of the journal NeuroImage, Andreas Bartels of University College London's Wellcome Department of Imaging Neuroscience described identical reactions in the brains of young mothers looking at their babies and in the brains of people looking at their lovers.

"Both romantic and maternal love are highly rewarding experiences that are linked to the perpetuation of the species, and consequently have a closely linked biological function of crucial evolutionary importance" - he told Reuters.

This incestuous backdrop of love was further demonstrated by psychologist David Perrett of the University of St Andrews in Scotland. The subjects in his experiments preferred their own faces - in other words, the composite of their two parents - when computer-morphed into the opposite sex.

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GW...part of this article is tough for me tom apply to my sitch since I've never met or even spoken to my EA (although it certainly was going in that direction)

I was drawn in by a respectful friendship, his emotional availability to me, and my admiration for him as a single Dad. Did not expect a 20 year age difference!!!

But... Here's the rest which may be more applicable to your W...
Helen Fisher seems to be a real expert on this topic... Dr.Danial Amen's book explains how to use supplements to overcome physical withdrawal from PEA.
But, your wife has to realize she is "under the influence" which creates alot of fantasy in her head that's not real ...

In my case, the EA broke a deep dark depression of 3 years, so my IC is also pointing out what a pay off that was for me. DEEP Sh!t !!

Here goes:

Body secretions play a major role in the onslaught of love. In results published in February 2007 in the Journal of Neuroscience, researchers at the University of California at Berkeley demonstrated convincingly that women who sniffed androstadienone, a signaling chemical found in male sweat, saliva, and semen, experienced higher levels of the hormone cortisol. This results in sexual arousal and improved mood. The effect lasted a whopping one hour.

Still, contrary to prevailing misconceptions, love is mostly about negative emotions. As Professor Arthur Aron from State University of New York at Stonybrook has shown, in the first few meetings, people misinterpret certain physical cues and feelings - notably fear and thrill - as (falling in) love. Thus, counterintuitively, anxious people - especially those with the "serotonin transporter" gene - are more sexually active (i.e., fall in love more often).

Obsessive thoughts regarding the Loved One and compulsive acts are also common. Perception is distorted as is cognition. "Love is blind" and the lover easily fails the reality test. Falling in love involves the enhanced secretion of b-Phenylethylamine (PEA, or the "love chemical") in the first 2 to 4 years of the relationship.

This natural drug creates an euphoric high and helps obscure the failings and shortcomings of the potential mate. Such oblivion - perceiving only the spouse's good sides while discarding her bad ones - is a pathology akin to the primitive psychological defense mechanism known as "splitting". Narcissists - patients suffering from the Narcissistic Personality Disorder - also Idealize romantic or intimate partners. A similar cognitive-emotional impairment is common in many mental health conditions.

The activity of a host of neurotransmitters - such as Dopamine, Adrenaline (Norepinephrine), and Serotonin - is heightened (or in the case of Serotonin, lowered) in both paramours. Yet, such irregularities are also associated with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and depression.

It is telling that once attachment is formed and infatuation gives way to a more stable and less exuberant relationship, the levels of these substances return to normal. They are replaced by two hormones (endorphins) which usually play a part in social interactions (including bonding and sex): Oxytocin (the "cuddling chemical") and Vasopressin. Oxytocin facilitates bonding. It is released in the mother during breastfeeding, in the members of the couple when they spend time together - and when they sexually climax. Viagra (sildenafil) seems to facilitate its release, at least in rats.

It seems, therefore, that the distinctions we often make between types of love - motherly love vs. romantic love, for instance - are artificial, as far as human biochemistry goes. As neuroscientist Larry Young’s research with prairie voles at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center at Emory University demonstrates:

"(H)uman love is set off by a “biochemical chain of events” that originally evolved in ancient brain circuits involving mother-child bonding, which is stimulated in mammals by the release of oxytocin during labor, delivery and nursing."

He told the New-York Times ("Anti-Love Drug May Be Ticket to Bliss", January 12, 2009):

“Some of our sexuality has evolved to stimulate that same oxytocin system to create female-male bonds,” Dr. Young said, noting that sexual foreplay and intercourse stimulate the same parts of a woman’s body that are involved in giving birth and nursing. This hormonal hypothesis, which is by no means proven fact, would help explain a couple of differences between humans and less monogamous mammals: females’ desire to have sex even when they are not fertile, and males’ erotic fascination with breasts. More frequent sex and more attention to breasts, Dr. Young said, could help build long-term bonds through a “ cocktail of ancient neuropeptides,” like the oxytocin released during foreplay or orgasm. Researchers have achieved similar results by squirting oxytocin into people’s nostrils..."

Moreover:

"A related hormone, vasopressin, creates urges for bonding and nesting when it is injected in male voles (or naturally activated by sex). After Dr. Young found that male voles with a genetically limited vasopressin response were less likely to find mates, Swedish researchers reported that men with a similar genetic tendency were less likely to get married ... 'If we give an oxytocin blocker to female voles, they become like 95 percent of other mammal species,' Dr. Young said. 'They will not bond no matter how many times they mate with a male or hard how he tries to bond. They mate, it feels really good and they move on if another male comes along. If love is similarly biochemically based, you should in theory be able to suppress it in a similar way.'"

Love, in all its phases and manifestations, is an addiction, probably to the various forms of internally secreted norepinephrine, such as the aforementioned amphetamine-like PEA. Love, in other words, is a form of substance abuse. The withdrawal of romantic love has serious mental health repercussions.

A study conducted by Dr. Kenneth Kendler, professor of psychiatry and director of the Virginia Institute for Psychiatric and Behavioral Genetics, and others, and published in the September 2002 issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, revealed that breakups often lead to depression and anxiety. Other, fMRI-based studies, demonstrated how the insular cortex, in charge of experiencing pain, became active when subjects viewed photos of former loved ones.

Still, love cannot be reduced to its biochemical and electrical components. Love is not tantamount to our bodily processes - rather, it is the way we experience them. Love is how we interpret these flows and ebbs of compounds using a higher-level language. In other words, love is pure poetry.

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This natural drug creates an euphoric high and helps obscure the failings and shortcomings of the potential mate. Such oblivion - perceiving only the spouse's good sides while discarding her bad ones - is a pathology akin to the primitive psychological defense mechanism known as "splitting". Narcissists - patients suffering from the Narcissistic Personality Disorder - also Idealize romantic or intimate partners. A similar cognitive-emotional impairment is common in many mental health conditions.

Pretty provocative stuff!!



The activity of a host of neurotransmitters - such as Dopamine, Adrenaline (Norepinephrine), and Serotonin - is heightened (or in the case of Serotonin, lowered) in both paramours. Yet, such irregularities are also associated with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and depression.

It is telling that once attachment is formed and infatuation gives way to a more stable and less exuberant relationship, the levels of these substances return to normal. They are replaced by two hormones (endorphins) which usually play a part in social interactions (including bonding and sex): Oxytocin (the "cuddling chemical") and Vasopressin. Oxytocin facilitates bonding.

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Hang tight GW...
stay consistent.
let OM give her pressure and ultimatums... It's not that easy to to walk away from a H who is willing to work for M, can be FUN (I know this is hard... ) and rip apart your kid's home.

Especially when she starts to see the REALITY versus FANTASY. The fantasy feeds on the thrill of the I possibility of it all, the anticipation. If she has any sense she ' ll realize that there will still be dirty laundry, grocery shopping, budgeting, and the extra burden of juggling kids with the Ex. Not such an appealing fantasy anymore, eh?

You can only control YOU... Determine you are going to be FINE no matter what!
Be cordial, but don't get dragged into her drama...

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New Life
WOW...thanks...I need to print and read
THOUGH...THINGS HAVE CHANGED

She contacted OM again last night via instant messaging, I caught her, told her I couldn't live with the disrespect and sneaking, that she needed to find a place to live, then she could chat with him all she wants.

From last nights conversations, it is obvious it is an addiction.
She even tells me that all it was these last couple of times is chit/chat...that unlike before, she is opening up emotionally to me, but she can't stop wondering what it would like with him.

So I don't know where we are at. Certainly NOT PIECING...and certainly headed towards Separation...


M39 W41
Two children
WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09
Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10
No longer piecing...Nov 10
Separation Jan 11
EA ends again Feb 11
Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
flowmom #2108349 11/23/10 01:02 PM
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Flow-
Surprisingly, anxiety only hits me when my gut is telling me is contacting OM. See last update. Things going down the toilet fast. With what I've been through and learned and support I've received, I am very proud of calm I remained through all of this. Twice I even told W, stop, don't get angry or mean, I am staying calm and I am the one with every reason to be angry. She agreed and stopped and said I can't believe how calm you are about all this right now.

But what I am is sad and in a state of disbelief. Three weeks ago, we were making plans 3 to 5 years in the future, as well as plans for 3 to 6 months in the future, as well as plans for just 1 day in the future. We were married. We were happy. We both admit that. and now this. It makes me sad and upset that an addiction is what is probably going to kill this. After all this time and all this work, to get it all back, to then just lose it to an addiction she can't fight and can't decide for herself she needs help to overcome.


M39 W41
Two children
WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09
Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10
No longer piecing...Nov 10
Separation Jan 11
EA ends again Feb 11
Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
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Gut,

Sorry about these new developments. I don't have much to offer you b/c I'm struggling with my sitch but I am thinking of you.
gr8


Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12
Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life!
“Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
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