There's no real "script", but there is a very common pattern for most WAS (and for the LBS as well). It's just human nature.
Robx has been there, done that, got the t-shirt (and saved his marriage), so listen well to his advice. Worth more than you could pay most counselors...
She has been diagnosed with severe depression but refuses to seek treatment, and has told me she has no feeling except anger I feel that she is walking all over me with no respect whatsover. She wants me to fund her single fancy free lifestyle, and says that I owe it to her. She knows what buttons to push and is very good at making me feel guilty.
They are all diagnosed with severe depression, yet they refuse treatment and don't mind having the time of their life at someone else's expense. I wouldn't call that severe depression, I call that wanting to be a kid with no responsibilities anymore, heck their behavior is closer to Bi-Polar or even Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) than anything else and I personally don't believe MLC either but that's just me.
Watch for signs like this: - spending a lot more money without worrying about the consequence (ie. debt) - an attitude that they're better than everyone else and they don't care that their action are affecting others - they stop caring as much about their kids, stop spending time with them, etc. - live a guilt free life while trying to displace that guilt on others - crazy mood swings: happy, sad, angry, anxiety attacks and then wash, rinse and repeat - etc. etc. etc.
Holy Cow!! spot on
WOW you sound surprised LOL! You think you're a pioneer in your situation? This isn't MLC, this is a person who has experience beating you up and getting everything they want with no effort and they're bored of you.
Read my advice, if I was spot on about the above description, maybe you seriously consider my advice.
My feeling is that over the years I've simply become too soft, and always helping her, doing anything for her. I've nearly always done more childcare than her on top of running my business, it just isn't attractive. In fact she's told me that I'm too much of a "pleaser" but then again criticising me for making major decisions in the past without her.. the contradictions abound then you start feeling guilty for what you might have done.
On the depression front, what do you do with someone who denies there's a problem. Case in point this morning, "Ohh I feel much better and that a fog has lifted I'm not depressed anymore but don't let it think I've changed my mind about us I don't want you to have any hope of us getting together" Why does she have to keep reinforcing this every day. ?
She will not go to counselling or treatment and you can't force someone. It just feels that there is no hope left whatsoever in this marriage..
She keeps reinforcing this everyday as a test to you.
Women test men, some women test men constantly, it's a subconscious habit, it's a requirement, they need to make sure that they are with the right men, it's hardwired into our brains just like it's hardwired into you as to the type of women you're attracted to, you didn't get to choose the type of woman you wanted to be with, you saw her, she was attractive to you and you followed through on that instinct. She's following through on her testing instinct and you are FAILING her tests.
"Why does she have to keep reinforcing this every day. ?"
To keep you in weak, submissive state, to continue testing you and to continue validating to herself that her actions are correct, you are weak, you aren't the man she needs to be with. The fact that she cheated on you and pursued another man to have sex with proves this. The fact that she still lives with you and you take care of her without getting to have sex with her proves this, the fact that you let her beat you up and abuse you the way she does (what she does to you is abusive), proves this to her.
I'm glad she reinforces this statement to you everyday, it's a good lesson to you, it's also an opportunity for you to try something different to get different results.
"Ohh I feel much better and that a fog has lifted I'm not depressed anymore but don't let it think I've changed my mind about us I don't want you to have any hope of us getting together"
You reply:
"I'm glad you feel so much better and that your fog has lifted and you aren't depressed anymore. Now that you're feeling better you can get a full-time job and find another place to live because I don't want you to live here anymore and don't worry, I have NO HOPE whatsoever of us getting together again because I've decided that I don't want that anymore, I deserve better than this."
Her response: "I can't believe you're so mean, I thought you loved me, how could you treat me this way?" (she doesn't mean it, she's testing you)
YOU: "You're right, I am so mean, but you are mean also. I've decided I don't want to live with a person who is mean to me and you should make the same decision too. I would like you to start looking for a new place immediately, I can help you pack your things, I will bring home boxes this weekend to put your stuff in" (you acknowledging her tests, you signaling to her that you get it and that you won't put up with her crap anymore)
HER: "What happened to you? Where did you learn to talk like this? You're such a horrible person. This doesn't sound like you at all? Who have you been talking too?" (more testing on her part)
YOU: "Well I finally get it now, you don't want to be with me, you haven't for a long time and I finally get it. I'm OK with this because I don't want to be with you anymore either, the way you've been treating me is horrible and it's changed how I feel about you, I don't know how I feel about you anymore, I'm not even sure that I love you anymore either, you've become an alien, I don't know who you are and I can't waste my life on someone who acts the way you do and disrespects me all the time. That's why you need to get your own place because I definitely won't be leaving this home. I won't pay for your place either, you'll need to get a full time job, I don't care if this impacts your university classes, you didn't care that cheating on me would impact our marriage." (this is where you make her feel that you know she is constantly testing you, this is where you make her feel that you know how she feels, you get it, you understand her feelings now, she's lost attraction for you and you acknowledge that by actually letting her know this and by agreeing and telling her that you feel the same way)
HER: "So you're saying right now that you don't love me? Really? Then tell me you don't love, say it, I want to hear it."
YOU: "OK, I don't love you anymore. What's the big deal, it didn't kill you when you said those same words to me. I will be as civil as possible to you because we have kids but not much more than that. You've done too much, you've pushed me too far and you've disrespected me more than I ever expected you to after all of the things I've done for you, this is the way you show gratitude?! You cheat on me, you attempt to hurt me, you disrespect me, you use and abuse me, thank you but no thanks, I'm pretty sure I can find someone else who will treat me better." (you finally showing her and her "feelings" that you get what she's been trying to do, you understand how she feels, regardless if you agree with it or not and that you are ready to let her go and find someone else to replace her)
This type of conversation can go on & on & on for a very long time. Read the examples I've shown above several times, the dialogue will go similar to it, remember that when she talks to you she isn't being sincere, she is testing you, after a while you will be able to gauge this in her facial expressions and body language, she will try to figure you out, what you're up to and she will try many different things to get you to crack under pressure and show you true wussy colors.
My point is this, you acknowledge her testing by knowing that she is doing it and responding calmly to it without being emotional, without crying a river (which is a horrible thing to do in front of a woman who feels no attraction for you), you show strength, you show that your feelings have changed.
If the discussions goes too long, especially the first time because you're new at this and it will probably be easy for you to crack under pressure because she will try everything to get you to admit that you're lying and you're still in love with her so that she has power over you again (another test), you tell her simply:
"Look we can discuss this all day long, it's not going to change a thing or how I feel. I've said my part and I'm done discussing this, that's my decision"
and then you walk away.
If she gets extremely rude towards you aka "crap behavior", you tell her plain and simple that you won't reward her behavior with your attention and that she needs to go somewhere else and give that crap to someone else because you don't want anymore and then you turn your back on her and walk away.
You have been way too soft with her, I'm glad you acknowledge this much, it's time for you to do the opposite. It will be hard, know this, acknowledge it, accept it but deal with it.
Rob
Wow do you know my wife? It's almost like there is a script
Amazing I tried this over facebook when she was away in the US. I told her to get an apartment and come and visit whenever she wants to see the kids. She freaked and started accusing me of wanting to take the kids away from her, that I had a mean streak and she doesn't want to hate me, she then asked who I'd been talking to to fill my head with all that stuff, naturally I backed down.
The problem is I don't want to get sucked into a fight where she threatens to take the kids out of the country. Mind you I very much doubt whether she would because she needs me to look after them. I also thought that getting the apartment would give her space and time to think things through and avoid getting into a complicated battle over the kids.
Then again she doesn't have any money or real friends over here and has no where else to go, which is why I didn't kick her out when she admited to what happened. She constantly tried to justify what she did as a drunken mistake and that it was nothing and has actually had me feeling guilty over giving her a hard time. I'm just worried that coming down hard is going to backfire..
"naturally I backed down."
Huge surprise that you backed down, she's used to bullying you, she is used to making you bend to her will and you did it and she knew exactly who she was dealing with, a wimp, a man who can't stand up to his own wife when she openly disrespects him.
Seriously bro, what's wrong with you? Why do you let her treat you this way? Never mind her actions right now, I'm asking about you, what is it in you that enjoys being beat up by your own wife?
Don't tolerate her threats that she will kidnap the children if that is what she has alluded to. Let her know that you've contacted the customs & passport office. She can't take the kids out of the country without your consent, if necessary call the passport office, tell them their is a dispute over custody and your spouse may try to run away with the kids out of the country, they should flag all of your passports.
There is a catch with this, if you try to travel out of the country with the kids, you will be blocked by the same methods you're employing here.
Quote:
...The problem is I don't want to get sucked into a fight where she threatens to take the kids out of the country. Mind you I very much doubt whether she would because she needs me to look after them. I also thought that getting the apartment would give her space and time to think things through and avoid getting into a complicated battle over the kids.
Problem is she knows you don't like to fight, you're afraid of fighting and she uses this to her advantage. The problem isn't the fighting, in fact if anything she would probably prefer a man that had enough passion inside of him that told him not to settle for crap behavior the way you do. Tell her that you are documenting every single time she threatens you with kidnapping the kids. Tell her you've contacted the customs/passport office and told them there is a dispute over child custody and that she won't be able to take them out of the country without your permission as well. As for getting an apartment for her, all you would be doing is providing her with a place that she can have other men over and she can sleep with them without having to do it at your home. Space & time doesn't ever work when one spouse was caught cheating, all you do is give them more resources to do the same. Why are you afraid of getting into a complicated battle with her over the kids, how complicated is it, you appear to be their main caregiver and she appears to be out most of the time, living the single life, do you think you will get screwed in all of this.
Stop being afraid of her reaction and her actions.
It's time for you to stand up for yourself and start leading your life in the direction it needs to go in. If not for you, set an example for your children to learn from because they're recording all of these events right now regardless how much you're shielding them or attempting to shield them from all of these events. Do you want this to happen to them? If not, man up and show them how to deal with these situations. Taking care of yourself will show them how to take care of themselves.
Don't worry about tomorrow, get off your a$$ now and get involved in your own life.
Then again she doesn't have any money or real friends over here and has no where else to go, which is why I didn't kick her out when she admited to what happened. She constantly tried to justify what she did as a drunken mistake and that it was nothing and has actually had me feeling guilty over giving her a hard time. I'm just worried that coming down hard is going to backfire..
People who blame mistakes on alcohol are usually losers, sorry to say it. Alcohol doesn't make you do things you don't want to do, in fact it's the opposite, it gives you liquid courage and liquid confidence to do the things you always wanted to do but were afraid to do. If she cheated when she was drunk, it's just because she wanted to cheat when she was sober. She did a good job though, she made you feel guilty for getting angry at her for cheating, LOL! Priceless, she cheats but you feel guilty, nice job! Again listen to yourself, you are "worried" that being too hard on her is going to backfire. Really?! What you've done so far hasn't worked for you, what would you have to lose?
Kick her out.
People only realize what they had when they lose it.
She will only realize your loss when she has lost you.
Let her go, have her move out, don't worry about her not having friends, she found enough friends to fool around with and I'm sure she has had more than sexual partner since this has all happened, don't kid yourself. When you have real walking power, the kind of attitude that says to your partner, you cheat on me, you lose me forever, that's when things turn around, that's when you will discover if they really want you or not and if they don't really want you enough to fight hard for you and show you they made a mistake and want to regain your trust again, well then... you really haven't lost anything worthwhile.
Your decision in the end but I'll remind you that what you have done so far hasn't worked at all.
Thanks for the kick in the ass, I'm going to do what needs to be done here.... It is hard but makes total sense. It's very difficult to see things clearly when you are in the situation.
She has been diagnosed with severe depression but refuses to seek treatment, and has told me she has no feeling except anger I feel that she is walking all over me with no respect whatsover. She wants me to fund her single fancy free lifestyle, and says that I owe it to her. She knows what buttons to push and is very good at making me feel guilty.
They are all diagnosed with severe depression, yet they refuse treatment and don't mind having the time of their life at someone else's expense. I wouldn't call that severe depression, I call that wanting to be a kid with no responsibilities anymore, heck their behavior is closer to Bi-Polar or even Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) than anything else and I personally don't believe MLC either but that's just me.
Watch for signs like this:- live a guilt free life while trying to displace that guilt on others - crazy mood swings: happy, sad, angry, anxiety attacks and then wash, rinse and repeat - etc. etc. etc.
My "LBS" because I left him he calls ME the WAW; whatever; but he displays NPD and refuses to take any responsibility for himself; will not counsel though he doesn't appear to be "living a second childhood" as your wife is doing...
It is hard and CRAZYmaking to try to understand WHY they do what they do; they are pulling at straws to "get their way"...We need to set boundaries and say "NO". They can do theier thing on their money and time and stop wasting ours while they are "finding themselves" and neglecting your children and you. You deserve better and "putting your foot down" is needed...good luck Rob.
M -12 Years 1 9 y son (w/me) S-Nov 2009 (and LOVING it; will NEVER go back!) D-soon
You are right freespirit, just it's easier said than done when you love someone so much, even though you know they are cr*apping all over you. You cling on to that tiny hope,
Emotions go all over the place, she's being incredibly nice to me at the moment, hugging and holding, even kissing, it makes me feel like there is hope even without dropping the rope. That's what my heart says but my head says it's just part of the game to her.
Then she asks for pity from me now, how lonely she feels, and how scared she is of failing at college. No acknowledgement of the fact of how she has broken my heart, it's like she doesn't give a damn. How can someone's personality change like that from a loving caring person?
You are right freespirit, just it's easier said than done when you love someone so much, even though you know they are cr*apping all over you. You cling on to that tiny hope,
Emotions go all over the place, she's being incredibly nice to me at the moment, hugging and holding, even kissing, it makes me feel like there is hope even without dropping the rope. That's what my heart says but my head says it's just part of the game to her.
Then she asks for pity from me now, how lonely she feels, and how scared she is of failing at college. No acknowledgement of the fact of how she has broken my heart, it's like she doesn't give a damn. How can someone's personality change like that from a loving caring person?
It is a game, she is playing you, you've done nothing to deserve that type of affection from her in her eyes and as per her own words so watch for something to happen.
It's called being tagged, when a woman leaves a man, cheats on a man, hurts/uses/abuses her man while she's having an affair, moving on, etc. When that man finally starts to stand up for himself and move on, his WAW will usually tag him to keep him in line, make him feel that she changed her mind but in actuality, she's just playing you, keeping you line, controlling you so that she continues to run the show.
The next time she starts with the hugging & kissing, tell her to stop. Tell her you can't give her that anymore because of what she did, you don't feel right being with her anymore. She has to feel that you are letting go.
Plus what kind of message does it send that you would easily cuddle up with her, hug & kiss her after she has cheated on you with another man? Why would you or anyone else settle for scraps? Did she have sex with you? Did she want to? She would have sex with a stranger but not with you? So she can go out and have sex with other men but not her husband? But she can come home and be affectionate and cuddle with you? Doing this rewards her for her actions, she learns nothing, she will fight with you again over something stupid, disrespect you again, cheat on you again.
Then she asks for pity from me now, how lonely she feels, and how scared she is of failing at college. No acknowledgement of the fact of how she has broken my heart, it's like she doesn't give a damn. How can someone's personality change like that from a loving caring person?
No pity, she should have worried about the consequences of what would happen when she cheated on you. Failing at college, she's worried about that but she doesn't worry about the damage she inflicted when she cheated on you? That is my point, her priorities are out of whack, you don't even register, what she did to you doesn't even register as important because you are no longer important to her, you have no value to her. The only way to have value is to let her go, because she still has you if she can come home and cuddle with you. When she doesn't have you to shelter her, and she has to rely on herself to take care of herself because you are no longer there to help her, when you start going out with your friends when she has the kids and you stop doing stuff around the house and when you start hanging out with other women, that's when fear of loss sets in, that's when she will be woken up and motivated to pursue you and fight for the marriage and if she doesn't, well you have really lost anything at that point and actually gained the final truth about your spouse.
I'm totally on your page now, she's just texted me about a nice apartment she has seen, She's going to come back home and want to talk about it, I think ww3 is going to break out in this house tonight.......
