here you go. Pup, check out my last post. Thanks, gr8
Also, this was posted to me when I arrived here, and it's been incredibly helpful. Stay strong.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12 Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life! “Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
No, this is Sandi's list, and we'll never come up with a list that have 100% agreement, from 100% of the folks here.
FTR, tho, since you asked:
And that right there is the problem with deciding to gather intel ("snooping"). If you can handle it, if you can detach yourself to such an extent that you are more "hovering above" the marriage than emotionally in the MIDDLE of it . . . almost like a "game-playing" mode . . . then the information you can gather is invaluable.
However, if it's only going to serve to beat you down, and defeat you, then it's probably best not to do it.
In general, I'm only in favor of snooping when:
- you’re initially trying to confirm an affair;
- as a gathering of evidence for a "cause" legal action of adultery, or to help you make a decision about custody;
- to confirm no-contact, as part of a MUTUALLY-AGREED-UPON transparency plan;
- you are concerned about dissipation of marital assets, or a drug, gambling or alcohol addition, or some other behavior that might prove harmful to the family.
From Thinker, on 7/23/2009:
“In my case, the Red flag was when my W changed the password on her computer and email accounts. I had an innocent reason to go in there one day (household admin) and found I was locked out. Then I noticed the sudden increase in texts, picked up her phone and read the back texts and .... BAM!
I think in my sitch snooping is the only way I could have proceeded. It was painful, and it caused huge fights between us, and yes, my W accused me of violating her trust by snooping as if that is worse than the EA, but without knowing the truth, without having it exposed to both of us, I don't think I would have been able to see what was going on and detach. I think snooping, spying and exposing the EA stopped it from proceeding further and faster.
I now look at it this way. A cheating spouse wants to be able to have an A, while PREVENTING the betrayed spouse from reacting. If your spouse cheats, they will lie about it in an attempt to control you. Since an A directly impacts your M and directly impacts you, it is your right to know what is going on so that you can make your own decisions and react in the way that you choose.”
On snooping “makes you nuts” – I say just the opposite! :
You know, it's funny, but every time I get into one of our frequent "Snooping is bad!" debates around here (I am very pro-intel, as you all know), one of the arguments that the anti-snooping crowd always give is, basically, "It'll make you nuts!"
I contend just the opposite. Us humans are wired to fear -- to "go nuts" -- over the UNKNOWN, not the KNOWN.
Ronald Reagan said, of the Soviets, "Trust -- [i]but verify." it is in that verification that we can either find STRENGTH AND PEACE OF MIND (if nothing is going on), or KNOWLEDGE AND DISCERNMENT about the right course of action (if something is).
For the life of me, I can't see anything wrong with that.
Pro’s and Con’s of “Snooping”:
1. to verify initially whether or not there is infidelity involved in your sitch, so that you can attack it appropriately.
2. to establish evidence/grounds for a possible divorce action if yours is a "fault" state.
3. to gather evidence for a possible custody battle, and to help you make a determination as to whether or not you SHOULD go for custody (is the cheating spouse engaging in risky behavior that would make them a poor parent in their current state).
4. to determine what it is that OM/OW is providing your spouse, so that you may begin to better provide it. To determine what OM/OW is doing that ticks your spouse off, so that you can avoid those behaviors.
5. as an early warning system for any possible financial or legal threats.
6. to monitor what outside pressures are having an affect on your spouse (her parents, her friends, your adult children, etc.).
7. to determine if the affair has gotten physical (medical risk).
8. to verify no-contact once no-contact and transparency have been agreed to as part of reconciliation.
9. to determine the extent to which you believe OM/OW may be a risk to your spouse and/or your family (ex.: abuse, unstable behavior, etc.).
10. to expose deceitful tactics of the cheating spouse which, if unverified, may lead you to make false assumptions and tactical errors (ex.: cheating spouse says they want to go to MC to try to work on reconciling the marriage, but they confide to a BF that they are only doing it to buy time while they squirrel away marital assets to be used on a divorce).
Those are some "pro's" just off the top of my head.
On the "con" side, all I can come up with is:
1. If you don't control your emotions, you may not be able to handle it.
I'm sorry, this whole "snooping is BAD!" thing, to me, is just one of those mantras that gets mindlessly repeated, until it becomes part of the official catechism, without stopping to consider the real merits of it.
"Still at the end of every hard-earned day, people find some reason to believe" -- Bruce Springsteen
No, this is Sandi's list, and we'll never come up with a list that have 100% agreement, from 100% of the folks here.
I really like (and followed) Sandi's list.
I NOW believe in this:
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
1. Get proof.
2. Do either:
2a. Aggressive affair-busting (see Allen A's posts); or
2b. "Set her free" (Robx/Gucci approach)
Those are the only two things I've seen work. If #1 turns up nothing, then proceed to 2b.
I also understand why #10 says not to snoop. I wish #10 had said:
10) Get proof of affair by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Requires detachment and emotional control). Do not react to anything, rather respond with guidance from DBers. Never reveal sources of proof. Aggressively expose/bust affair with guidance from DBers. Then stop snooping.
"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Persevere = happily being patient over a long period of time