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Hope4us Offline OP
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I posted this in Piecing. I was a regular on this board a couple years ago as my W had a year long A. After I finally busted the A, I moved to Piecing. It was a long haul even after the A was busted, but I can say now, here we are, 2 years post A, happier and getting along better than we have for a long time.

Puppy posted a request that I post this on the Infidelity board to try to help all those suffering thru the pain of an unfaithful spouse.

I don't look at the boards much anymore and don't see looking at them on any kind of consistent basis going forward. But if any of you have any questions, post them to this thread and I'll try to respond when I can. Please don't ask me to read your thread and tell you what I think. I just don't have the time, but if you ask a specific question here, I'll try to answer at some point.

Here is my last post on Piecing.

Hey my dear DB friends. It's been a couple months since I even looked at DB and with where W and I are, I'm thinking I won't be looking much at the boards, if at all, going forward.

I kind of have mixed emotions about it. I'd love to hang around and help others thru the most painful experience one can go thru, but at the same time, I know when I read other's threads, it affects me and our recovery.

And this past weekend something happened that tells me we are pretty much recovered.

W and I were out checking out some shops in Amish Country near us and this song came on the radio. W says "hey! this is the song I've wanted you to hear for a long time" and proceeds to turn it up quite loud. Here are the lyrics.....

Little Lion Man:

Weep for yourself, my man,
you'll never be what is in your heart
weep little lion man,
you're not as brave as you were at the start
rate yourself and rake yourself,
take all the courage you have left
wasted on fixing all the problems
that you made in your own head

but it was not your fault but mine
and it was your heart on the line
I really f****d it up this time
didn't I, my dear?
didn't I, my...

tremble for yourself, my man,
you know that you have seen this all before
tremble little lion man,
you'll never settle for any of your scores
your grace is wasted in your face,
your boldness stands alone among the wreck
learn from your mother or else spend your days biting your own neck

but it was not your fault but mine
and it was your heart on the line
I really f****d it up this time
didn't I, my dear?

but it was not your fault but mine
and it was your heart on the line
I really f****d it up this time
didn't I, my dear?
didn't I, my dear?

but it was not your fault but mine
and it was your heart on the line
I really f*****d it up this time
didn't I, my dear?

but it was not your fault but mine
and it was your heart on the line
I really f*****d it up this time
didn't I, my dear?
didn't I, my dear?

And W just stared out the window the whole time it was playing.

And when we got home that night it was pretty passionate....

I could go on, but I should just end with this. To all my friends (you know who you are) who helped me when I was at my lowest points, thank you will never be enough.

To all those still struggling with a wayward spouse, 8 things I've learned....(well, there's more than 8, but....)

1) It's not about you or anything you've done. Waywards will justify and rationalize EVERYTHING to make what they're doing someone elses fault. Own your own chit that contributed to the marriage breakdown, because we all have chit we can work on, but NEVER take responsibility for your spouses A. That's all on them.
2) Never take ANYTHING your wayward spouse says to or about you personally. They really are in an F'd up place.
3) The A MUST end before your marriage has a chance, and rarely does the little bo peep method work.
4) Once the A ends, more compassion and patience than you ever knew were possible will be required to save your marriage.
5) Once the A ends and waywards begin to come out of the fog, they have their own he** to deal with.
6) Do NOT hold it over their heads forever. It only leads to road bumps in your marriage recovery.
7) Your marriage can be saved. Some can not, but some can. And NO ONE will blame you if YOU decide to call it quits if your spouse has cheated on you. Some people can't get over it even with a repentant spouse.
8) If you're one of the lucky ones to save your marriage, don't ever take your spouse for granted. A second chance is a gift. Mine was within days of a divorce being filed, and here we are today talking about retirement and our future grandkids and ML multiple times a week.

That's the gist of it.

Good bye and good luck. I hope things work out the way you want them to.

H4U.


Hope4us

Me - 49, W 49
S22 & S18
Dday 9/4/07
W claims NC 4/7/08
8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
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H4Us, thank you for being here and posting this! It's very inspiring and I appreciate your words of wisdom.

My biggest concern right now is, I believe my WH was having an EA but has now stopped. (Actions support that theory.) However, he is still not ready to commit to the M even though our R is improving. He is still playing the blame game and pointing fingers at me for everything, not accepting responsibility for his own unhappiness.

How am I supposed to work on Piecing with H if he is still unwilling to budge from this position? Is it useless to try until he gets to that point?

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H4U,
Awesome, God Bless.

JAK


You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
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Hi Sunny. Here is my experience.

W ended contact with OM late April 08. Told me she'd "give me" until our youngest graduated from H.S. (this past June), but it would be a LONG time before she'd even talk to me. And she kept to that word. crazy

Finally started talking to me Mid June. Went on a weekend trip, just us in late June. Went to Disney World as a family in early August. Went on another weekend trip in Mid Sept, just me and her. On this trip we got into a R talk and she said she still couldn't even tell me IF she wanted to try to make our marriage work.

Went to Disney World, just me and her, in Oct, where we ML for the first time in over a year. Major pullback after that. Came back and she returned to the couch where she'd been for a year and a half. Another weekend away in Mid Nov where she wouldn't even hold my hand. That Christmas she moved back into the martial bed. That January we ML again on a trip out of town. I think it was about this point where I finally felt she wanted to make the marriage work, but she was still a mess emotionally. Three steps forward, two back. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That April, I finally saw her begin to change on a consistent basis.

It was another 4-5 months before she told me she loved me and didn't know what she was thinking. Yeah, if you're doing the math, that was 16 months after the A ended.

Ok, long post without answering your question. If your H was in an EA, he very well could have thought he was just waiting until he could leave you for her. Now that the A is over, it'll take a while before he has a clue what he wants. I've read that WD takes as long as the A lasted and in my case that was true. And until WD is over, you might as well not expect ANYTHING from him, a commitment least of all.

When you're where you are, there's not much you can do to make him want to work on the marriage. But there's a whole lot you can do to make him NOT want to work on the marriage. Don't pressure him. Pressuring him won't get him to commit but it may make him flee. He's got a whole bunch of chit to work thru and the more you give him good thoughts about your relationship, the sooner he'll come around.

Funny thing. My W said to me a couple weeks ago that she always loved me and she NEVER intended to leave me for OM. I said, "what about those D papers you wanted me to fill out"? and she just looked at me. Like I said in my post above, they really are in a F'd up place. Heck, my W still gets foggy sometimes and the A has been over for two years, so don't worry about the blame shifting.

Patience. It's a marathon, not a sprint. If your R is improving, give it time. If the EA is truly over and there is NO CONTACT, you've got a shot. GAL yourself and invite him to do things with you. If he declines, do them anyway. Draw him in, little by little. If you're living together, let him catch you naked or in your undies and as soon as he sees you, put a towel around yourself. Tease him, slowly, very slowly. You might not think he's noticing, but he is. But don't EXPECT ANYTHING until he's ready. I found out recently that my W kept a whole bunch of little notes I'd leave on her purse before I left for work in the mornings. Just little things like "hope you have a good day", stuff like that. But lay off the "I love you's" He knows it and if you say it repeatedly, it's PRESSURE and that pressure is bad for where you are right now.

Make sense?


Hope4us

Me - 49, W 49
S22 & S18
Dday 9/4/07
W claims NC 4/7/08
8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
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Posts: 1,141
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Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I've been doing a good job of the last part, actually, thanks to Allen here on the boards!!! (And Pup occasionally.) :-)

I just have a big decision next week: we had decided we would decide if he is going to stay in the home or not after giving it some time - and next week we're to have a discussion about that. I'm trying to gain as much perspective as I can in the process.

I don't think the EA lasted very long: a couple of months at most.

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Hope4us Offline OP
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Ok, so EA didn't last long. He's comparing you to her and right now that's not a fair comparison.

I know where you're coming from. If there was any way possible we could have afforded to separate, we would have. I was at a point where I couldn't take the lies any more. But with one son in college and a big mortgage, we couldn't really afford to separate, so I just decided I'd give it my best shot all the while GAL and see what happened. I got to a point where I just decided my marriage was over and I'd try my best and if it didn't work, oh well.

In retrospect, staying in the house together was the best thing we did. How can your spouse see the changes if you're living apart? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everyone should always stay in the same house. It gets terribly draining when you're getting nothing in return, but if you can handle it, it's probably better.

If your H is comparing you to the OW, which I can guarantee he is, you have to be able to show him the new and improved you. If your relationship is improving, why would you want to separate? Don't get me wrong, sometimes a separation can show your spouse just what they're missing. But if you're together, you can get a lot of info that your spouse might not even know they're giving you. Listen to him, really listen. He'll give you clues. I know my W did. I'm a guy and we don't listen very well and there were clues there all along but I didn't HEAR them. Same for her. She didn't HEAR me. But in that time where we were just existing, I'd listen. And a lot of what she said was true. And I made changes. Didn't tell her I was, because talk is cheap, but actions, that's what matters.

Slow and consistent changes are what make the biggest impact, IMHO.

Listen, only you know your H. It might be the right move separating. That's a decision only you can make. I can only give you advise on what worked for me. And for me, staying in the same house was the right one.


Hope4us

Me - 49, W 49
S22 & S18
Dday 9/4/07
W claims NC 4/7/08
8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,141
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Thanks for your perspective. I'm working on a plan with Allen's help that hopefully will provide clarity for me to do the right thing and urge H towards that as well. This helps!

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Hope4us,

Thank you for your advice and help here.

Right now I'm separated from my wife. She had an affair, and over the last month or two I've done everything I can to bust it up. Both my W and the OM say it's over and that they aren't going to communicate any longer. I don't know if I believe it, but I'm trying to move forward as best I can hoping the A really has ended. She still won't commit herself to working on our marriage and I'm not really expecting that out of her at this point...I'm just trying to figure out how much and what kind of contact I should have with her at this time.

My largest concern right now is how to act towards my wife. Do you have any advice on how to interact with them or communicate with them post affair? I've been told over and over to show no pursuing behavior. I only communicate with my wife when she initiates a conversation...I keep my responses short...and I try not to talk much about our relationship or the affair. I just try to have simple friendly conversations about everyday stuff. I'm working on GAL and making improvements in myself, even though she doesn't get much of a chance to see these changes as she doesn't live with me anymore. I'm really making these changes for myself.

You mentioned that you would invite your wife to do things with you now and then. Could that be classified as pursing?

Do you think there is anything wrong with sending her a short note every 2-3 weeks to see how she's doing and say you hope everything is going well?

Did you ever behave in a way that made your wife think that you were just moving on?

Thanks so much for your input!

Last edited by Mike.4545; 08/06/10 10:01 PM.

M: 29, W: 28
Together 8 years, Married 1 (5/16/09)
Bomb (LYBNILWY)4/22/10
Affair discovered 5/3/10, began Jan/Feb 2010
Separated 5/22/10 - Present
Affair exposed 7/7/10
No children
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,782
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Originally Posted By: Mike.4545

You mentioned that you would invite your wife to do things with you now and then. Could that be classified as pursing?

Do you think there is anything wrong with sending her a short note every 2-3 weeks to see how she's doing and say you hope everything is going well?

Did you ever behave in a way that made your wife think that you were just moving on?


Most LBS' are terrified their spouse will think they don't love them anymore so they rationalize themselves silly into thinking contact is good, that pursuing is good, that love notes to touch base are good...

None of this is helpful to your situation.

Once your spouse starts to walk on you the first thing you need to fight for isn't your marriage, its your dignity.

If you let them walk all over you they will LOSE respect for YOU as much as YOU lose for them when they cheat on you nonstop...

I don't know what would drive a spouse away quicker... having a doormat for a partner or a cheater for a partner... it seems to be a coin toss...

In both cases respect goes into the toilet and you are headed nowhere fast...

Speak up for yourself, find your dignity, respect and love yourself first, and then you have a chance of them following you...

You need to let them go in order for them to come back...

No notes to touch base, no love letters, no nothing like that...

They don't need to know you want them back.. that's NOT whats missing... What's missing is their maturity level and chasing them like a teenager isn't going to instill an ounce of adulthood out of them.

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Allen,

I recognize that pursuing behavior is counter productive. I haven't been engaging in it really at all...not since the very beginning of my ordeal...before I sought everyone's advice here.

Anything I communicate to here is void of any "I love you, I miss you, Please come back," etc. It's really the same tone and content of how I would speak to a regular friend about every day stuff.

I don't get afraid that she thinks I don't love her, or care about getting her back anymore. I get afraid that never talking to her is just allowing her to more easily detach from me even more than she already has.

I've heard the Little Bo-Peep analogy on here a number of times...and everyone seems to say that completely leaving someone alone and waiting/hoping for them to come back is dumb. I'm focusing on myself, and my own self improvement...not for her...but for me, so I'm not really sitting around waiting...but I still feel so non-proactive right now.

I'm working with her family to get her into more individual counseling sessions, but aside from that I just give a short friendly response only when SHE contacts me and that's it? It seems so passive.

I feel like I want No-Contact to trigger her curiosity and attachment, or regular contact to create an environment where her feelings for me could actually grow again.

AH...I'm just getting very conflicted between a lot of different tactics that all make sense...but I just don't know which fits my situation the best.

Last edited by Mike.4545; 08/07/10 01:00 AM.

M: 29, W: 28
Together 8 years, Married 1 (5/16/09)
Bomb (LYBNILWY)4/22/10
Affair discovered 5/3/10, began Jan/Feb 2010
Separated 5/22/10 - Present
Affair exposed 7/7/10
No children
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