OT, she is not my children's stepmother. They are not married, and even if they do get married, there is no way that she is "mother" in any sense to them.
I know you like to push my buttons about this, OT.
You also know that my sitch is not just a random ow who got mixed up in things - she was a friend, babysat my kids, went on vacation with us, etc., for more than 14 years. To do what she did, what BOTH of them did, that is irredeemable. How DO you redeem yourself from that?
I forgive (well, maybe I have - I think it may be more of indifference towards her at this point, which is a step in the right direction); doesn't mean that I am going to be friends with them. Doesn't mean that ex's parents have to accept their relationship. They don't agree with their present lifestyle, either. I think it is pretty insensitive and disrespectful for them to push the relationship on others when it is so clear that it goes against their morals, etc. His parents are not harping on him to break up with her - they just don't want to hang out with her at their family events.
If one becomes irredeemable after having an affair, then at least 95% of the people who post to these boards should instead simply file for a quickie divorce.
And, FWIW, I'm not trying to push your buttons. I just think it is very sad for your children to have what functions as part of their extended family (their father, his GF, the other children) in most ways rejected by their grandparents.
As for friendship, I certainly don't think there is reason for you to be friends with either one of them. I certainly wouldn't be if I were you. Yuck.
BTW, I have an aunt who had a falling out with her parents (my grandparents). They remained estranged for 25 years until my grandmother was dying and my aunt was in foreclosure. My aunt then saw my grandmother right before she died. But, my grandfather and aunt then immediately went back on the outs until his death.
This fracture in her family had and continues to have horrible effects on her children. They are pretty messed up by it.
Your children already have to deal with having two separate families, your family and XH's family. Ideally, these two separate families could peacefully coexist, independently, each being a safe space in their lives.
But, right now, no matter what you do, this can't happen for you kids. To have such significant and public infighting, judgment, lack of compassion or forgiveness within XH's family that maintains a painful fracture is not good for them.
Look at it this way, you understand how it is bad for them to be in a place where they have to reject/hate GF to be loyal to you. You don't want them to be in that place. You have tried to help them not be in that place, and I think you've probably been doing a great job with that. But, meanwhile, your ex-in-laws take the kids right back there. They can't be loyal to their grandparents and accept GF at the same time. They either have to reject what amounts to their father's household family or their grandparents. It is messed up, and very sad.
Your ex-in-laws are rejecting their child because he had an affair. Affairs are wrong, certainly. So are lots of other things. They are forgivable. I hope your ex-in-laws are able to extend some compassion to their son and his significant other, sooner rather than later, so that your children don't continue to be put in the middle.
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And, help me out here. I'm really concerned that you used the phrase "push my buttons." I'm not sure what to make of it. It sounds hostile to me, like you think I try to prick you for fun or something. Is this really how you are feeling or am I misreading that?
OT, I think you are essentially correct in what you are saying. As a parent, I can certainly disagree with my kids and not approve of what they do but I would never (at least I hope not) refuse to accept them based on my own moral code of ethics...like I would still love them, just not what they are doing.
Donna...if your ex and this skank have been together for awhile and she has contact with your children while they visit him then she could very well become a stepmother to them. Just because they are not married, does not make her less of a parental figure, less of an influence on them.
I understand she is a skeeze but she was a skeeze to you...if she babysat your children and took good care of them there is most likely a sort of bond there
I don't believe your ex is really saying accept my life you a**holes to his parents
I think he has a new family
his parents are telling him that they will not be at a family event where he and his family are...they are forcing him to chose between his parents and his current family
that is wrong
and in the same situation I would chose my current family as well
his brothers and sisters chose to see him and they allow him to bring his skeeze with... that doesn't mean they agree with what he did it just means they love their brother
it certainly is not your job to convince your inlaws to accept their son so please don't think that that is what I am saying
I am just saying it is messed up that he did what he did and that are continuing to do what they do
Well, I have to say that I felt just the way you do about my Chuck and his maggot. I wanted his family to scorn him, to stand by my kids and I. Just as my kids don't recognize maggot in his life or in theirs. But my kids were older when it happened. They made their stand - good or bad. I feel for them now when they mention how bad their R with their dad is. I am angry with him that he made them choose him and her together or not much of him at all. BUT...
I added to that too. I badmouthed them in the beginning. It coloured my kids' vision of the whole thing for sure. Not that they didn't know. Or that they would have made different choices. But I know that I did this.
None of it is right. None of it is good. But it is what it is. It takes time and a fair amount of healing to be able to say that. I don't even think about him and her much. Wouldn't give you a nickle for either one of them and still hope he dies before one of my kids gets married (TRUE - shoot me now!). But I don't want his family to hate him. They know. They probably have a lot less respect for him. And I am no less in their eyes. They tell me that when they see me. But I had to let it go.
In letting go, you open yourself up to new possibilities. I have a new set of "Not quite In Laws"LOL. Sister in law of Josh's sister called me her "Pseudo Sister In law" the other day. Made me laugh. But made me feel warm & fuzzy too. His family are accepting of me, my kids and all the stigma attached to a "DIVORCEE". LOL. They want their son to be happy. And so it is.
My daughter broke up with her BF 4 months ago. Longest 4 months ever. She still clings to thoughts of them getting back together. They are still friends. Neither has dated anyone else. But if he doesn't even text her back what she wants to hear - she cries. It tears my heart out. But I can't get her to "let go". Good news is she is telling of a new interest. Nice guy. Asking about her through friends. Asked her to hang out. Got her number. I hope she can drop the rope with Andrew and consider this new guy.
You have to let go in order to move forward.
Forget what goes on in HIS new household. Accept that you are not part of that scene unless it involves neglect or abuse of YOUR children. Let them all work out their own issues. Take the time and energy away from them and put it into rebuilding your own new life.
It too me SO long to do this. Doing it has been a God send. I only wish the same for you.
OT, I honestly do appreciate your devil's-advocate stance most of the time, but I think you're reading way too much into the grandparents' actions. You and we don't know the situation and perhaps Donna might elaborate more on it. It is highly conceivable that the grandparents have done the best they can to accept their son's transgressions, extended every courtesy possible, but the son (Donna's ex) might very well be insisting on being obstinate and refusing to repent of his offenses. He could very well be violating the moral boundaries they have established through demands that they accept his new family without a shred of contrition on his part or any acknowledgment of his wrongs. That might very well be the situation, that his parents would love to forgive and forget but the son insists that they act the ignorant fools and forgo any sort of boundaries or value system they have tried to uphold -- it's just as plausible a rationale as the one you seem to be asserting.
It would be entirely different if the ex were approaching his mother and father telling them he knows he has screwed things up royally, going against the values they tried to instill in him, that he truly hurt Donna and wrecked their family, but now he loves this other person and they have forged a new family, flawed as it is -- and for him to appeal to his parents' mercy and to forgive him of his wrong-doings. If the parents weren't able to accept the prodigal after that, THEN you might have an argument. But you can't say one way or the other given what we know.
But more to the point, in these forums, we advocate over and over again, ad nauseum, that we cannot control another person's behaviors. We can only control ourselves, and we try not to concern ourselves with things beyond our own control and certainly beyond our concern. The R between Donna's ex and his parents are none of our business and not something Dona need concern herself with directly. If it is having a deleterious effect on her children, yes, that's unfortunate, and Donna should help them, the children, from her end, but she's not obligated to do anything more. It's out of her hands. Deal with the kids, but move on. It's what everyone in DB has been trying to beat into my head for months and months now.
Donna, if I have mistaken the situation, please feel free to correct me.
Oh, and OT, lest you think I'm beating up on you, I can say that in your advice to Mishka, you have been spot-on. (I've even caught my self thinking, "H*ll, yeah!") I'm just not sure where you're going with this castigation of the parents for the ex being a black sheep in the family.
I never play devil's advocate on these boards. My posts are quite sincere.
My point is that it is very sad for all involved that XH's parents refuse to accept their son, and that this kind of fracture in the family is damaging to Donna's children. It is especially problematic because of the odd living situation which makes the family dynamics even more confusing for the kids.
It is unfortunate that the ex-in-laws remain so judgmental and unforgiving toward their child. Extending compassion, love and acceptance, creating a safe space for their son in their lives, might well result in son sharing his past pain and remorse with them. Their consistent outright rejection leaves no space for reconciliation. This hurts everyone in their family, especially ALL of the children.
P.S. Put it this way, I tell Mish to give Gabe space to be a good guy, to be a better man, to grow, to confront himself... Donna's ex-in-laws give zero such space to their son, their minds and hearts are closed.
P.P.S. Yes, I agree that we can't control others. I wouldn't suggest that Donna try to control her ex-in-laws. Expressing to her ex-in-laws that they needn't reject their son for her sake and that she finds it sad that they haven't reconciled is hardly controlling.
Better yet, I'd suggest that as soon as one of her ex-in-laws begins discussing ANYTHING about their family that Donna simply say: "I care about you, but I cannot be part of your family drama. Please change the topic immediately or I'll need to stop this conversation." Continuing to expose herself to the family drama is nothing but harmful. However, Donna does not seem to be in a place for whatever reason to take this step of setting a clear boundary and letting go of that part of her life.
Anyway, I added this second postscript because I agree entirely that the important thing here is how it affects Donna's kids. We can't help our kids with problems that we don't recognize. Thus it is important to bring out how the ongoing fracture in XH's family hurts her children. It is very sad to see that there is no progress on healing that fracture.
