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Originally Posted By: Coach
you are still trying to make it your way (fixing).

Just ask, "How can I help you?" Then she can answer with exactly what she wants. She gets what she wants and you then are on your way to getting what you want.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
My W seems a little confused by me walking away from T, and even a bit bothered by it because she said she doesn't want to work on the M and I reacted by killing T.


She doesn't want to work on the M so you canceled T and she is confused and bothered. Amazing what happens when you agree with a WAS and drop the rope. poof there goes the tension.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Greek
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Am I stupid for still thinking he will wake up and realize this is all a mistake? Is there anything I can do or should I just give up and move on? I don't want to give up.


You are not stupid, that's #1. You are hoping - and that's a good sign in that you are still forward thinking, as opposed to lost in the past. However, tweak that a bit and remove him from your thoughts of tomorrow. Tomorrow is about YOU and what YOU are going to do with the rest of YOUR life - without him. Face the divorce. It happened, it's awful, you didn't want it... you got it. What will you do with the new life you've just been handed? Pretty exciting when you think of it!
Greek


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Coach
Here's a story I learned here to help me understand my wife better:

You are having a big BBQ at your house on Saturday and you are busy on the grill and your wife is in the kitchen. All the guys come out and stand around you and drink a beer while you do all the grilling. In the kitchen your wife is making a salad while all the other women jump in and finish putting out the rest of the food, filling glasses, and making sure the table is ready. What are the conversations like at the grill vs in the kitchen?

If another man came up to you while you were grilling and started to help how would that go over? If the other women just watched your wife what would she say? It's a insult to a man to help another man without being invited, it's insulting to a woman not to help because there is work to be done. Ever get a dirty look while you are watching a game and your wife is cleaning?

Intuitively the men and women know how to act around each other, it's when our spouse needs help in a way that is best for them we struggle. Women want your support, listen to them and don't try to fix things for them. Men want to be in charge, fix problems, get things done and say as little as possible.

You have to be aware of what she really is telling you. Treating and speaking to your wife like she is a man is counterproductive. Do what works. Be a cat whisperer.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Coach
The 800 pound gorilla isn't really there unless you let it be. If she wants to talk then be available but ler her come to you. Her silence is her problem. You playing and loving on your kids is how you create emotional connection without talking.

She will be attracted to you if you ignore the gorilla and keep being loving, interesting, fun, and confident.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: Resilent
She has mentioned a few times that reconcillation after our dvorce is not out of the question.



TRANSLATION: "Play nice legally, and don't fight me on what I want, and MAYBE I'll consider getting back together with you at some point in the future."

No one's saying to be "hurtful" or "ugly," Resilient. What we ARE saying is, PROTECT YOUR INTERESTS.

Divorce, sadly, is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Look out for you kids first, yourself second, and your wife third -- in that order.

Stay civil and courteous, and let the lawyers handle the details.



Puppy


Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: DaddyLongShanks
Maybe "hates my guts" is one of the stages. I think its a denial thing. It was mentioned that anger allows someone to feel empowered, where they would feel guilt or shame instead. We all know with anger people tear things up.


Yep. All the more reason to use the standard of "What is The Right Thing to Do in This Situation?" instead of "Will This Make Her Angry? How will her Anger Make ME Feel??"

If they're going to hate you anyway, you may as well do THE RIGHT THING!

Puppy


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Originally Posted By: Coach
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How in the world can the WAW want me to stand up to her, when every time I do she gets even more pissed ?
She wants you to be able to stand up to her anger, rage, crying, fits, and emotions. She wants to be able to push and see if you are solid. She wants you to not be emotional (doesn't mean you aren't empathetic, compassionate or listening) when she is so there is balance.

Quote:
How can she want me to fight for her when she just screamed at me the other day to MOVE ON !
She doesn't understand why you would want a woman who is living with another man. She can't believe you are pursuing her. She really wants you to move on so she can respect you.

That's why she says this:
Quote:
" Just being in the same room with you enrages me "
You stand up to her by stating boundaries, protecting yourself and loving the kids. You don't put up with CB.

"I have decided I won't share you with another man. I will talk to my lawyer about how to handle the kids. I will box up the rest of your stuff and put in the garage." Then you go dark. You have fun with the kids. You GAL, you go out, you have fun. You will be watched.


Originally Posted By: coach
If she starts to argue with you then just agree with her. "You are right, I see how you feel. It's not working for me either." That's how you stop the drama.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: futureunknown
When she seeks out your company, that's progress.

When she starts to comment on differences in you, completely unsolicited, that's progress. Act casual about them.

When she flirts with you at all, that's progress. Flirt back, a little, but be coy.

When she starts asking you questions about your life, particularly digging for info about you possibly dating, that's progress. Be vague in response, regardless of the truth.

When she starts to own her part, that's progress. Tell her how much you appreciate her saying it, and own some fault of yours in response. These are healing moments.

When she starts making physical contact with you, completely unsolicited, that's progress. Do not reciprocate at all at first.

When she invites you to do things with her alone, or with her and the kids, that's progress. Accept some, but not all of her invitations.

When she starts acting annoyed or hurt that you're doing fun things with the kids without her, that's progress.

If you are working on yourself, you are not spinning your wheels. If you are trying to "fix" your R, you are spinning your wheels, until she wants to "fix" it too.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Greek
She is involved with another man. Let her go. Let them have each other. Pack her up and move her OUT. Time for her to go.

You're hurt and who wouldn't be but I promise you, when you look back on this time in your life, you'll want to feel proud of how you handled yourself - like a man, not like a boy. Right now, you are acting like a boy who can't live without this cake-eating girl. She is not acting like a woman, btw. More like a teenager lying to her daddy and hiding herself. Women don't do that - girls do. As long as you put up with it, she'll do it.

Step up. Be a man.

Greek


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Originally Posted By: sandi2
As you may know, I was almost a WAW myself. Had my hand on the doorknob. A woman doesn't actually have to leave in order to be the WAW. It is what is in her heart. When her heart is closed to her own H....then she is considered a walk away. She has emotionally left her M.

I have read enough of your posts to see that you are a nice guy. So, this is where it has to stop. Does that surprise you to read this? There is a book that has been suggested to many, many men to read. It's called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". There is a website that tells more. You need to read it. It isn't a shame to be a good person...or even to be nice, but it is a shame to kiss your W's a$$, and sadly...that is what most nice guys do.

Nice guys try to do whatever they can to make the W happy and basically just to keep her off his back. If he has to swallow his pride and choke back a few words in order to keep the peace....then he does. But guess what that makes him? He becomes increasingly passive as time goes by. In the meantime, his W begins to lose respect for him. She can talk down to him....and he takes it, instead of putting her in her place. She bosses him around and he says, "Yes dear" and quietly does what he's told. He will do the housework, babysit while she goes out, give up his friends, anything just to keep her off his case.

Well, guess what? It doesn't work. She continues to get worse! She screams and bullies and throws fits.....and wonders how far she can push him before he'll stand up to her. She wipes her feet on him b/c his behavior says he is a doormat.

Do you think she respects him? No way! He is nothing like the man she fell in love with. She begins to despise "this" person he's become. And sex? She has lost any sexual attraction for him. Why? B/c she has lost all respect for him as a man.

You see, a woman cannot feel sexual attraction for her H if she cannot respect him as a man.

Women are not sexually attracted nor do they respect a passive man. I am not sure how it works, but I think God just wired us that way. I do know that whenever a woman can degrade a man and get away with it....then she has nothing but disgust for him.

So what am I saying? I'm saying that all this stuff you've been doing is not working....that's what I'm saying. She doesn't want you b/c you are pursuing her all the time. She is disrespecting you by having an A. You "asked" her if she wanted you to move out. That was a bad decision, but it's done. Don't go crawling back. If you go back....you walk in as the head of that home and take your rightful place.

Okay, so if you are still with me.....I want you to stop making contacts unless it is regarding your son. (Is this her child?) No email, TM, calls, etc. Whenever you do this...it is pursuing. The more the LBH pursues the WAW...the more he pushes her away. You may not understand how that works....but you don't have to understand. Just believe it! So are you ready to stop the chasing?

Set up a child visitation schedule so that each of you will know who is suppose to do what with him. Do not allow her to use the child as her "tool" to get her way about things. If she is out on the town, don't be at her place babysitting. She needs to wait until it's your turn to keep him, see what I'm saying?

Another good book to read is "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. This is when you really have to man-up and use tough love. She will not come around with you being all "sweet & nice". I know you said she was a good person.....but she has committed adultery. It may not have been a PA yet....but she committed emotional adultery and for a woman....that's greater. With women, emotions are what it's all about.

You on the other hand, will have to keep your emotions under control, especially in front of her. No breaking down and crying. No more telling her that she's hurt your feelings. (I know what you said about trying to open up about things like that, but that needs to wait until the M is on solid ground again.) If you feel the need to cry, you get off by yourself....don't do it in front of her.

A WAW needs to see her H being a strong, confident man who is able to lead his family through the toughest of times. She needs someone who is capable of providing for her and her children. She wants a man who will protect her & her family. These are the things you need to allow to shine through your actions and speech.

You need to think about boundaries and what would be the "deal breaker" in your M. What would you tell her that you couldn't live with? Boundaries are not ultimatums. I'll give you the link to read the excellent post about that. She will need to respect your boundaries or suffer the consequences, so think about what that would be also.

Come to the board before you act on any major decisions b/c your mind is tired and you're hurting emotionally. When a person acts on emotions, it's often the wrong thing to do. You can get great advice here on the board. Your thread was a bit slow at getting started, but sometimes it just takes time. Don't give up and continue to post often.

Here's the thread regarding boundaries:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1859179#Post1859179

Okay, so back off the pursuit. When you do see or speak to your W you keep a calm spirit. You do not act cold to her. Don't confuse what I am telling you. Detaching does not mean to treat her badly or to be cold hearted. It means that you are not chasing her. You are unavailable to her and her needs. You don't go running if her toilet overflows, or if she's had a bad day, or calls you in tears. You are a "busy" man. You don't have time right then to assist her. (BTW, always have a back-up plan to use.)

Never lie to her, but it's not her business to know every detail of your life. You don't have to tell her who you are going to see, what you have been doing, etc.

If you pull away from her...it will draw her closer to you. If you try to rope her in...she will resist and push away.

If she thought you did not want her, it would turn her interest around and she'd forget about OM. But as long as she knows you are drooling at the mouth for her, then she's not interested. Know what I mean?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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