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Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

There's an old Polish proverb which says, "Sometimes a man must first walk with the gophers, before he can fly with the flying squirrels."

Puppy

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Originally Posted By: Robx

there are so many things I could say but in the end,
crisis & fear of loss motivates people to action,
it's a little sad that this is usually the only thing that motivates people to move to action but when you accept reality for what it is, you have to accept human nature for what it is and when you can just accept it instead of trying to rationalize it with your morals and ethics, you will find just as I have found in my own situation that fighting reality moves you backwards, not forwards so just accept reality and use it, reality works because it's reality and everything else isn't


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Coach
See this struggle too much here not to address it.

Too many people here are fighting a emotional battle with their WAS. You have to realise that your logic will not change their feelings whether there is a A or not. Your words won't do it, your telling your WAS how sorry you are, how you will change, rubbing her feet, and pleading. These things reinforce how they already feel about you. To change the way they feel about you, you must change the way they think about you.

How do you do that? Most of us vets give the same advice in different words. The easiest and very productive way of changing the way your WAS thinks about you is to - agree with them (validate), drop the rope (let them go), and GAL (take care of yourself, become interesting). When somone comes in my office and is upset about their account the easiest way for me to calm them down is to agree with them. Now they can't be mad at me because we are on the same side of the table. If I try to tell them why they shouldn't be upset (logic) how are they going to respond?

Visualise the drop the rope analogy. Your WAS is running away and your R is the rope holding them back so the more you pull (pursue) the more they resist. Because the rope is causing emotional pain and you are the source of it. Who is going to be the one to change? (Last time I googled the "runback spouse" I got no hits.) So drop the rope - let them go, try something different, 180, walkaway - whatever you want to call it. Your own emotions (fear) keep you from letting go of the rope. (What if they don't come back?) It's not all in your control people. If you want to be a chick magnet make sure you a facing the right way otherwise you become a chick repellant.

Study up on the dynamics of relationships, marriage, attraction, and affairs. The DBing techniques are not unique to busting a divorce. The DB advice is about healthy relationships and loving yourself.

Understand what and why your WAS feels the way they do and think about how you can change their thinking about you. TEA - thought proceeds emotion and emotion proceeds action. Change your thoughts, open your mind, challenge your beliefs, try something different, look at how you see yourself, and detach. Get ahead of your WAS on the detachment curve and now you can lead.

This board has lots of different personalities and styles. None of us is going to give out advise that is designed to see you fail. We wouldn't be here if we didn't care or understand the struggle you are encountering. The advise is roughly the same regardless of the source. Remember your situation is unique just like everyone else.

Handle it by getting your thoughts squared away. What are my goals? How will I achieve those goals? Then monitor the results. Focus on solutions. I promise that if you get your thoughts in the right place you will be a success.

Cheers


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted By: Glimmerman
She said she doesn't want to be dependent on you.

You said that "SUGGESTS" to you that....

In other words, you haven't asked her why she feels that way. You seemed concerned about responding to her positively. All you really have to do to respond to her positively in conversation right now is say things like "Oh, I see", and "Yes, I understand". Then ask her MORE questions.

WHY does she feel like she has no hope? WHY does she worry about losing family, friends etc? Then listen. At some point, you will ask a question that will get her talking for a long time and she will expound upon WHY she feels the way she does.

Let her talk about stuff for a while, then leave her alone. Talking about it, then space to feel things out is how women process. Men process over a beer. Don't make her process stuff like a man, allow her to do it like a woman. You can help her in that process.


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Originally Posted By: Beary
Not sure where this gets posted but had to say a huge thank you to DVB and my coach for helping me hang in there and turning my marriage around. My husband left 2 years ago in the midst of a midlife crisis, saying he would never be back and with another woman in the picture. I have been fighting for my marriage ever since and have always believed we could make it work and always believed he was worth fighting for. Many, many times I have slipped backwards and felt like giving up, but my coach, my friends and my faith kept me going. Two weeks ago he finally said he wanted to try and make our marriage work again, and is moving back. I know we have a long way to go, but we are both positive and trying, and I really feel that we might just make it this time. I am so very happy.
To all those people out there who are still fighting, have faith and keep following the advice that Michele and her team have given us. It really does work and it's all worth it when it does. Good luck and best wishes x


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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This post is probably on here a dozen times, but it just meant something to me tonight, and I thank Robx for the insight. Came here through the efforts of Piano. Thank you very much.Sorry this one is long, but I find it very useful, especially when I am consumed by pain or obsessing about strategies and how to "fix" my relationship. It's one from Robx.
Everyday users on this forum will post an unknown number of replies & questions dealing with their relationships & marriages and every post boils down to some variation of...

"What should I do? I've read the other threads on this forum but my situation is unique..."

Bottom line, nothing in this world is new anymore. As much as you think your situation is unique, it really is a variation of quite a few common themes that you see posted & replied to regularly in these forums.

You may have heard the term, "WAS script".
Well "script" implies that the WAS (man or woman) will say & do things that are common for a person that wants to leave a relationship/marriage. My personal favorite is "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore". Impressive that with so many unique marital situations that this particular statement re-occurs on a regular basis.

What else is not unique in many of your situations: TIME.
In most if not all of your respective situations, it has taken months and more probably years for your relationships to get to to their current status. It took alot of time to get to where you are, it took alot of time for the damage to accumulate to a point where your spouse made a decision to leave the relationship and you all have to realize that it's going to take a long time to get your relationship back if that's even a possibility.

Guarantees... there are none. Know this. Accept this.
You can do everything right in your current journey of busting your divorce and still not get your spouse back. There are no guarantees in life. No one knows what tomorrow will bring and you can't predict or control the future. But.... (and you know I like big buts) you all have a chance. As long as your heart beats, as long as you have a spring in your step, a smile on your face and the willingness to improve yourself and be the kind of spouse you would want to have (change begins & ends with the person you stare at in the mirror everyday) then you have a chance, a very good chance - it's not a guarantee but it's better than nothing at all.

You all come here looking for a solution. Years of marital problems, personal neglect, spousal neglect along with countless other issues and you all come here looking for a solution because your spouse has told you in one way or another "I've had enough and I don't want this marriage anymore."

This happened to all of you in one way or another and I don't care how "unique" your situation is, your spouse finally communicated to you in person that they wanted to leave you or they had an affair with another person which pretty much indicates the same thing.

So what prompted you to action? Crisis, fear of loss. It was only when you were faced with losing something that you finally decided to act.

Regardless of how "blind" you might have been during the marriage/relationship, you all had some clues & indicators that your spouse wasn't happy. You just thought you would plug along as you have been doing, thinking that your spouses would get out of their funk eventually and just be loving & caring. Maybe some of you felt that the other spouse had to change because they had "changed" into someone you didn't recognize anymore and you weren't going to fix anything until they fixed it, it was their responsibility, their fault, since they are married, they had an obligation to do something as well. Yes this is all very "unique".

Here is also something "unique".... you all want an answer NOW.
How do I do this? How do I respond when they do this? What is my next move? Should I do this and employ this tactic? What do I say when they do this? My personal favorite: How do I GAL when they've moved away and won't even notice my changes?

Yes you're all very "unique".

You all want to fix your relationships now, something that is also "unique". I want results now, I NEED RESULTS NOW! Read those words, think about the times that you yourself may have even said those things or something similar or even just thought about it. Reflect on how needy you've become, how insecure you've become, how unattractive that behavior really is: ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!

I've said it before, consumerism isn't just alive & well at the shopping malls. It's alive & well in your relationships. I want something new, improved, better, faster, stronger, and I want it NOW! It took years to create the problems that you are a part of but you all want a fix now. The microwave isn't fast enough, the car isn't fast enough, high speed internet isn't fast enough, the computer definitely isn't fast enough and there aren't enough hours in the day. Do any of you recognize the recurring theme here? You all want what you want and you all want it NOW!

Well your marriage isn't a microwave dinner and you aren't going to be able to nuke it and make it ready in 30 seconds. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can start doing the real work which takes time, effort, consistency of action (which builds trust) and the willingness to do things that you haven't done before, something that the "old" you wouldn't have done because the "old" you was boring and not willing to adapt & change.

You want to be efficient at cooking dinner, go for it.
You want to be efficient at work, go for it.
You want to be efficient at doing the laundry and taking care of your homes, go for it.

When it comes to your relationships and repairing the damage that took years to build up and destroy your marriages, there is no 30 second nuke button to hit. The repair process takes time, it takes a long time to heal a heart, it takes a long time to rebuild trust, it takes a long time to fix a relationship because it took a long time to break it.

This is a common fact for you all of you. This process will take time, alot of time. Trying to implement a quick fix will actually slow down your progress - that is the only guarantee I can provide to all of you. Trying to force your relationship to heal at a quicker pace will cause more damage. You will inevitably reveal to your spouse how selfish you are and that the only reason you want to recover this relationship is for you and not for them and they will see through that.

The "BS-meter", all of your WAS's are equipped with this piece of equipment, if you're not sincere in your efforts they will be able to tell and it will erase any progress you've made and even set you back a few steps.

Slow is fast, Fast is slow - tattoo this to your foreheads if you can't remember it.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

You all have questions, you all want advice, you all have pain, you all claim to love your spouses but your past actions with them might indicate otherwise, you all want your spouses back - and yet you all claim to have "unique" situations.

Give yourself the time to find those answers to those questions, give yourself time to improve yourself for you first and then your children, don't change for your spouse - that is definitely the wrong thing to do, remember the "BS-meter" that I mentioned previously. Give yourself time to heal from your pain, admit to yourself that if your spouse has hurt you, they may not be able to do anything to rectify that with you, you in the end have the ability to forgive them for what they may have done, that is within your control and that is your choice. Allow them the same courtesy, to heal within their own amount of time, allow them the choice of forgiving you and realize that no one owes you anything.

If you pray to GOD (and if you don't maybe you should but then again, that is YOUR choice), pray for CLARITY so that you have a clear mind that your vision is restored so that you can see clearly enough to know what you want and know what you have to do. Pray for the CONFIDENCE to take action on the choices you make and pray for WISDOM to choose wisely.

Stop praying for a quick fix to your problems, it doesn't exist.
There is no QUICK SOLUTION.

And if you want to truly be "UNIQUE", start by doing things that you normally wouldn't do, start by letting go of the need to control others and realize that you can only control your thoughts & actions. Respect your WAS's decision to leave you, you gave them reason to do so, if you want them back you will need to give them a reason to come back and that doesn't mean calling them and making them feel guilty for their actions. You want the reason they come back to you to be because they want to be with you and you can only promote that kind of feeling in others by making changes in yourself that would allow that kind of environment to exist and know that the changes you make in yourself aren't being done for your spouse, they're being done because you ultimately want to live a great life and you realize how you were living before wasn't great.

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you and especially those of you that feel like doormats in your current situations: Grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit. If you can't respect yourself, how can you expect others to respect you, how can you expect others to love you?

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you that happen to unfortunately be in abusive relationships: Love yourself and respect yourself enough to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you - it is one of the toughest lesson's you will ever learn but also the most rewarding.

I wish all of you "unique" db'ers a good day,
hopefully some of you saw yourselves in the examples listed above and hopefully you have some additional clarity into what you are currently doing


H 51, W 46
no kids
T 22 years
M 17 years
ILBNILWY 2/10
1st D talk 6/10
partial recovery
W files D 5/11
long distance separation 8/11
moving forward on D 10/11
legal separation complete 1/2012
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Originally Posted By: Ready2Change
Women are like crock pots, men are microwaves.

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Originally Posted By: LarsB
Hello All!
I'll try to make this as brief as possible - after reading through a lot of this forum, I've discovered that my situation isn't all that different than a lot of people. Good to not feel so alone!

Married 16 yrs, 2 children - 17 and 12. Good marriage most of the time, lots of good memories, some bad ones, mostly me though...I use to be an angry person.

Past few years I began to sink into a heavy depression and started drinking heavily, emotionally neglecting/taking advantage/not respecting my wife and/or family. She built one hell of a wall around her heart, a wall against me....and because of me. Basically detached herself emotionally from me after trying for YEARS to straighten me out. In all of this, I still loved her dearly but didn't show it. I was a mess.
She gave up finally and became a WAW....from what I've read here that's the best description I could find.

Fast FWD to last year, marriage was falling apart...I was drinking like crazy, numb to everything, depressed....she ran into an old boyfriend at her class reunion, at the time I was drinking and neglecting her the heaviest. They began a one-sided EA...I say one-sided because he's gay - but my wife fell in love with him. Different state, so no PA. I didn't see any signs at all until she flat out told me, and said she felt guilty about it and didn't want to hide it...she wanted our relationship to open up. It was then that everything hit me like a train and I was knocked out of that fog I was in.
She was planning on leaving me she said, the only thing keeping us together was the kids at the time. She was going to leave me this coming summer. I went through ALL the emotions, pain, you name it within the span of a few weeks.
FFWD a bit - I realized what I was doing, I wanted to keep my lovely wife and start this marriage over....I stopped drinking and began getting myself together...did all the wrong things at first; begged her, cried, puppydog following her around the house, smothered her, etc. MAN I didn everything a man is NOT supposed to do which kept pushing her further away!
She decided that she wasn't actually in love with this friend of hers, but that he was there when I wasn't - he listened, talked, did everything I was supposed to be doing - which she REAALLY needed at the time. True. I don't know if he ever knew how my wife felt, I've asked and she's told me that it was all her and that he knew nothing. I spied a bit, and that seems to be true....wanted to learn trust, I stopped spying and refuse to do it again - at this point I have no reason to.

Anyway, FFWD to today - I'm a changed person in many different ways, I have stopped smothering her and given her space, stopped 'doting' on her, showed her real love and support, etc. etc. etc. got a life somewhat, lost 25 lbs, got all 'muscular', started my art career up again and I'm much like the man she married in all ways...except that I'm much more 'learned' about relationships....women....marriage...love...trust...anything and everything I have read over the months, and she has said to me 'I don't even know you now! lol!' - and in a good way. We don't talk about the marriage right now, at her request, she has worked on her anger and resentment towards me and it's better...but still there, I can tell sometimes....we get along better than we ever have...we laugh, my moods are almost always 100% awesome which always rubs off on here when we talk, have coffee, etc. we hug each other, nice kisses - quick on the lips or cheek, but sex and intimacy almost non-existent right now, but I don't push it because it makes her angry when I do....she has said 'let me come to you' in the past, and that's what I'm doing. I flirt a little, give her compliments and say dirty stuff to here now and then which gets a cute 'look' from her...I'm showing patience like NEVER before, many many actions and fewer words, and it seems she's SLOWLY opening up to me again and it's only been about 5-6 months since I freaked out, broke down, cried and begged....up until that time, we had frequent and great sex even when she was pissed and me and even when she thought she was in love with someone else. I'm guessing those breakdowns turned her off to me physically, sexually? but that's just from reading a little bit and a guess - I'm not an expert at this! I've caught her recently though, looking at me and my muscles when I'm walking around the house shirtless, hugging me a 'little' tighter,....we look into each other's eyes when we talk now, something we didn't do before. And finally, the other day she went out of town with her mother...and emailed me a reminder to pick up our son...and in it she said 'Have a Super Day! I love you!!!' which is something I haven't heard or she has written to me in a LONG time! My heart stopped and I was in a trance all day...I wanted more of course, but I held back and just tried to be a friend that day. She'll go from that though, to seeming a bit cold to me. Sort of one step FWD, one step back.
Any suggestions? Am I on the right track? I love this woman to death and will work and wait as long as I have to for her to decide on what she wants - one way or another. It seems like since I've started respecting her wishes, giving her space and listening to her when she comes to me to talk, leaving her alone when she wants to be left alone...things like that have started to make a difference. This based on the fact that months ago she was AFRAID of me, didn't trust me AT ALL, wanted to leave, was so angry at me I couldn't hug or talk to her AT ALL and we came inches from splitting up, and holy crap I don't blame her. I was bad.
The 'today' me is more me than has ever been me and I love me! Me is awesome.
Something else - I've halted or reduced I should say - texting and emails to maybe 1 or 2 a day, and almost always something funny or just something nice to her. I guess I have this overwhelming fear that if I'm not there AGAIN, like I wasn't last summer, then things will go backwards....so I'm a bit leary of halting all communication, acting like I've moved on, etc. like I've read here in this forum. I'll do whatever it takes though - I'm just not a good actor ha!
Wrong? Right? I appreciate all help and suggestions!
Am I on the right for love again?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Originally Posted By: SOTR
But where I fell far short was in not meeting the emotional needs she had in the way SHE needed them , as opposed to what I thought she needed.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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