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Gardener--

I think many of us have been in that dark, frightening place. Mine was on Thanksgiving. And I also found this to be true!:
Quote:
I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.

Enjoyed your thoughts on inner child/adult interactions. There's a whole section--with a slightly different perspective than I've seen before--in the Susan Anderson book, chapter on Rage. Since you're obviously well-versed on the concept, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this chapter/exercise. When you get to it.

You're a wise man.


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Hello Gardener,

Just waving at you from afar.

poet

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I like the idea of using music to create new triggers. Music really affects my mindset and I think it might be time to use that to my advantage. Thanks Coach smile

If it hasn't already been done it would be cool to have a LBS playlist thread...with the focus on music that has a message of positivity/hope.

I think it's great that you can vent here Gardener. So many men don't give themselves any outlet to express their emotions.


me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4
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Bill,

Originally Posted By: Gardener

Still in counseling, but made no emergency call to IC; I was very, very distraught emotionally but knew I could -and had to - work, to wrestle this through on my own to make sure it would never come back. It was a night, for sure.
Emotional/adaptive child "victim" wound up submitting to rational, functional adult "victor", as I just put to gnosis in the .alt. It was a night for giving the demons full reign and then reigning their asses in. In subsequent IC, session, IC thought the duality of the struggle guaranteed that the stronger, resilient adult would prevail. I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.


I call bullshit on the remark. It sounds great, the inner child struggle, the adult taking control. A triumph. But only works because you're still here.

I'm really glad you made it through that difficult time. I've had that experience where the pain of living almost trumped the joy, love and responsibility of parenting, being there for myself, family and friends. To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.

So, Bill. Bullshit. If alcohol is involved, even worse. Suicide happens, near suicide happens because the individual doesn't have the skills, the tools to deal with the emotional crisis. Or the support, or knowing there's support, the right support to survive, recover and deal with agony and issues.

I'd toss that counselor who's an hour or so away and find someone closer who doesn't reaffirm what you want to hear. And if the 'natural' path isn't working, opt for the pharmaceutical. I know I'd rather not be regulated by prescription drugs.. but they do their job. And it works because I'm doing the other work.. learning how to be healthy, how to have boundaries, how to live and forgive myself.

We all have demons. We all have skeletons in our closets. We all have fears. You came too close.

Get the skills, not the jargon, to deal with the issues. Drop the romantic notion that you had 16 years of the best life had to offer. It was great. It broke. It didn't get fixed.

Live the life you walk, not what you see in the clouds.

*hugs*

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^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

EVERYTHING Gypsy said!

And Gypsy, please, when you see him again in real life... SMACK HIM UPSIDE THE HEAD!!!! because I'm too far to do it myself.


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Gardener, I just want to share that I started taking antidepressants today. If you knew me and my super-duper-alternative-health-foody background since birth, you'd know that that is a huge step for me. I went through years of (needless?) agonizing depression in my 20s and I promised myself I'd never allow that again. But I'm not satisfied that I'm doing enough to get out of the pit that being abandoned has left me in. So I'm taking the drugs as an experiment to see if it helps me to start DOING and truly work on GAL. 'Cause I haven't been great at it so far. Part of what gives me hope is that I've seen friends start antidepressants and that just gave them the boost they needed to start taking concrete steps to make their lives better.

Anyway, sorry for talking about myself in your thread. I don't know the background to the previous posts, but it sounds like your friends are concerned about you, therefore so am I. It breaks my heart see how desperate our forum friends like mb28 and DestinyUnknown have become, and that's partly what motivates me to try something new.


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Kathleen,
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I call bullshit on the remark. It sounds great, the inner child struggle, the adult taking control. A triumph. But only works because you're still here.
Thank you for a very concerned response and for our talk today. I understand and appreciate your points and value our nascent friendship more than you know, more than I've told you. And I feel bad having upset you.
As I've mentioned, I became acquainted with and interested in the entire inner child concept since being introduced to John Bradshaw's work in the early 80's. He was a pioneer in concepts that are now mainstream. The bullshit is your right to call and I appreciate the bluntness.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
But only works because you're still here.
That's exactly right, in my view. It was the only night like that that I've ever experienced in my life and in retrospect, I value having gone through what I did that night and where and how I wound up in the end.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I'm really glad you made it through that difficult time. I've had that experience where the pain of living almost trumped the joy, love and responsibility of parenting, being there for myself, family and friends. To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.
I didn't know you've had a similar experience. When? What was your approach?
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
So, Bill. Bullshit.
Okay. Got it the first time. wink
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
If alcohol is involved, even worse.
I don't drink alcohol.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Suicide happens, near suicide happens because the individual doesn't have the skills, the tools to deal with the emotional crisis. Or the support, or knowing there's support, the right support to survive, recover and deal with agony and issues.
I understand. I found I possessed skills and tools I wasn't aware of during that hellish experience.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
I'd toss that counselor who's an hour or so away and find someone closer who doesn't reaffirm what you want to hear. And if the 'natural' path isn't working, opt for the pharmaceutical. I know I'd rather not be regulated by prescription drugs.. but they do their job. And it works because I'm doing the other work.. learning how to be healthy, how to have boundaries, how to live and forgive myself.
Not to worry: like I said this afternoon I am switching counselors for several reasons, not the least of which is the one you mention. I was still on meds at that point, and no longer am and am doing fine.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Get the skills, not the jargon, to deal with the issues.
I hope I misunderstand you here: I am working - and have been working - hard, like we all have or are still. I've made real progress. Am I done? No. Do I have more to work on, to deal with and come to terms with? Oh, yes, you betcha.
Am I just spouting jargon? No, I am not.
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
Drop the romantic notion that you had 16 years of the best life had to offer. It was great. It broke. It didn't get fixed.
It's not a notion. I lived it. It was great. It clearly did break, but I didn't know it; I wasn't told. That's why it's called the (unexpected) Bomb.

You're so much further along in this process than I am, Kathleen, and as such, you've generously shared with me a lot of valuable insights, perspectives, common sense and acceptance. These have helped me, to be sure. But I still hurt. I don't know how one drops hurt. So I keep working, and falling back and moving forward, and falling down and getting up. In the real world, my real world. Not in the clouds.

My bottom line for this post after already having talked to you today is
Originally Posted By: Gypsy
To be honest, I am angry and hurt to the core to your approach to this. And it's really not my place to harangue. Aside from our friendship, it triggers something within my own experience.
to assure you that I regret -and would never - knowingly or purposefully anger you or hurt you to the core my friend. Perhaps I shared too much. And, besides: from what you've told me about Radical Forgiveness, don't you owe me an apology for angering you and hurting you to the core? whistle laugh

Thank you, (((Kathleen))).


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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Gnosis, if you'll accept a verbal on-the-phone smack upside the head as just as good, consider it already done. wink


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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hmama,
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
Gardener--

I think many of us have been in that dark, frightening place. Mine was on Thanksgiving. And I also found this to be true!:
Quote:
I was in depths of anguish and despair, but a stronger part of me was rally pi$$ed that I was there - or allowing myself to go there.

Enjoyed your thoughts on inner child/adult interactions. There's a whole section--with a slightly different perspective than I've seen before--in the Susan Anderson book, chapter on Rage. Since you're obviously well-versed on the concept, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this chapter/exercise. When you get to it.
Thanks, mama. Sorry you were there, too. Proud of your strength and inner resolve in overcoming it, too. The Holidays sure don't help such despair, do they? The Susan Anderson book is next. Working through Susan Elliott right now. I'll let you know when I'm on Susan Anderson and get to that section.
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
You're a wise man.
Oh, ppffftt! crazy But thank you (the line forms to the left with those who disagree with that assessment) laugh

Peace,

Last edited by Gardener; 03/20/10 03:35 AM.

Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


poet #1962797 03/20/10 03:36 AM
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Hi, poet,
Originally Posted By: poet
Hello Gardener,

Just waving at you from afar.

poet
Right back atcha. Thank you.


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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